Team-BHP - The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas (Post 1157161)

Got this twice!

I unlock the Safari, get in and crank!

No lights, no power,nothing! BLANK!

Try unlocking/locking via remote: no use.

I wait few minutes and things are back to normal but all gets reset (head unit settings etc)

Whats happening?

Get the battery checked for charge and the battery terminals also, would suggest to remove the terminals and fix them back again firmly.

Sometimes a thin layer forms at the contacts due to oxidation causing improper discharge of current.

This thread has gone quite of-late. Hope Tata's have managed to iron out the teething troubles with the 2.2 range.

As you all must be knowing i own a 2004 TCIC safari..My problem in it is that the plastic parts around the front pole and the quarter panel inside and some other places near the centre A/C clips are developing cracks and my quarter panel plastic just behind the baby seats are completely separated into two..
Is this due to the vibration or are they weak enough...?
I asked the company people as to how much would the quarter panel plastic cost me and he said it was 2800rs+TAX..eventhough i replace that, it might happen once again which i don't want..

CAN DAMPING BE A SOLUTION..?(just a clue)

As most Safari Owners are aware that I was coordinating with TM over the hiccup issue and was communicating with them using PM's.

The results of those followup are a newly designed part, the 90mm EGR Valve assembly.

The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread-compareo_n.jpg

Old vs New EGR valve on the engine

For people not aware and non-Safari owners this are the events:

- rb2399 reported this problem in August and aburagohain, smsrini and many other owers also reported it slowly, I was already facing it from earlier but kept it under observation for it to become prominent.

- I started collecting all the symptoms and investigating into this, took feedback from all owners through PM, consolidated the data.

- Compiled a mail and sent it to TM marking to some "key" people, reporting all symptoms, temporary solution and probable solution. Provided information to TM on some similar issues reported by other Auto manufacturers around the globe.

- The Program Manager(PM) for 2.2l engine from TATA ERC, pune, spoke to me over phone and understood the issue in detail. They were not able to replicate this problem in their test vehicles, regional customer support also (CS) worked with me on this, I had all the right contacts now.

- PM suggested we provide them with Safari's facing this problem so that they can diagnose and correct it.

- I again coordinated with the members for volunteers for demonstrating this problem, unfortunately most moved over to SystemD as that was a suggested short term solution.

- Kingshukt in pune, Abu(most effected) and me in bangalore gave our contacts for the demo, TM ERC decided to check directly with us in Bangalore and send one person each from their Quality and Engine teams.

- Dates were decided and the TM ERC team flew over to bangalore with their diagnostic equipment along with one person locally from CS and the T.A.S.S Manager.

- The team was quite cooperative and they checked the engine, plugged the diagnostic tool and took a trial with me and then with Abu. Asked if we had any other problems, I also reported the "Krrrr" noise problem which was also reported here. Also Kingshuk was more keen on the Krrr problem.

- TM dispatched this new part with Job card description "Vehicle Jerk and Hesitation problem" specifically for my Safari. The T.A.S.S were clueless on how and why this is getting replaced, this part costs whooping 18k.

This new part has resolved the "Krrr" noise problem which cannot be heard now, for the hiccup a few days of running would tell (I guess I am a test mule till then :) )

For people who have confirmed me on the PM's for this problem, please have patience as your vehicle registration details are provided and available with TM and therefore I would expect the replacement to happen within a few weeks after this.

I am optimistically considering these issues as closed( Getting some good vibes). Thank you everyone for your efforts, especially Abu and kingshuk for being available for Demo.

Apart from this I also got my clutch pressure measured, you can check out details in my ownership thread on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu (Post 997111)

:D I am no wizard, but studying the people reporting it and not reporting it and matching it with my own usage made me deduce the environment under which these symptoms occur.

Dont worry its not a show stopper, carry on with your journey. I'll reiterate the symptoms and break-fix actions as per my knowledge.

Symptoms:

- Hiccups, flat power delivery, gasps at around 1300-1400 rpm and speeds around 20-25kmph.
- Mostly in 2nd gear(for me) and primarily during upshift from 1st to 2nd at turns/ pickup.
- Engine has not reached its optimum operating temperature (cold engine)
- Small puffs of black smoke are accompanied with the above.

Current Diagnosis:

- Soot formation over the EGR Valve
- Could be also related to ECU mapping for Cold engine which will make the engine run rich till warm. (dont have OBD tools, can't diagnose further on this aspect)

Current remedy(IMO):

- Highway runs will clear the carbon deposits/ soot
- In the city run the engine in 2nd gear between 3.0-3.5k RPM for apprx 500mtrs or more (symptoms will not reoccur for few days atleast).

I am still on it and will appreciate if anyone going on a T.A.S.S visit asks them to plugin the OBD tool and check for these error codes P0400, P0401 P0402 P0403 P0404 P0405 P0406 P0407 P0408.

Infact any error code feedback will be appreciated. EGR is tricky to troubleshoot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu (Post 1161065)

The T.A.S.S were clueless on how and why this is getting replaced, this part costs whooping 18k.

It is imported . not sure about the 18K price however.

TM and almost all auto manufacturers price their spare parts differently.

Keeping my finger crossed as regards replacement on our vehicles also. clap:

thats gr8 effort dadu

i'm also facing a similar issue in my 3.0 and i believe its similar issue.

whenever i change to 1st to 2nd gear and floor the pedal,the beast misses a beat and then move on.

and i'm able to reproduce the issue mostly when the beast has not still reached the optimum temperature which actually takes 10-15 mins at least.

so shall i go and tell them to change the EGR valve or some other diagnostic.

please advise as i'm going for servicing tomorrow morning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 (Post 1161095)

Get it recorded on the Job card, involve the North CS into this formally. Part's extremely costly and I doubt if they will replace FOC, if not under warranty.

It was a team effort, without the feedback, this wasnt possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingshukt (Post 1161083)

It is imported . not sure about the 18K price however.

Keeping my finger crossed as regards replacement on our vehicles also.

Trust me, I saw the label on the sparepart box and it was close to 19k rounded, on the warranty bill they gave for this its 2k less(Checked just now).

Intention is to rectify the issue with all concerned, i'll keep a tab on it till done. let's wait and watch.

I have the Krr krr which is annoying sometimes and with input from TBHP has asked TASS to check the EGR valve. I guess when I go for my 30k service I should ask them to get it changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas (Post 1161288)

I have the Krr krr which is annoying sometimes and with input from TBHP has asked TASS to check the EGR valve. I guess when I go for my 30k service I should ask them to get it changed.

Hi
I used to have a problem that the engine used to gasp & hesitate momentarilty when I move up for 1st - 2nd & 2nd - 3rd. But this slowly went off with religious usage of System-D.

I get a annoying "Krrr" sound in the cabin when ever the Turbo Kicks In till Kick-Out. Please confirm that this is the sound that you are mentioning above??? I was getting this since Day 1. I have spoken about it during delivery and subsequently during most of the TASS visits. But they have dismissed it as being normal. I haven't been able to try out any other 2.2 but am hoping to discuss it during the Bangalore meet. However I drive My Brother-In-Laws 3.0 Dicor and don't find any issue there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu (Post 1161065)

Asked if we had any other problems, I also reported the "Krrrr" noise problem which was also reported here. Also Kingshuk was more keen on the Krrr problem.[/indent]

- TM dispatched this new part with Job card description "Vehicle Jerk and Hesitation problem" specifically for my Safari. The T.A.S.S were clueless on how and why this is getting replaced, this part costs whooping 18k.

This new part has resolved the "Krrr" noise problem which cannot be heard now, for the hiccup a few days of running would tell (I guess I am a test mule till then :) )

Dear Dadu,

Any further feedback regarding the same? My truck will be going in for the 20K Gearbox Oil Change on Monday, so maybe I can take up this case with the TASS Workshop Manager.

Cheers
Mahesh

Almost happy ending to a long standing issue that Dadu has been relentlessly tracking, good to know that the krr noise is taken care of by the new egr's, waiting to hear on the gasp disappearing too and mark it as happily lived ever after.. :)

Very well done Dadu, thanks to you, so many of the Safari owners can now enjoy their vehicles even more!

We need to appreciate the Tatamotors engineers' efforts too, their willingness to look into and solve the issues is a thing to let all know about, these are some of the good points probably.

Cheers to the solution, thanks again to Dadu, you deserve it buddy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by aburagohain (Post 1162049)

Almost happy ending to a long standing issue that Dadu has been relentlessly tracking, good to know that the krr noise is taken care of by the new egr's, waiting to hear on the gasp disappearing too and mark it as happily lived ever after.. :)

Very well done Dadu, thanks to you, so many of the Safari owners can now enjoy their vehicles even more!

We need to appreciate the Tatamotors engineers' efforts too, their willingness to look into and solve the issues is a thing to let all know about, these are some of the good points probably.

Cheers to the solution, thanks again to Dadu, you deserve it buddy!

I will post my feedback by the end of this month, by then I should be able to detect the gasps, if they come again, with the Safari run over a 1000km.

The efforts of the TM CS and ERC should not go understated here, they were quite patient and supportive in understanding this. The PM for the 2.2 engine in TM ERC sounded committed to resolve any issues that the engine might have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maheshmenon (Post 1161875)

I get a annoying "Krrr" sound in the cabin when ever the Turbo Kicks In till Kick-Out. Please confirm that this is the sound that you are mentioning above??? I was getting this since Day 1. I have spoken about it during delivery and subsequently during most of the TASS visits. But they have dismissed it as being normal. I haven't been able to try out any other 2.2 but am hoping to discuss it during the Bangalore meet. However I drive My Brother-In-Laws 3.0 Dicor and don't find any issue there.

Cheers
Mahesh

The same. :deadhorse

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu (Post 1162063)

The newer ones done have the krr krr ? And the EGR they got for you is just a new piece or a modded one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by maheshmenon (Post 1161875)

Hi
I used to have a problem that the engine used to gasp & hesitate momentarilty when I move up for 1st - 2nd & 2nd - 3rd. But this slowly went off with religious usage of System-D.

You can use continuously for 3months and then every quarter, it wont appear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maheshmenon (Post 1161875)

Yes, its the same, its in all 2.2l. Dont know about the ones produced in 2009, havent tried them.

This is all the feedback I can give as of now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas (Post 1162469)

The newer ones done have the krr krr ? And the EGR they got for you is just a new piece or a modded one?

I dont know if the newer ones dont have it, unless we can test a Jan/Feb batch or I see the EGR on the engine. I dont even know if this was a modded one for me or they have adopted this part in the newer batches.

I can only say that no modded/new part goes into production without proper testing by ERC and the noise does not cause any harm to the engine as its only a pneumatic exhaust gas valve creating the noise.

@dadu

Hi bro - I'm getting the delivery of my Ex 4x4 in a day or two. I've checked the VIN number of my vehicle and it is a January 2009 make. How can I make out whether the EGR valve that you guys are talking about is the modified version or the unchanged version? Should I take some photographs of the same and send it across/paste on this thread for you to make out!?!

Well friends I have June 2008 manufactured Safari , It shows gasp issue as I mentioned earlier but I do not hear any Krr Krr sound at all , In fact I have never heard any krr sound till now.