Humming noise from rear left in '98 Cielo GLX after tyre change

VSG12777 · 24th November 2008, 17:58

Hi guys

We have a 1998 Cielo GLX model which hasn't even done 30k kms till now. It is just below 30k. Our usage is not that high since it's used as a 2nd car and for 1 or 2 long distance trips in a year. It's been trouble-free so far and the mileage has been ok at about 8.5 kmpl.

Well recently, I got the full set of tyres changed (all 5 including spare) to 195/60/13 Good Year Eagle Venturas (imported tubeless). Cost 3k per tyre. The ride is good and turns are much more stable than the 175/70/13 stock size. We decided not to spend on 14 inch alloys for this car, since the resale value of the car is already very low.

Yesterday when I was driving at a constant 70kmph in 5th gear on a very smooth road, the stereo was off and I noticed a humming / whining sound from the rear left of the car. I am not sure whether this is tyre noise or something else. It increases when I go faster.

Also the car is ultra jumpy / bouncy. It's as if the shocks are not there almost. Every small bump / pothole gives such a big jerk inside the cabin. The Santro XO Ltd Edition 2007 model we have is now lovely compared to this car. The Cielo had the softer ride out of these 2 cars and now it is just the opposite. The car was recently serviced fully (1 month back) with everything checked and fixed, tubes / hoses replaced, oil changed, brake fluid topped up and so on.

But the ride now is so bumpy that nobody in the house wants to travel in this car, especially if the route we're taking is a little bad.

Look forward to your advice / views / suggestions on the above.

Thanks and warm regards,
Venkat

vikram_d · 24th November 2008, 18:17

The hunning/whining sound that you mention seems to be an indication of worn wheel bearings. A simple test to check this. Jack up the car at the rear left and spin the wheel by hand. If it rotates freely then no issue. But if it feels hard or stops rotating quickly then definitely a wheel bearing issue.

For the bumpy ride check the tyre pressure. Might be too high. I never trust the pressure gauges used by tyre shops. On one occasion 28 psi on their gauge turned out to 38 psi on mine.

Edit: The only other thing to check for the bumpy ride is the suspension. But since you didn't have this problem before the tyre change I don't think that this is the culprit.

VSG12777 · 24th November 2008, 18:23

Thanks Vikram. I shall check this out during the week. And yes, I shall check the tyre pressure too. I generally set it at around 30-32 at the petrol pump when we fill up. It's been good all along, but all of a sudden it's very very bumpy.

I shall check this out. Thanks. Any other things to check for regarding the bumpy ride ?

Warm regards,
Venkat

ankitahuja · 25th November 2008, 00:34

The humming sound is more or less a wheel bearing problem.

Since you have got lower profile tyres now (60 against 70), you might feel the bumps more than before too. Check and set the tyre pressure accordingly.

And it's not a bad idea to get the suspension checked again.

VSG12777 · 25th November 2008, 11:47

Ankitahuja

Thanks for the info. I shall have the suspension and shocks checked out as well, along with tyre pressure settings. And yes - the wheel bearings are definitely gonna be checked.

As for the lower 195/60/13 tyres compared to the original 175/70/13 tyres, would the difference be so much ? I got the Santro's tyres changed from the stock 155/80/13 to Good Year Eagle NCT 3 imported tubeless 185/60/13. But the ride is still very good and road grip and stability at high & low speeds are much improved.

Will have these checked and post back guys. Thanks once again.

Warm regards,
Venkat

narayan · 25th November 2008, 12:45

bearing issue quite surely VSG- but at 30k ? quite early for bearing to wear out

vikram_d · 25th November 2008, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by narayan

bearing issue quite surely VSG- but at 30k ? quite early for bearing to wear out

Yes but it's also a 10 year old car.

esteem_lover · 25th November 2008, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by narayan

bearing issue quite surely VSG- but at 30k ? quite early for bearing to wear out

The car is old, could happen if not run often too. @VSG, where do you service your car ?

VSG12777 · 18th December 2008, 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

The car is old, could happen if not run often too. @VSG, where do you service your car ?

Hi John

Sorry for such a delayed reply to your question. Forgot all about this thread that I created. The car has been done up by My TVS Saidapet (Vahana Motors) and the bill was 26k. But lots of stuff has been done. Car is almost as good as new now.

Here's what was done:

Price / Item (Qty)

3500.00 - RH Drive Shaft (1)
1600.00 - LH Mirror (1)
1500.00 - Rear wheel bearings (1 set)

4000.00 - Headlights (full set with assembly as reflectors were dull - Qty 2)
(same Philips Rally 130/100 bulbs installed / cutout, relay, extra wiring already done 2 months back)

750.00 - Tierod end (front I think - 1 set)
1200.00 - Lower arm ball joint (1 set)
350.00 - Alternator belt (1)
550.00 - A/C belt (1)
750.00 - A/C idler bearing (1)
2600.00 - Front shock absorber (1)
1200.00 - Shock absorber mounting (1)
1100.00 - Ignition coil (1)

Labour charges:

950.00 - Front suspension O/H done
650.00 - Rear wheel bearings replaced
350.00 - R/H driveshaft R&R
300.00 - Both headlights replaced
300.00 - L/H mirror painting done
1700.00 - Front bumper painting done
300.00 - Wheel alignment done

TOTAL: INR 26,037.50

We managed to get a discount and finish it off for 25k finally.

Car is superb now and ride is very smooth and stable. Finally the boat like cushy ride is back like before - all due to the front shocks. What a world of difference !!

Slight rattling sounds remain, but only on bumps and potholes and generally bad roads. On nice highways it is pretty quiet. Touched 100kmph on that Tidel Park road in Chennai and it was lovely.

Need to get the rear right Pioneer 6x9 speaker checked out since it's got some vibration. Similar thing had happened in the Santro 440w 4-way 6x9 Pioneer within 6 months of installation and only dust had gone in (since the speakers get exposed when the rear hatch is opened), causing vibration with the sound. The speaker was cleaned / serviced and returned to me in 2 days and it's been good since then. The Cielo's Pioneer system was installed in 2001 and hasn't given me any trouble.

Head unit is a Pioneer tape/tuner unit (then top of the line) KEH-P8015
Front - Pioneer 2x250w tweeters near the sunvisors at the corners, 2x110w small speakers for the dashboard slots
Rear - 2x350w (I think) 6x9 3-way Pioneer speakers
Trunk - Pioneer 12-CD changer unit which also plays CDRW discs

Totally cost me around 22k in 2001.

Warm regards,
Venkat

headers · 19th December 2008, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSG12777

Need to get the rear right Pioneer 6x9 speaker checked out since it's got some vibration.

I'm surprised the speakers vibrate due to dust! They vibrate if the screws are not tightened properly and pasted!

Your car definitely needs all 4 shocks replaced to ensure a bounce free ride!

Also, wheel bearings need to be changed as suggested!

vikram_d · 19th December 2008, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by headers

I'm surprised the speakers vibrate due to dust!

If there are small or medium sized dust particles on the speaker cone, you can hear a distorted sound. It will sound like a torn paper cone speaker. I had this problem with he speakers in my previous car. Solution remove speaker grill and vacuum the speaker gently.

VSG12777 · 19th December 2008, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by headers

I'm surprised the speakers vibrate due to dust! They vibrate if the screws are not tightened properly and pasted!

Your car definitely needs all 4 shocks replaced to ensure a bounce free ride!

Also, wheel bearings need to be changed as suggested!

Hey Vikram (Headers)

The wheel bearings (rear) have been replaced, as you can see from the items in the bill, which I included in the previous post:

1500.00 - Rear wheel bearings (1 set)

Ride is very nice now, by the way

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikram_d

If there are small or medium sized dust particles on the speaker cone, you can hear a distorted sound. It will sound like a torn paper cone speaker. I had this problem with he speakers in my previous car. Solution remove speaker grill and vacuum the speaker gently.

Vikram_d:

You got it right man. This is exactly what happened to my Santro Pioneer 6x9s. Since when the hatch is opened, the speakers get exposed to dust, they accumulate dust faster than sedans, where the rear windshield and rear windows (which are closed most of the time) protect the rear speakers on the parcel shelf. The Pioneer dealer serviced the speakers and fully cleaned them. Haven't had the problem since.

Since you've mentioned that vacuuming can be done, I am tempted to try this out myself. But how do I remove the speaker grill ? Don't want to damage the speakers by doing any of this

If it's gonna save me 500 bucks (servicing charges) and fuel cost for travelling to and from the Pioneer place twice, I seriously don't mind giving this a shot !!

Warm regards,
Venkat

vikram_d · 19th December 2008, 12:21

For removing the grill the simplest way to do is to remove the 4 screws that will be holding the clamping ring down and the grill will be out.

headers · 19th December 2008, 13:46

@ VSG: Please find out how many sets of bearings are in your car's rear wheels. cos unless you change all of them the humming noise will remain!

@vikram_d: Interesting signature - Care to explain that PM??

VSG12777 · 29th December 2008, 14:47

Hey just wanted to provide an update guys.

* The rear right Pioneer 300W 3-way 6x9 speaker had some problem and it was vibrating. Indeed, there was a small hole in the paper cone and the sound was due to that. Got the rear set replaced with a Pioneer 420W 4-way 6x9 pair for Rs. 2500/- and new wiring for both the speakers too. Sound is excellent now with lovely bass. No vibration. Rs. 200/- for the wiring. Guy from GP Rd shop came home to do this.

* Got a nice exhaust tip / muffler tip or whatever, installed as the exhaust pipe was a plain dark brown thing looking ugly. It's got a slight sporty note too, but only audible from outside the car. This cost around 450 bucks.

* Got new Gold coloured wheel covers for the Cielo at the GP Rd shop for 600 bucks (set of 4). Good quality, made in Taiwan stuff. The guy had the same original Cielo design wheel caps for 450 bucks (made in Delhi) but I wasn't happy with the clamps on the wheel covers. Looked like they could be easily damaged / removed. Decided to go for this different design. Clamps were far better and 1 person could not fit the wheel covers. 2 people had to do it for each wheel.

Car looks nice now and rides superbly on the 195/60/13 tyres. Pictures attached for you all to see !!

Warm regards,
Venkat

24th November 2008, 17:58	#1
VSG12777 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CHENNAI Posts: 208 Thanked: 41 Times	Humming noise from rear left in '98 Cielo GLX after tyre change Hi guys We have a 1998 Cielo GLX model which hasn't even done 30k kms till now. It is just below 30k. Our usage is not that high since it's used as a 2nd car and for 1 or 2 long distance trips in a year. It's been trouble-free so far and the mileage has been ok at about 8.5 kmpl. Well recently, I got the full set of tyres changed (all 5 including spare) to 195/60/13 Good Year Eagle Venturas (imported tubeless). Cost 3k per tyre. The ride is good and turns are much more stable than the 175/70/13 stock size. We decided not to spend on 14 inch alloys for this car, since the resale value of the car is already very low. Yesterday when I was driving at a constant 70kmph in 5th gear on a very smooth road, the stereo was off and I noticed a humming / whining sound from the rear left of the car. I am not sure whether this is tyre noise or something else. It increases when I go faster. Also the car is ultra jumpy / bouncy. It's as if the shocks are not there almost. Every small bump / pothole gives such a big jerk inside the cabin. The Santro XO Ltd Edition 2007 model we have is now lovely compared to this car. The Cielo had the softer ride out of these 2 cars and now it is just the opposite. The car was recently serviced fully (1 month back) with everything checked and fixed, tubes / hoses replaced, oil changed, brake fluid topped up and so on. But the ride now is so bumpy that nobody in the house wants to travel in this car, especially if the route we're taking is a little bad. Look forward to your advice / views / suggestions on the above. Thanks and warm regards, Venkat Last edited by VSG12777 : 24th November 2008 at 18:00. Reason: made some corrections
	() Thanks

24th November 2008, 18:17	#2
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	The hunning/whining sound that you mention seems to be an indication of worn wheel bearings. A simple test to check this. Jack up the car at the rear left and spin the wheel by hand. If it rotates freely then no issue. But if it feels hard or stops rotating quickly then definitely a wheel bearing issue. For the bumpy ride check the tyre pressure. Might be too high. I never trust the pressure gauges used by tyre shops. On one occasion 28 psi on their gauge turned out to 38 psi on mine. Edit: The only other thing to check for the bumpy ride is the suspension. But since you didn't have this problem before the tyre change I don't think that this is the culprit. Last edited by vikram_d : 24th November 2008 at 18:34.
	() Thanks

24th November 2008, 18:23	#3
VSG12777 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CHENNAI Posts: 208 Thanked: 41 Times	Thanks Vikram. I shall check this out during the week. And yes, I shall check the tyre pressure too. I generally set it at around 30-32 at the petrol pump when we fill up. It's been good all along, but all of a sudden it's very very bumpy. I shall check this out. Thanks. Any other things to check for regarding the bumpy ride ? Warm regards, Venkat
	() Thanks

25th November 2008, 00:34	#4
ankitahuja BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 921 Thanked: 94 Times View My Garage	The humming sound is more or less a wheel bearing problem. Since you have got lower profile tyres now (60 against 70), you might feel the bumps more than before too. Check and set the tyre pressure accordingly. And it's not a bad idea to get the suspension checked again. Last edited by ankitahuja : 25th November 2008 at 00:36.
	() Thanks

25th November 2008, 11:47	#5
VSG12777 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CHENNAI Posts: 208 Thanked: 41 Times	Ankitahuja Thanks for the info. I shall have the suspension and shocks checked out as well, along with tyre pressure settings. And yes - the wheel bearings are definitely gonna be checked. As for the lower 195/60/13 tyres compared to the original 175/70/13 tyres, would the difference be so much ? I got the Santro's tyres changed from the stock 155/80/13 to Good Year Eagle NCT 3 imported tubeless 185/60/13. But the ride is still very good and road grip and stability at high & low speeds are much improved. Will have these checked and post back guys. Thanks once again. Warm regards, Venkat
	() Thanks

25th November 2008, 12:45	#6
narayan Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,114 Thanked: 2,372 Times View My Garage	bearing issue quite surely VSG- but at 30k ? quite early for bearing to wear out
	() Thanks

19th December 2008, 12:21	#13
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	For removing the grill the simplest way to do is to remove the 4 screws that will be holding the clamping ring down and the grill will be out.
	() Thanks

19th December 2008, 13:46	#14
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai Posts: 4,667 Thanked: 559 Times	@ VSG: Please find out how many sets of bearings are in your car's rear wheels. cos unless you change all of them the humming noise will remain! @vikram_d: Interesting signature - Care to explain that PM??
	() Thanks

29th December 2008, 14:47	#15
VSG12777 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CHENNAI Posts: 208 Thanked: 41 Times	Update: Rear Pioneer speakers replaced + other stuff too !! Hey just wanted to provide an update guys. * The rear right Pioneer 300W 3-way 6x9 speaker had some problem and it was vibrating. Indeed, there was a small hole in the paper cone and the sound was due to that. Got the rear set replaced with a Pioneer 420W 4-way 6x9 pair for Rs. 2500/- and new wiring for both the speakers too. Sound is excellent now with lovely bass. No vibration. Rs. 200/- for the wiring. Guy from GP Rd shop came home to do this. * Got a nice exhaust tip / muffler tip or whatever, installed as the exhaust pipe was a plain dark brown thing looking ugly. It's got a slight sporty note too, but only audible from outside the car. This cost around 450 bucks. * Got new Gold coloured wheel covers for the Cielo at the GP Rd shop for 600 bucks (set of 4). Good quality, made in Taiwan stuff. The guy had the same original Cielo design wheel caps for 450 bucks (made in Delhi) but I wasn't happy with the clamps on the wheel covers. Looked like they could be easily damaged / removed. Decided to go for this different design. Clamps were far better and 1 person could not fit the wheel covers. 2 people had to do it for each wheel. Car looks nice now and rides superbly on the 195/60/13 tyres. Pictures attached for you all to see !! Warm regards, Venkat Attached Thumbnails Last edited by VSG12777 : 29th December 2008 at 14:48.
	() Thanks