Turbocharger make? DDiS, MJD, QJD

kunal2202 · 6th January 2009, 20:47

Hey guyz! could any one help me with the make of Turbocharge on the 3 variants- Swift DDiS, Indica Vista QJD, Palio MJD? And also the technical spec of the turbocharger?

abhinav.gupta88 · 6th January 2009, 20:55

I guess its the same in all.
Fixed Geometry Turbo charger i believe.

kunal2202 · 6th January 2009, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88

I guess its the same in all.
Fixed Geometry Turbo charger i believe.

I was told that the vista's TC is different from siwft's and Palio's. The source is TATA-FIAL dealer's (BU Bhandari) Mechanic in Pune for this Engine. Fiat-Tata shares the vendor platform and should have the same manufacturer. I have already written to Turbo Energy to get some details about the TC's they manufacture. I am already trying to authenticate my information. I assume we have TBHP'ians from TML, FIAL and MSIL who could help.

greenhorn · 6th January 2009, 21:51

question- is the design different ?

kunal2202 · 6th January 2009, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn

question- is the design different ?

that's what i want and need to find out. The turbo kick in swift is very sudden and gives a feeling of "jettish propulsion". While in a vista it is quite linear and mild. (borrowed from CAD). the TC's are defintely timed different and may also differ in the amount and KE of air they discharge into the heart.

after all it has been proven that A 100 m dasher's heart beats differently from other normal healthy athletic individuals. Just a point.

noidaboy · 6th January 2009, 23:11

ECU's are different as well with different map's i believe.All 3 cars have different gear box's and gear ratio's as well.Hence the difference in performance.

SirAlec · 7th January 2009, 00:09

Swift's TC is made by borg warner. Don't know about Vista and Palio. Its not a VGT for sure.

dinar · 7th January 2009, 14:44

TATA uses KKK on most of it's engine so they may be supplying turbos for the qudrajet also.

kunal2202 · 7th January 2009, 16:47

here's the reson i called for the thread.
i had know the concept of turbocharger. after i bought vista i could feel a distinct difference in the response of it's tc against swifts.
It kept me wondering what should be the design consideration for the TC. being a mechanical engineer, i concluded that since a TC is a compressor turbine combine, compressor must have its ratings and specs. similarily turbine should have defined vane angles, discharge vel, phi etc. that i read some time during my degree. i went to find out from one of the mechanic at tata A.S.S. and he confirmed that TC is not a standard part of the famous FIAT engine.
i have unofficial confirmation that the TC on a Vista is from Turbo Energy Ltd. I have found the contacts in TEL and have already shot emails to them to confirm the same. If then confirm me, i will call for the TC's specs. I cant manage the same for a DDis though. we are not vendors (yet) to MSIL. they are strictly Japanese.

kunal2202 · 7th January 2009, 16:48

other specifics of TC's could be angle of track, incoming flluid angle, discharge angle etc etc.

viper_711 · 7th January 2009, 16:54

Interesting Thread Kunal - Keep digging!

7th January 2009, 20:29

Its not just the turbo design, the fuelling maps may also contribute to the difference you feel between the swift and the other 2.
What happens after you find out the differences?

dinar · 7th January 2009, 23:23

hey good info, but what are you thinking of doing after finding ? The MAP on the ddis is different as well as the gear box is a suzuki design not fiat so the initial kick in the swift, compared to TATA-FIAT.

kunal2202 · 7th January 2009, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by rippergeo

Its not just the turbo design, the fuelling maps may also contribute to the difference you feel between the swift and the other 2.
What happens after you find out the differences?

what exactly is a fuelling map? pls put a sample here. you can find a plenty on the search engines. It would be very helpful if u could find the map for swift ddis. I will try to get and post the map for vista qjd. And then we'll discuss "the variables" on the engine. the maps have to be governed by the mechanical variables, which I feel, TC is the most evident one. The common rail supplier is the same for all the variants.

moreover, i called this thread to research and understand the differences between the three variants just for my own satisfaction. and the thread is not obligatory and doesn't stop me from researching things just for nothing. its a personal prerogative.

moreover really

and would like to improve.

dinar · 7th January 2009, 23:37

A MAP is the basically the values of injections timing [pulse width] depending on various parameters. REMAP a ECU is not easy. you want to improve the engine response get yourself a piggyback for the engine.
You wont get the QDJ to work like the DDIS, the The diff ratio and the gear box ratios are different, Swift is Tuned suzuki style.

6th January 2009, 20:47	#1
kunal2202 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 116 Thanked: 6 Times	Turbocharger make? DDiS, MJD, QJD Hey guyz! could any one help me with the make of Turbocharge on the 3 variants- Swift DDiS, Indica Vista QJD, Palio MJD? And also the technical spec of the turbocharger?
	() Thanks

6th January 2009, 20:55	#2
abhinav.gupta88 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Delhi , India Posts: 4,092 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	I guess its the same in all. Fixed Geometry Turbo charger i believe.
	() Thanks

6th January 2009, 21:51	#4
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	question- is the design different ?
	() Thanks

6th January 2009, 23:11	#6
noidaboy BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Noida Posts: 1,003 Thanked: 268 Times View My Garage	ECU's are different as well with different map's i believe.All 3 cars have different gear box's and gear ratio's as well.Hence the difference in performance.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 00:09	#7
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,393 Thanked: 726 Times	Swift's TC is made by borg warner. Don't know about Vista and Palio. Its not a VGT for sure.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 14:44	#8
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	TATA uses KKK on most of it's engine so they may be supplying turbos for the qudrajet also.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 16:47	#9
kunal2202 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 116 Thanked: 6 Times	here's the reson i called for the thread. i had know the concept of turbocharger. after i bought vista i could feel a distinct difference in the response of it's tc against swifts. It kept me wondering what should be the design consideration for the TC. being a mechanical engineer, i concluded that since a TC is a compressor turbine combine, compressor must have its ratings and specs. similarily turbine should have defined vane angles, discharge vel, phi etc. that i read some time during my degree. i went to find out from one of the mechanic at tata A.S.S. and he confirmed that TC is not a standard part of the famous FIAT engine. i have unofficial confirmation that the TC on a Vista is from Turbo Energy Ltd. I have found the contacts in TEL and have already shot emails to them to confirm the same. If then confirm me, i will call for the TC's specs. I cant manage the same for a DDis though. we are not vendors (yet) to MSIL. they are strictly Japanese.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 16:48	#10
kunal2202 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 116 Thanked: 6 Times	other specifics of TC's could be angle of track, incoming flluid angle, discharge angle etc etc.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 16:54	#11
viper_711 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 366 Thanked: 93 Times View My Garage	Interesting Thread Kunal - Keep digging!
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 20:29	#12
rippergeo Posts: n/a	Its not just the turbo design, the fuelling maps may also contribute to the difference you feel between the swift and the other 2. What happens after you find out the differences?
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 23:23	#13
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	hey good info, but what are you thinking of doing after finding ? The MAP on the ddis is different as well as the gear box is a suzuki design not fiat so the initial kick in the swift, compared to TATA-FIAT.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 23:37	#15
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	A MAP is the basically the values of injections timing [pulse width] depending on various parameters. REMAP a ECU is not easy. you want to improve the engine response get yourself a piggyback for the engine. You wont get the QDJ to work like the DDIS, the The diff ratio and the gear box ratios are different, Swift is Tuned suzuki style.
	() Thanks