AirCon Servicing on an Alto

Raccoon · 3rd February 2009, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkavthekar

Amit,

Its no harm to check once with outside of MASS and get a quote. Last month, I got my Indica AC completely checked, cleaned and refilled the gas (after almost 6 years of usage). I went to Climate Engineers on Karve Road opposite Garware College. He charged me 2500, but taking out the Dashboard to get access to BLower, coils is extremely tedious job on Indica. I was present through out the time when job was done and he did a good job.

take care and drive safely

Thats exactly where I got my Esteem done few weeks ago. I was charged Rs. 1,500. That involved testing for leaks with nitrogen, gas recharging (total recharge with R12 gas) and li'l cleaning with water near the radiator.

But I was told that compressor is hermatically sealed. You don't need to change oil. In fact you cant change oil unless you dismantle the compressor. Though he did add a small amount of compressor oil in it...

Though, to be frank, the cooling is not as efficient as it once was. Though the guy seemed quite competent and could answer most of my questions and the service was good. The best cooling I'v experienced with the car was when my dad had taken it to the Maruti Care Point (MCP) on Paud Road, somewhere near Vanaz or the Garbage Depot. Don't know what he did besides top up the gas, as I wasn't present. But the cooling after that was the best I'v experienced in the car. That was about 1.5 years ago.

im_srini · 3rd February 2009, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

The ac kills half the engine power and driving an alto with AC on is like driving a "Bullock Cart" with no better control on the Power Band. Is there any way to help reduce the power losses? somewhere i had read that changing the pulley size helps and all. but has anyone done this ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikram_d

You can install a smaller diameter pulley on the compressor or a bigger pulley on the engine. For this you will also need to change the pulley belt. This modification makes the compressor run at a higher RPM.

Hi guys, since Amit wants a lower power drop, shouldn't the AC pulley on the engine be sized so that the compressor is driven at a lower RPM (compared to stock) ?

I'm not sure how feasible changing the compressor pulley is since it also incorporates the electric clutch for the compressor. The pulley on the engine however can be changed easily I guess...

vikram_d · 3rd February 2009, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by im_srini

Hi guys, since Amit wants a lower power drop, shouldn't the AC pulley on the engine be sized so that the compressor is driven at a lower RPM (compared to stock) ?

Let me give you an example. Let's say for an engine speed of 1000RPM the compressor is also running at 1000RPM. But if you use a bigger pulley on the engine. For 1000RPM of the engine the compressor will now run at 1200RPM. So it will be more efficient and will put less strain on the engine for the same engine speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by im_srini

I'm not sure how feasible changing the compressor pulley is since it also incorporates the electric clutch for the compressor. The pulley on the engine however can be changed easily I guess...

Yes changing the engine pulley will be easier.

amit_mechengg · 3rd February 2009, 16:31

if the same compressor is fitted onto other models of MUL for example say alto 1.1 with same pulley ratio, the compressor will always run with higher RPMs.

however there should be some source which will verify the max rpm of compressor. is there any cut off on the compressor which ensures that compressor doesnt over-rev.

anupmathur · 3rd February 2009, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

guys i have an alto done 42000 kms till date. i think its time to do an AC servicing.

Amit, I'm at a loss to understand why you are so keen on an AC 'service'!
If you describe the problem you are having, perhaps the solution can be discussed. There is no need for changing compressor oil or refrigerant just because it has been a while!
Most of the time, it is a good waterwash of the condenser that is required. IF the airflow in the cabin is reduced, you'd have to get the evaporator cleaned. This job requires extensive dismantling of the dashboard. Ideally it should be done in-situ, so that there is no need for refrigerant change.

By and large, the LESS you let workshop hands touch your machine the BETTER off you will be!

Raccoon · 3rd February 2009, 16:52

Quote:

By and large, the LESS you let workshop hands touch your machine the BETTER off you will be!

This line should be engraved in gold...

amit_mechengg · 3rd February 2009, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Amit, I'm at a loss to understand why you are so keen on an AC 'service'!
If you describe the problem you are having, perhaps the solution can be discussed. There is no need for changing compressor oil or refrigerant just because it has been a while!
Most of the time, it is a good waterwash of the condenser that is required. IF the airflow in the cabin is reduced, you'd have to get the evaporator cleaned. This job requires extensive dismantling of the dashboard. Ideally it should be done in-situ, so that there is no need for refrigerant change.

By and large, the LESS you let workshop hands touch your machine the BETTER off you will be!

MASS had insisted on AC servicing at 40k kms. There is no specific grave problem as such with my AC except that there is a bad (muddy) smell from the AC. Also the cooling effect has reduced a bit.
Also i thought that the compressor oil needs to be changed as a regular maintenance. correct me if i am wrong.

Raccoon · 3rd February 2009, 17:15

Nopes dude, you dont need to change the oil, as I mentioned above.

vikram_d · 3rd February 2009, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

if the same compressor is fitted onto other models of MUL for example say alto 1.1 with same pulley ratio, the compressor will always run with higher RPMs.

If the pulley ratio is the same across different MUL models then the compressor will run at the same RPM in all models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Amit, I'm at a loss to understand why you are so keen on an AC 'service'!

I have to agree with this. If there is no problem then please don't get anything done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

There is no specific grave problem as such with my AC except that there is a bad (muddy) smell from the AC. Also the cooling effect has reduced a bit.

The smell can be removed by using the aircon in fresh air mode for a couple of days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Also i thought that the compressor oil needs to be changed as a regular maintenance. correct me if i am wrong.

Just check in your user manual what all needs to be done at 40k servicing. If it mentions A/c service and fluids change then do it. Else don't do anything.

anupmathur · 3rd February 2009, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikram_d

The smell can be removed by using the aircon in fresh air mode for a couple of days.

Using the AC in fresh air mode is again an invitation to problems! All kinds of unholy muck will find its way into the evaporator coils, badly clogging them!
Much against what others might recommend, I advise people to permanently block the fresh air intakes, in vehicles which have no filter element.
Evaporator cleaning in-situ will help to improve cooling and keeping a bit of camphor (yes, the same stuff we use for poojaa) kept near the recirculation intake will help clear odours.

vikram_d · 3rd February 2009, 17:50

I use my car's A/c in fresh air mode whenever I have any smell related issues with the A/c and have been doing this for a long time now with my previoius cars also. Have never faced a problem. The only thing to be careful about is that when you park the car you need to put it back into re-circulation mode. More over this is a temporary thing that you do to get rid of bad odour from the A/c system.

anupmathur · 3rd February 2009, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikram_d

I use my car's A/c in fresh air mode whenever I have any smell related issues with the A/c and have been doing this for a long time now with my previoius cars also. Have never faced a problem. The only thing to be careful about is that when you park the car you need to put it back into re-circulation mode. More over this is a temporary thing that you do to get rid of bad odour from the A/c system.

LOL, you probably live in a relatively dust-free environment, compared to Delhi!
Also, if you have regularly used the fresh air intake, you have not allowed a large stock-pile of muck to collect there. Small quantities have been regularly sucked in and blown out. There is grave danger if the fresh air intake has been sitting closed for a long time and you suddenly decide to use it one day!

vikram_d · 3rd February 2009, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur

LOL, you probably live in a relatively dust-free environment, compared to Delhi!

If you can call Bangalore with all the construction around dust free then yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Also, if you have regularly used the fresh air intake, you have not allowed a large stock-pile of muck to collect there. Small quantities have been regularly sucked in and blown out. There is grave danger if the fresh air intake has been sitting closed for a long time and you suddenly decide to use it one day!

That is why I recommend using fresh air mode more often. I use only fresh air mode on the highways where there is not much dust to be worried about.

gpa · 17th February 2010, 15:42

Bringing this thread to life after over a year. Summer is slowly begining to set in here in Bangalore, the nights have lost that distinctive nip in the air and the afternoon sun is warm.

For all the Alto owners on this forum, what do you do to ready your car's a/c for the summer?

My car has clocked 26,000 kms and will complete 2 years this May. Since I was at my MASS recently for a routine service, I asked the mech to check and top-up the a/c gas to prepare for the onslaught of summer. On the contrary, he checked the temp of the air flowing through the centre grille with the temp knob at the coldest setting and it registered ~4.3 to 4.5 degrees celcius. The ambient temp at that time was ~30 deg celcius.

Based on this he said it is not necessary to recharge the gas, and that the cooling was sufficient. I knew if the gas was over charged, the compressor would kick-in constantly leading to poor cooling, hence I said ok. He said he'll get the condensor cleaned and that should improve cooling a tad further.

I do not use the recirulation mode since I bought the car and so I am fairly certain that the cooling coils located under the dash are clean and so did not want him to open/fiddle with anything though he said he'll clean the cooling coils box.

A few questions that I have are:

Was the temp that was registered (4.3 deg C) good enough?
Since it is going to be 2 years and I have not noticed any drop in performance of the a/c should I still go to a outside dealer and get the gas levels checked?

Will be great to have your inputs.

Thanks,
gpa

Raccoon · 17th February 2010, 16:23

^^^The gas pressure can be easily checked by attaching a gauge. This is the surest method of checking and hardly takes 5 mins. But I guess its ok not to bother if the cooling is normal and the watch glass on the receiver drier is clear.

4.3 C grill temp. seems pretty good... but would depend on the ambient air at that time. Hopefully others will give you a more precise figure regarding the temp.

3rd February 2009, 16:31	#19
amit_mechengg Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 2,488 Thanked: 2,252 Times View My Garage	if the same compressor is fitted onto other models of MUL for example say alto 1.1 with same pulley ratio, the compressor will always run with higher RPMs. however there should be some source which will verify the max rpm of compressor. is there any cut off on the compressor which ensures that compressor doesnt over-rev.
	() Thanks

3rd February 2009, 17:15	#23
Raccoon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poona Posts: 1,851 Thanked: 116 Times	Nopes dude, you dont need to change the oil, as I mentioned above. Last edited by Raccoon : 3rd February 2009 at 17:16.
	() Thanks

3rd February 2009, 17:50	#26
vikram_d Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,427 Thanked: 1,185 Times	I use my car's A/c in fresh air mode whenever I have any smell related issues with the A/c and have been doing this for a long time now with my previoius cars also. Have never faced a problem. The only thing to be careful about is that when you park the car you need to put it back into re-circulation mode. More over this is a temporary thing that you do to get rid of bad odour from the A/c system. Last edited by vikram_d : 3rd February 2009 at 17:52.
	() Thanks

17th February 2010, 15:42	#29
gpa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,789 Thanked: 340 Times	Preparing the Alto a/c for summer Bringing this thread to life after over a year. Summer is slowly begining to set in here in Bangalore, the nights have lost that distinctive nip in the air and the afternoon sun is warm. For all the Alto owners on this forum, what do you do to ready your car's a/c for the summer? My car has clocked 26,000 kms and will complete 2 years this May. Since I was at my MASS recently for a routine service, I asked the mech to check and top-up the a/c gas to prepare for the onslaught of summer. On the contrary, he checked the temp of the air flowing through the centre grille with the temp knob at the coldest setting and it registered ~4.3 to 4.5 degrees celcius. The ambient temp at that time was ~30 deg celcius. Based on this he said it is not necessary to recharge the gas, and that the cooling was sufficient. I knew if the gas was over charged, the compressor would kick-in constantly leading to poor cooling, hence I said ok. He said he'll get the condensor cleaned and that should improve cooling a tad further. I do not use the recirulation mode since I bought the car and so I am fairly certain that the cooling coils located under the dash are clean and so did not want him to open/fiddle with anything though he said he'll clean the cooling coils box. A few questions that I have are: Was the temp that was registered (4.3 deg C) good enough? Since it is going to be 2 years and I have not noticed any drop in performance of the a/c should I still go to a outside dealer and get the gas levels checked? Will be great to have your inputs. Thanks, gpa
	() Thanks

17th February 2010, 16:23	#30
Raccoon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poona Posts: 1,851 Thanked: 116 Times	^^^The gas pressure can be easily checked by attaching a gauge. This is the surest method of checking and hardly takes 5 mins. But I guess its ok not to bother if the cooling is normal and the watch glass on the receiver drier is clear. 4.3 C grill temp. seems pretty good... but would depend on the ambient air at that time. Hopefully others will give you a more precise figure regarding the temp.
	() Thanks