Lancer Sluggish at low RPMs

leadf00t · 13th April 2009, 16:23

I am just back from a 500 km weekend drive to Shrivardhan a small town on the konkan coastline. It is a 50 km drive through some pretty winding Sai-Morba ghat section after leaving the Mumbai Goa highway at Maangaon.

While driving through the ghats i noticed that my lancer was extremely sluggish in the rpm range of 1000 to 1200 especially in the second gear. no matter how much i floored the throttle the car wouldn't accelerate.
The only option was to shift down to first raise the rpms and slip the clutch a bit and let the car pull up rpms. I agree i am into "lugging" rpm category but the car never felt like "I cant move" so much before in these rpms. I was initially driving on LPG and then on Petrol since the power loss was more significant in LPG. After about 1400 rpms the car pulls up pretty well all the way upto 5.5K rpm.

I was with 5 passengers and on a decent luggage load. However I have never seen the lancer struggle before.
I tried running the car later in all different load conditions with ac without ac without any other passengers on lpg and petrol. But i still notice a hint of sluggishness to start the car in these rpms.

I had noticed this behavior sometime ago and asked my HM service adviser but he scared me off with a head overhaul job. which i wasn't too convinced about. I wasn't too convinced on the way HM gives you list of work-to-be-done. my last service, they gave me a estimate of 34K for a regular service , suspension , engine/gearbox mount change and some minor stuff here and there. He said he had cleaned the throttle body, injectors and said that this is a minor niggle that i can live with.

But since yesterday's drive i m

. The is more noticeable in city drives and when i m tottering in traffic climbing flyovers.

guys please give your advice on the possible cause for this.

Car sluggish in LOW(1000 -1200) rpms but normal beyond 1600 rpm.

Can someone suggest a reasonable and reliable mechanic to deal with lancers in mumbai. I remember N_C telling me of his trusted mechanic in panvel.

ASHISHPALLOD · 13th April 2009, 16:27

@leadfoot,
Its right time to change the car and get new SKODA.

leadf00t · 13th April 2009, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD

@leadfoot,
its time to change the car and get new SKODA.

Ashish don't even utter the S word to me anymore.
I am already scared to hell to end up spending through my nose on this dear car. Imagine my plight if i own a skoda.

bas kya it just about a year and half since i brought my dream.
Btw i did contemplate to buy a skoda octavia L&K for the worst 5 minutes of my life however i quickly gained composure and skipped it since the car price and spare price didn't somewhat sync with my pocket.

silver_shadow · 13th April 2009, 16:31

start with checking your plugs, plug wires and ignition coil. report back when this is done.

1self · 13th April 2009, 17:24

Check for rough idling, with A/C on. If it's rough then it could be the plugs, plug wires. Also, i think your fuel pump may not be giving enough pressure at those rpm's. Get that checked also.

GTO · 13th April 2009, 18:06

Quote:

I am just back from a 500 km weekend drive to Shrivardhan a small town on the konkan coastline.

Did you fill up in the small town as well? Could simply be a case of bad fuel.

SS-Traveller · 13th April 2009, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

Did you fill up in the small town as well? Could simply be a case of bad fuel.

Check with a tankful from your regular pump. Add System-G to the tank. Confirm tyre pressures are fine. Check brakes are not heating up or handbrake is not dragging/binding.

If the above doesn't help, THEN look under the bonnet for further causes...

leadf00t · 13th April 2009, 23:29

No rough idle. seen that with petrol. all testing i do with petrol since that tuning is more accurate. moreover bad fuel is ruled out. i have filled at the same pump for years now.
could this really be some issue that might require a head overhaul? just a small range of a few hundred rpm.
othewise performance is as expected.

p.s. please excuse the bad formatting. since i am typing from my mobile

ask77 · 14th April 2009, 01:06

look for vaccum leaks on inlet manifold. sometimes small leaks can cause additional air to get in and weaken the mixture especially in older cars

1self · 14th April 2009, 08:59

Check the fuel pump. Also on gas, the intake/ exhaust valves receive no lubrication whatsoever, so over time they do tend to go out of shape...i believe there could be minor leakages of compression. get a compression test done. that should give you some idea.

Do NOT go in for a head overhaul without doing the compression test first.

Vid6639 · 14th April 2009, 09:05

I have the similar problem. Below 2000rpm the performance is zilch. The call literally shudders to start from a signal.

The compression is fine at 160psi on all 4 cylinders although should be 180psi. If fuel pump had an issue the idling or power delivery would not be linear and you can feel jerks. This is not the case.

I'm planning on getting the plugs changed soon, so let me see how much that improves it.

leadf00t · 14th April 2009, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ask77

look for vaccum leaks on inlet manifold. sometimes small leaks can cause additional air to get in and weaken the mixture especially in older cars

Check

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1self

Check the fuel pump. Also on gas, the intake/ exhaust valves receive no lubrication whatsoever, so over time they do tend to go out of shape...i believe there could be minor leakages of compression. get a compression test done. that should give you some idea.

Do NOT go in for a head overhaul without doing the compression test first.

fuel pump - check
compression test - check

I don't see intake and exhaust value lacking lubrication . since i fo run the car on petrol and LPG alternatively for about 300 km's .

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid6639

I have the similar problem. Below 2000rpm the performance is zilch. The call literally shudders to start from a signal.

The compression is fine at 160psi on all 4 cylinders although should be 180psi. If fuel pump had an issue the idling or power delivery would not be linear and you can feel jerks. This is not the case.

I'm planning on getting the plugs changed soon, so let me see how much that improves it.

Viddy - our cars are clocking up similar mileages and we are facing similar problems.

I too believe the plugs have not been changed in the last at least 25K km.
Change plugs - check - what was the stock replacement NGK plugs u recommended last time.

and now for recommended garages to get work done at ??

1) N_C garage in panvel
2) ??
3) ??

Vid6639 · 14th April 2009, 11:11

Stock replacement NGK plugs part number is BPR5ES-11.

The better plugs from NGK for lancer are the BPR5EGP. See if you can try to get the GP one. They should be better. I'm also looking out for them. My car is also going for timing belt change as a precaution.

razor4077 · 14th April 2009, 12:47

When you take out the plugs, take a look at their colour. Am guessing you've used them for a while. All of them should ideally be a brown/tan colour. Too dark and that cylinder's running too rich on fuel, too light means it's running lean.
Also have the following things done:
- Throttle body and injectors cleaning (did you eventually get these cleaned at HM?)
- Timing check & adjustment if needed
- Tappets - check and tighten/loosen as needed
- Ignition coil check
- Air filter - clean/change if needed
- Engine oil - change if needed, check for leaks
- Fuel filter - change if needed

Most of these are basic maintenance practices, and I'm pretty sure you're having these done routinely. But, no harm making sure.
Overhauling the head seems to be a rather extreme step, and I am fairly certain it won't be necessary. Do get a second opinion from a good (non-HM) mechanic.

Vid6639 · 14th April 2009, 12:50

What's the compression numbers your getting? Have you done the compression test by disconnecting the fuel pump?

The compression for the Lancer is 180psi. Mine is barely 160psi.

13th April 2009, 16:23	#1
leadf00t BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MH04 Posts: 439 Thanked: 15 Times View My Garage	Lancer Sluggish at low RPMs I am just back from a 500 km weekend drive to Shrivardhan a small town on the konkan coastline. It is a 50 km drive through some pretty winding Sai-Morba ghat section after leaving the Mumbai Goa highway at Maangaon. While driving through the ghats i noticed that my lancer was extremely sluggish in the rpm range of 1000 to 1200 especially in the second gear. no matter how much i floored the throttle the car wouldn't accelerate. The only option was to shift down to first raise the rpms and slip the clutch a bit and let the car pull up rpms. I agree i am into "lugging" rpm category but the car never felt like "I cant move" so much before in these rpms. I was initially driving on LPG and then on Petrol since the power loss was more significant in LPG. After about 1400 rpms the car pulls up pretty well all the way upto 5.5K rpm. I was with 5 passengers and on a decent luggage load. However I have never seen the lancer struggle before. I tried running the car later in all different load conditions with ac without ac without any other passengers on lpg and petrol. But i still notice a hint of sluggishness to start the car in these rpms. I had noticed this behavior sometime ago and asked my HM service adviser but he scared me off with a head overhaul job. which i wasn't too convinced about. I wasn't too convinced on the way HM gives you list of work-to-be-done. my last service, they gave me a estimate of 34K for a regular service , suspension , engine/gearbox mount change and some minor stuff here and there. He said he had cleaned the throttle body, injectors and said that this is a minor niggle that i can live with. But since yesterday's drive i m . The is more noticeable in city drives and when i m tottering in traffic climbing flyovers. guys please give your advice on the possible cause for this. Car sluggish in LOW(1000 -1200) rpms but normal beyond 1600 rpm. Can someone suggest a reasonable and reliable mechanic to deal with lancers in mumbai. I remember N_C telling me of his trusted mechanic in panvel. Last edited by leadf00t : 13th April 2009 at 16:24.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 16:27	#2
ASHISHPALLOD Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: MH42 Posts: 2,005 Thanked: 334 Times	@leadfoot, Its right time to change the car and get new SKODA. Last edited by ASHISHPALLOD : 13th April 2009 at 16:29.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 16:31	#4
silver_shadow BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 366 Thanked: 3 Times	start with checking your plugs, plug wires and ignition coil. report back when this is done.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 17:24	#5
1self BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 629 Thanked: 330 Times View My Garage	Check for rough idling, with A/C on. If it's rough then it could be the plugs, plug wires. Also, i think your fuel pump may not be giving enough pressure at those rpm's. Get that checked also.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 23:29	#8
leadf00t BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MH04 Posts: 439 Thanked: 15 Times View My Garage	No rough idle. seen that with petrol. all testing i do with petrol since that tuning is more accurate. moreover bad fuel is ruled out. i have filled at the same pump for years now. could this really be some issue that might require a head overhaul? just a small range of a few hundred rpm. othewise performance is as expected. p.s. please excuse the bad formatting. since i am typing from my mobile
	() Thanks

14th April 2009, 01:06	#9
ask77 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Agra Posts: 147 Thanked: 23 Times	look for vaccum leaks on inlet manifold. sometimes small leaks can cause additional air to get in and weaken the mixture especially in older cars
	() Thanks

14th April 2009, 08:59	#10
1self BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 629 Thanked: 330 Times View My Garage	Check the fuel pump. Also on gas, the intake/ exhaust valves receive no lubrication whatsoever, so over time they do tend to go out of shape...i believe there could be minor leakages of compression. get a compression test done. that should give you some idea. Do NOT go in for a head overhaul without doing the compression test first.
	() Thanks

14th April 2009, 09:05	#11
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,727 Thanked: 43,457 Times View My Garage	I have the similar problem. Below 2000rpm the performance is zilch. The call literally shudders to start from a signal. The compression is fine at 160psi on all 4 cylinders although should be 180psi. If fuel pump had an issue the idling or power delivery would not be linear and you can feel jerks. This is not the case. I'm planning on getting the plugs changed soon, so let me see how much that improves it.
	() Thanks

14th April 2009, 11:11	#13
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,727 Thanked: 43,457 Times View My Garage	Stock replacement NGK plugs part number is BPR5ES-11. The better plugs from NGK for lancer are the BPR5EGP. See if you can try to get the GP one. They should be better. I'm also looking out for them. My car is also going for timing belt change as a precaution.
	() Thanks

14th April 2009, 12:47	#14
razor4077 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,882 Thanked: 298 Times View My Garage	When you take out the plugs, take a look at their colour. Am guessing you've used them for a while. All of them should ideally be a brown/tan colour. Too dark and that cylinder's running too rich on fuel, too light means it's running lean. Also have the following things done: - Throttle body and injectors cleaning (did you eventually get these cleaned at HM?) - Timing check & adjustment if needed - Tappets - check and tighten/loosen as needed - Ignition coil check - Air filter - clean/change if needed - Engine oil - change if needed, check for leaks - Fuel filter - change if needed Most of these are basic maintenance practices, and I'm pretty sure you're having these done routinely. But, no harm making sure. Overhauling the head seems to be a rather extreme step, and I am fairly certain it won't be necessary. Do get a second opinion from a good (non-HM) mechanic.
	() Thanks

14th April 2009, 12:50	#15
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,727 Thanked: 43,457 Times View My Garage	What's the compression numbers your getting? Have you done the compression test by disconnecting the fuel pump? The compression for the Lancer is 180psi. Mine is barely 160psi.
	() Thanks