CNG'ed Fiat Palio queries

amitverma · 30th June 2008, 22:32

Hey guys.
After much thought I have made up my mind to get a CNG kit retrofitted in my Palio 1.2. But as I was trying to inquire abt the same, I came across a couple of mechanics who warned me against it. They said, I may encounter problems with the ECM of the car and CNG just doesnt suit the Palio.
By default, not trusting those guys, I am here again to look for answers. I hope I can get some good results (positive, i really hope).

Since mine has done really low mileage (22k), I am first and foremost concerned about the health perspective rather than anything else. The engine should not get affected neither should the very expensive ECM.
There are a lot of different kits available in the market: open/closed loops, kits with lambda, TAP etc etc.

I would reallly appreciate if someone could take out a little time to explain to me what all difference do they make.

@MODS: I am on the verge of getting a CNG installation, so I would really appreciate a 2-3 day window before you guys merge this thread with some CNG thread, that I was unable to find, in the first place. This is a small request.

amitverma · 1st July 2008, 21:58

*bump
--another 15 characters--

kapilsharma80 · 2nd July 2008, 15:10

Hi Amit,

Upfront, don't get CNG installed in a palio. It will kill the engine with time.
Would suggest you to get in touch with Dr Pullokaran (member team bhp and paliousers group at yahoo). he has 1.6 with lpg kit.

Eddy · 2nd July 2008, 15:21

I would also suggest that you call/PM wolfenstien on the forum. He is a CNG expert.

abhik · 2nd July 2008, 15:24

Have already PMed you.

windsurfer · 2nd July 2008, 15:24

Did you check the PUG? I think some users have done this and seem pretty happy with this. I would suggest that you get complete information before plunging into this. I know of some bad installs (for Palio) where the user had to spent good amount to get the car back to what it was.

phamilyman · 2nd July 2008, 15:52

Except contacting the CNG experts (wolfinstein/abhik and to some extent Gangsta? ) I would say speak first to the 1.2 NV wala guys you meet at CNG pumps. They'll give true picture of its compatibility.

LPG is an inferior solution price wise and just as much power loss.

ARAI website will give you list of qualified installers.

Try on PUG but there's hardly any active member on tbhp whose running a palio CNG (tsk's some relative had a 1.2 on LPG).

amitverma · 2nd July 2008, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsurfer

Did you check the PUG? I think some users have done this and seem pretty happy with this. I would suggest that you get complete information before plunging into this. I know of some bad installs (for Palio) where the user had to spent good amount to get the car back to what it was.

this is what im most terrified of. even a service mechanic at sanya motors, maya puri advised me against getting a cng install done. thats why i am a bit paranoid.

any more inputs or locations where i can get a good install done?

phamilyman · 2nd July 2008, 17:19

Why not ask shrimanker or ask the tata guys like vivek/A1 about the installers who did installations on 1.2 NV (in dec 06 you had CNG fitted through dealer with warranty fully happening)

abhik · 2nd July 2008, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Except contacting the CNG experts (wolfinstein/abhik and to some extent Gangsta? ) I would say speak first to the 1.2 NV wala guys you meet at CNG pumps. They'll give true picture of its compatibility.

ARAI website will give you list of qualified installers.

Try on PUG but there's hardly any active member on tbhp whose running a palio CNG (tsk's some relative had a 1.2 on LPG).

Not quite true! I had a couple of friends with Balenos, one of them was so unhappy that he complained that his Baleno struggled to climb inclines and the other was happy with the performance and FE. Both got the kits fitted from different fitters and the only reason of one of them being unhappy was an absence of a TAP.
But if we look deeper into the matter its actually the lack of knowledge of fitters that play a major role in a car's funtioning on alternate fuel.
Running a NA engine irrespective of its cubic capacity on CNG or LPG is no rocket science. Thats why a number of fitters out there can easily fit a kit onto a car but dont have a clue of how to extract performance out of it or make it perform in the first place due to lack of knowledge, equipment, also quality of materials used and installation procedure.

So opinions may vary on a particular car even from direct owners/users. I swear on Ikon being a very good car on CNG even if you are looking for performance than FE. But there are fitters out there who would'nt even touch the car and even claim that fitting the 1.6 with CNG is impossible.
Then i make their jaws drop by telling them 170kmph on CNG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

LPG is an inferior solution price wise and just as much power loss.

Its very unfortunate that LPG and CNG are looked upon as inferior fuels when they(especially LPG)is a higher octane fuel that petrol and is capable of far better performance than petrol.
Also the higher cost of Sequential injection kits restrict us to the normal kit which works like a carburated engine.
(Difference between the normal kit and sequential kit is best explained as difference between a carburated and a MPFI engine.)
SIGH!! Only if turbocharging was an inexpensive job!!

abhik · 2nd July 2008, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitverma

this is what im most terrified of. even a service mechanic at sanya motors, maya puri advised me against getting a cng install done. thats why i am a bit paranoid.

any more inputs or locations where i can get a good install done?

Well thats exactly what was said by Ford for the Ikon. But i proved them wrong.

phamilyman · 2nd July 2008, 18:26

Abhik bhai,

I said "LPG is an inferior solution price wise (compared to CNG)".
I didn't mean it as a motherhood statement. And I'm sure that the reason you put CNG not LPG was the above fact wonlee

abhik · 2nd July 2008, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Abhik bhai,

I said "LPG is an inferior solution price wise (compared to CNG)".
I didn't mean it as a motherhood statement. And I'm sure that the reason you put CNG not LPG was the above fact wonlee

Sorry Brother thought you meant it as a fuel aswell! My mistake and My Sincere Appologies to you sir!

extreme_torque · 2nd July 2008, 20:11

Abhik... can you recommend me a good installer in Delhi whom I can visit for CNG installation? I have a Palio 1.2 too

amitverma · 3rd July 2008, 01:03

i've gained some confidence abt the install. but just for information's sake, how much does an ECM cost - Palio 1.2?

30th June 2008, 22:32	#1
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 141 Times	Fiat Palio 1.2 NV CNG Compatibility Hey guys. After much thought I have made up my mind to get a CNG kit retrofitted in my Palio 1.2. But as I was trying to inquire abt the same, I came across a couple of mechanics who warned me against it. They said, I may encounter problems with the ECM of the car and CNG just doesnt suit the Palio. By default, not trusting those guys, I am here again to look for answers. I hope I can get some good results (positive, i really hope). Since mine has done really low mileage (22k), I am first and foremost concerned about the health perspective rather than anything else. The engine should not get affected neither should the very expensive ECM. There are a lot of different kits available in the market: open/closed loops, kits with lambda, TAP etc etc. I would reallly appreciate if someone could take out a little time to explain to me what all difference do they make. @MODS: I am on the verge of getting a CNG installation, so I would really appreciate a 2-3 day window before you guys merge this thread with some CNG thread, that I was unable to find, in the first place. This is a small request.
	() Thanks

1st July 2008, 21:58	#2
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 141 Times	*bump --another 15 characters--
	() Thanks

2nd July 2008, 15:10	#3
kapilsharma80 BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chandigarh Posts: 229 Thanked: 87 Times	Hi Amit, Upfront, don't get CNG installed in a palio. It will kill the engine with time. Would suggest you to get in touch with Dr Pullokaran (member team bhp and paliousers group at yahoo). he has 1.6 with lpg kit.
	(1) Thanks

2nd July 2008, 15:21	#4
Eddy Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 9,388 Thanked: 13,303 Times	I would also suggest that you call/PM wolfenstien on the forum. He is a CNG expert.
	() Thanks

2nd July 2008, 15:24	#5
abhik BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 848 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	Have already PMed you.
	() Thanks

2nd July 2008, 15:24	#6
windsurfer BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Dundee, UK Posts: 513 Thanked: 25 Times	Did you check the PUG? I think some users have done this and seem pretty happy with this. I would suggest that you get complete information before plunging into this. I know of some bad installs (for Palio) where the user had to spent good amount to get the car back to what it was.
	() Thanks

2nd July 2008, 15:52	#7
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Except contacting the CNG experts (wolfinstein/abhik and to some extent Gangsta? ) I would say speak first to the 1.2 NV wala guys you meet at CNG pumps. They'll give true picture of its compatibility. LPG is an inferior solution price wise and just as much power loss. ARAI website will give you list of qualified installers. Try on PUG but there's hardly any active member on tbhp whose running a palio CNG (tsk's some relative had a 1.2 on LPG).
	() Thanks

2nd July 2008, 17:19	#9
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Why not ask shrimanker or ask the tata guys like vivek/A1 about the installers who did installations on 1.2 NV (in dec 06 you had CNG fitted through dealer with warranty fully happening)
	() Thanks

2nd July 2008, 18:26	#12
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Abhik bhai, I said "LPG is an inferior solution price wise (compared to CNG)". I didn't mean it as a motherhood statement. And I'm sure that the reason you put CNG not LPG was the above fact wonlee
	() Thanks

2nd July 2008, 20:11	#14
extreme_torque Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 4,377 Thanked: 5,105 Times	Abhik... can you recommend me a good installer in Delhi whom I can visit for CNG installation? I have a Palio 1.2 too
	() Thanks

3rd July 2008, 01:03	#15
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 141 Times	i've gained some confidence abt the install. but just for information's sake, how much does an ECM cost - Palio 1.2?
	() Thanks