Gas Shock Absorbers for Swift

aseem · 18th August 2005, 21:14

Hi Guys, I have a Swift Vxi red in color which I have recently purchased. I absolutely love the car and have upsized the tyres to 185/70/14 with alloys. The tyres are Bridgestone Potenza GIII. The car is a delight to drive on highways where the roads are good, however the ride is a bit towards harsher side on the bad roads (I emphasize BIT harsh as I dont want potential buyers to fear and not buy this car as that will decrease the RESALE of my car)

However I have checked that Getz and Fusion have Gas filled rear shock absorbers as opposed to torsion beam for the Swift, and the rear in Swift is a lil bumpier due to this. So I am considering if I can modify/change the rear suspension to Gas filled shocks and how much will this cost

turbo_lover · 18th August 2005, 21:38

even the sail has gas filled shocks ..
ride will improve drastically no dbout.. but shouldnt you till you run the car a bit longer ..as it does take some time for the suspension to soften up ...

mclaren1885 · 18th August 2005, 21:47

ya i too would suggest the same..wait for some more time..the shocks might soften up..then maybe ur handling might improve...once ur shocks really get screwed then u can go in for the gas shocks...

aseem · 18th August 2005, 22:12

I dont mind waiting as I am not going for this ASAP... just wanna know if its possible... the options and the cost.

merve_extreme · 18th August 2005, 22:21

swift has torsion beam and coil spring setup for the rear.but if it has oil filled rear dampers(shock absobers)then they can be replaced with gas filled ones(aftermarket ones may fit)

aseem · 18th August 2005, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

swift has torsion beam and coil spring setup for the rear.but if it has oil filled rear dampers(shock absobers)then they can be replaced with gas filled ones(aftermarket ones may fit)

Firstly they havent mentioned in their brochures that they have oil filled rear dampers.... so anyone who knows more about this let me know.
Secondaly if they do, how much will it cost me to replace them with gas filled aftermarket shockers?
Thirdly if they dont have oil filled rear dampers, what options am I left with???

aseem · 18th August 2005, 22:58

I have checked the Maruti site, this is what they say about the rear suspension:
THE NEW TORSION-BEAM REAR SUSPENSION
keeps unsprung weight low. Good control of camber angle and toe-in makes for accurate and predictable handling. Also, a space-efficient layout permits a low, flat luggage-area floor.

So I think it doesnt come with oil filled dampner. No wonder the ride is towards the harsher side. So considering the fact that there are no oil/gas filled shock absorbers at the rear, how can I modify to make the rear suspension with gas filled shocks, the cost and the risks associated with this.

merve_extreme · 18th August 2005, 23:38

if there are no oil filled dampers then there in no use of going and putting gas dampers.it will be a big mess as u will have to alter the compression strength of the coil springs(u may have to change the coil springs to ones with different spring rates),install new mountings for the dampers etc.

it is not worth the effort.

i dont know exactly.but i think coil springs also have a damper(oil filled) fitted inside the coil springs),like we have on rear suspension of indian motorcycles.if yes then see if those can be changed to gas ones.

veyron1 · 19th August 2005, 00:51

guys, the torsion beam setup is just one of the rear suspension designs on offer, like trailing link, wishbone type, etc. in a torsion beam setup, the torsion beam acts as the main link for the rear wheels (like the lower arms / upper arms for the front suspension), along with a coil spring and a damper/shock absorber.

so, aseem, the swift, DOES have a oil- filled or standard damper/shock absorber. in fact, all types of suspension setups, be it the front or the rear, has dampers. the advantage of a torsion beam setup is that it occupies lesser space than trailing links or fully independent systems incorporating wishbones, etc. and also, the size/ length of the dampers in a torsion beam setup are usually small. i haven't inspected the rear suspension of the swift, so i don't have any idea of any aftermarket gas-filled dampers that can be bolted on to the swift. but i'm sure a proper technician could guide you to the same.

p.s- the function of a damper/ shock absorber is to dampen or negate the oscillations/ vibrations produced by any sort of suspension setup/ linkage (the coils/ torsion bars; torsion bars are for front- for amby, safari, etc. torsion beams are for rear). so, all modern suspensions have dampers in them, no matter what the design- trailing link, Mcpherson strut, wishbone- type, solid/ semi-floating axles, parallel links, torsion beam, etc....

p.p.s- another small thing... the actual shock absorber in any suspension setup is the coil/ torsion bar/ leaf spring....the "shock absorber" actually dampens the shocks absorbed by the coils/ torsion bars/leafs....therefore, the "shock absorber" is actually (and technically) called the friction damper....

aseem · 19th August 2005, 09:31

Veyron1, thanks for the useful information. If possible check and see if the oil dampers of the Swift can be replaced with oil filled gas shock absorbers for the rear. Also how much will this cost and are any aftermarket off the shelf gas shock absorbers there that can act as a replacement and whats the cost associated with them?

aseem · 20th August 2005, 11:06

Folks, I am sure some TBHPian can shed some more light on this....

veyron1 · 20th August 2005, 12:20

Quote:

If possible check and see if the oil dampers of the Swift can be replaced with oil filled gas shock absorbers for the rear.

i am going for the first routine service of my swift early next month, so i shall get the car up on a ramp and check the mountings for any sort of resemblance to aftermarket fitments - shall say more on this after that....

and aseem, that's gas-filled (or gas charged/ pneumatic) shock absorbers....not oil - filled....

p.s- i'm not a 100% on this, but you can ask your local maruti A.S.S if the gas-charged dampers from the earlier maruti 800 mpfi (5-speed) could be fitted on to the swift...and if so, they should give you decent ride quality....

veyron1 · 20th August 2005, 12:35

Quote:

If possible check and see if the oil dampers of the Swift can be replaced with oil filled gas shock absorbers for the rear.

errr...that's gas charged dampers/shock absorbers, not oil-filled gas shock-absorbers...

i shall be going in for the 1st routine service of my zxi early next month, so i shall check out the damper mountings in detail then. if possible, i shall try to get her up on a ramp and do so earlier....

p.s- aseem, i'm not a 100% on this, but check out from your local maruti A.S.S if they have the gas charged shockers from the maruti 800 mpfi (5-speed)..... ask them wheher that can be fitted onto the swift....i don't think the mounts are all that different...it should be a bolt-on affair; the ride quality should improve with those dampers.... but like i said, i'm not exactly a 100% sure on this, so please check it out.....

ananthkamath · 20th August 2005, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by veyron1

p.s- aseem, i'm not a 100% on this, but check out from your local maruti A.S.S if they have the gas charged shockers from the maruti 800 mpfi (5-speed)..... the ride quality should improve with those dampers....

Its not as simple as that. The 800 is a much lighter car at 650 kg approx. as opposed to the Swift which is on the wrong side of 1000 kg. Further, to control the weight of the heavy Swift axle (it is VERY beefy compared to the puny 800 axle), you need heavier dampers. So, instead of improving ride, this may affect both ride AND handling effectively. Refer to (2).

Aseem,

1) Since you have upsized, what tyre pressures are you maintaining? Play around with the pressures at the back to improve ride. This works very well, especially if you are the only one in the car. For example, the recommended rear pressure on my car is 32 psi but I am not happy with anything more than 26.

2) Check if any oil-filled dampers fit the Swift mounts. If you are able to locate them, these will then have to be modified to get the damping characteristics close to what you want. PM me for more details....

Ananth

Mpower · 20th August 2005, 20:08

Aseem

Getz and Fusion also have torsion beams. If you want to use those shocks you need to compare the following things.

1. Overall travel
2. Kerb height
3. Jounce Height
4. Rebound Height
5. Shock ratio
6. Compression damping

If all these are close, then you can go ahead and use those shocks.
If you use too tall of a shock, then the shock piston will contact before the jounce bumper and result in shock breakage because your shock travel is less than your suspension travel. Also since your shock is your rebound stop, the spring might fall off if the shock is too long. If the shock is too short you will not get enough rebound travel.

But, looking at the big picture, I dont know if it will solve your harshness problem. ALL shocks have OIL. Gas is used instead of air to prevent frothing....that all. If the gas filled ones have lower compression damping, then it might just solve your problem. I would suggest driving a fully stock car and comparing the ride. If the stock one is better, then its coming from your tires.

18th August 2005, 21:14	#1
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 441 Times	Gas Shock Absorbers for Swift Hi Guys, I have a Swift Vxi red in color which I have recently purchased. I absolutely love the car and have upsized the tyres to 185/70/14 with alloys. The tyres are Bridgestone Potenza GIII. The car is a delight to drive on highways where the roads are good, however the ride is a bit towards harsher side on the bad roads (I emphasize BIT harsh as I dont want potential buyers to fear and not buy this car as that will decrease the RESALE of my car) However I have checked that Getz and Fusion have Gas filled rear shock absorbers as opposed to torsion beam for the Swift, and the rear in Swift is a lil bumpier due to this. So I am considering if I can modify/change the rear suspension to Gas filled shocks and how much will this cost
	() Thanks

18th August 2005, 21:38	#2
turbo_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,377 Thanked: 9 Times	even the sail has gas filled shocks .. ride will improve drastically no dbout.. but shouldnt you till you run the car a bit longer ..as it does take some time for the suspension to soften up ...
	() Thanks

18th August 2005, 21:47	#3
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	ya i too would suggest the same..wait for some more time..the shocks might soften up..then maybe ur handling might improve...once ur shocks really get screwed then u can go in for the gas shocks...
	() Thanks

18th August 2005, 22:12	#4
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 441 Times	I dont mind waiting as I am not going for this ASAP... just wanna know if its possible... the options and the cost.
	() Thanks

18th August 2005, 22:21	#5
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	swift has torsion beam and coil spring setup for the rear.but if it has oil filled rear dampers(shock absobers)then they can be replaced with gas filled ones(aftermarket ones may fit) Last edited by merve_extreme : 18th August 2005 at 22:30.
	() Thanks

18th August 2005, 22:58	#7
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 441 Times	I have checked the Maruti site, this is what they say about the rear suspension: THE NEW TORSION-BEAM REAR SUSPENSION keeps unsprung weight low. Good control of camber angle and toe-in makes for accurate and predictable handling. Also, a space-efficient layout permits a low, flat luggage-area floor. So I think it doesnt come with oil filled dampner. No wonder the ride is towards the harsher side. So considering the fact that there are no oil/gas filled shock absorbers at the rear, how can I modify to make the rear suspension with gas filled shocks, the cost and the risks associated with this.
	() Thanks

18th August 2005, 23:38	#8
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	if there are no oil filled dampers then there in no use of going and putting gas dampers.it will be a big mess as u will have to alter the compression strength of the coil springs(u may have to change the coil springs to ones with different spring rates),install new mountings for the dampers etc. it is not worth the effort. i dont know exactly.but i think coil springs also have a damper(oil filled) fitted inside the coil springs),like we have on rear suspension of indian motorcycles.if yes then see if those can be changed to gas ones.
	() Thanks

19th August 2005, 00:51	#9
veyron1 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,424 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	guys, the torsion beam setup is just one of the rear suspension designs on offer, like trailing link, wishbone type, etc. in a torsion beam setup, the torsion beam acts as the main link for the rear wheels (like the lower arms / upper arms for the front suspension), along with a coil spring and a damper/shock absorber. so, aseem, the swift, DOES have a oil- filled or standard damper/shock absorber. in fact, all types of suspension setups, be it the front or the rear, has dampers. the advantage of a torsion beam setup is that it occupies lesser space than trailing links or fully independent systems incorporating wishbones, etc. and also, the size/ length of the dampers in a torsion beam setup are usually small. i haven't inspected the rear suspension of the swift, so i don't have any idea of any aftermarket gas-filled dampers that can be bolted on to the swift. but i'm sure a proper technician could guide you to the same. p.s- the function of a damper/ shock absorber is to dampen or negate the oscillations/ vibrations produced by any sort of suspension setup/ linkage (the coils/ torsion bars; torsion bars are for front- for amby, safari, etc. torsion beams are for rear). so, all modern suspensions have dampers in them, no matter what the design- trailing link, Mcpherson strut, wishbone- type, solid/ semi-floating axles, parallel links, torsion beam, etc.... p.p.s- another small thing... the actual shock absorber in any suspension setup is the coil/ torsion bar/ leaf spring....the "shock absorber" actually dampens the shocks absorbed by the coils/ torsion bars/leafs....therefore, the "shock absorber" is actually (and technically) called the friction damper....
	() Thanks

19th August 2005, 09:31	#10
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 441 Times	Veyron1, thanks for the useful information. If possible check and see if the oil dampers of the Swift can be replaced with oil filled gas shock absorbers for the rear. Also how much will this cost and are any aftermarket off the shelf gas shock absorbers there that can act as a replacement and whats the cost associated with them?
	() Thanks

20th August 2005, 11:06	#11
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 441 Times	Folks, I am sure some TBHPian can shed some more light on this....
	() Thanks

20th August 2005, 20:08	#15
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,730 Times View My Garage	Aseem Getz and Fusion also have torsion beams. If you want to use those shocks you need to compare the following things. 1. Overall travel 2. Kerb height 3. Jounce Height 4. Rebound Height 5. Shock ratio 6. Compression damping If all these are close, then you can go ahead and use those shocks. If you use too tall of a shock, then the shock piston will contact before the jounce bumper and result in shock breakage because your shock travel is less than your suspension travel. Also since your shock is your rebound stop, the spring might fall off if the shock is too long. If the shock is too short you will not get enough rebound travel. But, looking at the big picture, I dont know if it will solve your harshness problem. ALL shocks have OIL. Gas is used instead of air to prevent frothing....that all. If the gas filled ones have lower compression damping, then it might just solve your problem. I would suggest driving a fully stock car and comparing the ride. If the stock one is better, then its coming from your tires.
	() Thanks