Tata Safari DICOR High Smoke Emission

directinjection · 8th November 2005, 16:22

Dear Members,

After watching (and thoroughly enjoying) this web site for the last few months, I have finally become a member. This is my first post.

Am not too familiar with the message posting formalities and so may be excused for any unintended breach of rules.

I have oberved that the new Tata Safari DICOR emits a lot of thick black smoke from its exhaust pipe, especially when revved. I find this perplexing because the vehicle boasts of a state-of-the-art fuel injection system which is supposed to make the engine more efficient and environment-friendly. In contrast, the Toyota Innova (Japanese technology) and Scorpio CRDI (homegrown, like Safari) emit much less smoke. By now I have seen at least a dozen odd Safari DICORS on the road and each one was found emitting smoke. In fact, the normally aspirated Tata 207 DI (using the same engine but without the DICOR apparatus) emits less smoke than Safari DICOR. Surprising, isn't it?

Any comments on this observation?

Directinjection

Steeroid · 8th November 2005, 16:24

Yes I've noticed high smoke emissions too, but these have been noticed mostly at night through the headlights of the vehicles behind me. I'm sure the same emission is there during the day, but its not as visible as it is at night...which led me to conclude that it is smoke, yes but not BLACK smoke.

Again this is funny because the vehicle is reasonably fuel efficient for a 3-litre motor - I get 11 kmpl consistently and I suppose "normal" driving will see higher returns.

GTO · 8th November 2005, 16:50

My C220 CDI smokes too.

GTO

nitrous · 8th November 2005, 16:54

Why is the engine running so rich? It would give bad mileage because of this too. Any answers from Tata engineers, steeroid??

SUV · 8th November 2005, 18:10

I did speak to Tata's on the emission's they claim that the CAT being used operates at a higher temprature hand hence the emissions are high when the engine is cold. I dont beleive them.

This arguement led me to have them remove the CAT Unit for inspection, And Lo' it was a freeflow type with no Obstruction's !!!!

Can someone through some light on this Type of CAT, I havent heard of this Type till now !! (Forgive My Ignorance

if it does exist)

Steeroid · 8th November 2005, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

Why is the engine running so rich? It would give bad mileage because of this too. Any answers from Tata engineers, steeroid??

I havent really bothered asking them about it because Ive been keeping them busy with real issues. We'll get around to the smoke one of these days, but right now I'd prefer them to concentrate on the homework I keep giving them every now and then.

Like I said, mileage isnt bad - they've claimed that this vehicle can return 13-15 and I'm sure my vehicle can do so with someone else behind the wheel.

Steeroid · 8th November 2005, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUV

This arguement led me to have them remove the CAT Unit for inspection, And Lo' it was a freeflow type with no Obstruction's !!!!

Since it runs a turbo I think the freeflow exhaust is quite fine...BTW my turbo's started kicking in a bit earlier nowadays. Its more like 1500 (I can hear a mild whistle then) now than the 1800 before...

ananthkamath · 8th November 2005, 20:27

I dont think its a cat.....Must be a particulate filter...

veyron1 · 8th November 2005, 21:39

maybe someone has confused the cat-con; in the safari, there are three stages for the exhaust- after the exhaust manifold and headerpipe, follows a cat-con, followed by a pre-muffler exhaust chamber, followed by the muffler. perhaps the chamber was mistaken for the cat-con, as it looks exactly like one...

merve_extreme · 8th November 2005, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

My C220 CDI smokes too.

GTO

Now that is suprising.But does it smoke frequently or only on startup?

BTW.i've seen even the Octavia TDI smoking sometimes.

nitrous · 8th November 2005, 23:41

All diesels smoke. Atleast when they start.Some start bellowing at high rpms.

directinjection · 9th November 2005, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

All diesels smoke. Atleast when they start.Some start bellowing at high rpms.

The one diesel that I know of that doesn’t smoke is the Toyota Qualis. Almost never seen visible smoke coming out of its tail pipe. Does Toyota have the best diesel technology?

Tata vehicles do not have a very good reputation when it comes to smoke emission. A few years back there was a controversy in Mumbai regarding Tata Indicas and Safaris always failing the “Pollution-under-Control” tests and the owners being challaned by cops as a result. Often the cops would challan Indica owners even without testing the vehicle, being convinced that it will anyway fail the test. As a result Tata Motors issued detailed guidelines to dealers (for being passed on to vehicle owners) regarding how to get acceptable results in PUC tests. These included instructions like switching off the AC, keeping the engine on for a few minutes before getting the test done, etc. Detailed info on this subject is available at indica-users@yahoogroups.com.

In fact, most non-DICOR Safaris emit a lot of black smoke (in contrast, Indicas smoke less) and I was expecting the DICOR Safari to be much cleaner.

directinjection

turbo_lover · 9th November 2005, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by directinjection

Scorpio CRDI (homegrown, like Safari) emit much less smoke

scorpio is not homegrown ..its a renault engine..
the smoke is mostly carbon (soot) particals blown out ..i dont think it has anything to do with high pollution levels .. i myself saw the DICOR blow black smoke ..
I really want to know why did happens though especially more in deisel car ?
experts on the forum enlighten us ..

cheers

tsk1979 · 9th November 2005, 15:42

On starting and excessive high revs black smoke means soot deposited in the exaust is being blown out, and its not an issue.
But if black smoke is coming regularly it means
Rich air fuel mixture(Can happen at high alt where air is thin)
this may be due to fault in injector timing, choked air filter, adulterated diesel, dirty injectors blah blah.
People with Safaris which smoke excessively(ie not just at high rpms) try using system D or other injector cleaners and see if problem goes.

@Steeroid, your excursions may have dirtied the air filter.

But more than the black smoke, worry about blue smoke. This means major engine trouble(Piston rings/oil seeping in combustion chamber)

directinjection · 9th November 2005, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo_lover

scorpio is not homegrown ..its a renault engine..
the smoke is mostly carbon (soot) particals blown out ..i dont think it has anything to do with high pollution levels .. i myself saw the DICOR blow black smoke ..
I really want to know why did happens though especially more in deisel car ?
experts on the forum enlighten us ..

cheers

Only the petrol Scorpio has Renault engine. The diesel Scorpio has a homegrown engine developed using inputs from AVL of Austria. Of course, the original parentage of the engine may be of foreign origin, am not too sure about that.

8th November 2005, 16:22	#1
directinjection Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Faridabad/Delhi Posts: 1,705 Thanked: 785 Times	Tata Safari DICOR High Smoke Emission Dear Members, After watching (and thoroughly enjoying) this web site for the last few months, I have finally become a member. This is my first post. Am not too familiar with the message posting formalities and so may be excused for any unintended breach of rules. I have oberved that the new Tata Safari DICOR emits a lot of thick black smoke from its exhaust pipe, especially when revved. I find this perplexing because the vehicle boasts of a state-of-the-art fuel injection system which is supposed to make the engine more efficient and environment-friendly. In contrast, the Toyota Innova (Japanese technology) and Scorpio CRDI (homegrown, like Safari) emit much less smoke. By now I have seen at least a dozen odd Safari DICORS on the road and each one was found emitting smoke. In fact, the normally aspirated Tata 207 DI (using the same engine but without the DICOR apparatus) emits less smoke than Safari DICOR. Surprising, isn't it? Any comments on this observation? Directinjection
	() Thanks

8th November 2005, 16:24	#2
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	Yes I've noticed high smoke emissions too, but these have been noticed mostly at night through the headlights of the vehicles behind me. I'm sure the same emission is there during the day, but its not as visible as it is at night...which led me to conclude that it is smoke, yes but not BLACK smoke. Again this is funny because the vehicle is reasonably fuel efficient for a 3-litre motor - I get 11 kmpl consistently and I suppose "normal" driving will see higher returns. Last edited by Steeroid : 8th November 2005 at 16:27.
	() Thanks

8th November 2005, 16:50	#3
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,546 Thanked: 300,785 Times View My Garage	My C220 CDI smokes too. GTO
	() Thanks

8th November 2005, 16:54	#4
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Why is the engine running so rich? It would give bad mileage because of this too. Any answers from Tata engineers, steeroid??
	() Thanks

8th November 2005, 18:10	#5
SUV BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: BLR Posts: 256 Thanked: 3 Times	I did speak to Tata's on the emission's they claim that the CAT being used operates at a higher temprature hand hence the emissions are high when the engine is cold. I dont beleive them. This arguement led me to have them remove the CAT Unit for inspection, And Lo' it was a freeflow type with no Obstruction's !!!! Can someone through some light on this Type of CAT, I havent heard of this Type till now !! (Forgive My Ignorance if it does exist)
	() Thanks

8th November 2005, 20:27	#8
ananthkamath Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mangalore Posts: 1,209 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	I dont think its a cat.....Must be a particulate filter...
	() Thanks

8th November 2005, 21:39	#9
veyron1 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,424 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	maybe someone has confused the cat-con; in the safari, there are three stages for the exhaust- after the exhaust manifold and headerpipe, follows a cat-con, followed by a pre-muffler exhaust chamber, followed by the muffler. perhaps the chamber was mistaken for the cat-con, as it looks exactly like one...
	() Thanks

8th November 2005, 23:41	#11
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	All diesels smoke. Atleast when they start.Some start bellowing at high rpms.
	() Thanks

9th November 2005, 15:42	#14
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	On starting and excessive high revs black smoke means soot deposited in the exaust is being blown out, and its not an issue. But if black smoke is coming regularly it means Rich air fuel mixture(Can happen at high alt where air is thin) this may be due to fault in injector timing, choked air filter, adulterated diesel, dirty injectors blah blah. People with Safaris which smoke excessively(ie not just at high rpms) try using system D or other injector cleaners and see if problem goes. @Steeroid, your excursions may have dirtied the air filter. But more than the black smoke, worry about blue smoke. This means major engine trouble(Piston rings/oil seeping in combustion chamber)
	() Thanks