Power steering to manual steering?

ramzsys · 8th July 2010, 18:49

Just got a leak from the power steering of the ford ikon. When it made sense to replace the unit(cost about 20k) i thought of why not run it in manual for some time, just to get the maximum out of the outgoing box. I also drive a diesel padmini, so arm flexing is not a issue.

PS: just thought about the load to the steering rod(or shaft) also. Is there any excessive mechanical strain to it?

jav · 8th July 2010, 19:18

If the leak is not big why dont you keep topping up the oil and run it as power steering? where is the power steering leaking from ?

yzfrj · 8th July 2010, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Just got a leak from the power steering

There are folks who will refurbish the thing for a fraction of the cost.
Not sure how good it will be.

If the leak is small what jav suggested makes sense.

adityamunshi · 8th July 2010, 19:49

Dont get it done by local mechanics. I fell for it and ended up with a PS that was harder than a manual steering, didnt leak though !

Quote:

Originally Posted by yzfrj

There are folks who will refurbish the thing for a fraction of the cost.
Not sure how good it will be.

If the leak is small what jav suggested makes sense.

TaureanBull · 8th July 2010, 19:56

IMO its got to be one! either you keep topping up oil and use it, I mean use it as a power steering. Or you can get it modified to manual. The steering rod in power steering is not as strong as the manual steering.

You can not make the power steering manual by simply draining the oil. The power required to steer in this case would be extremely high. There are no bearings like manual steering. Without oil, the drive can not be passed/passed with extreme difficulty.

ramzsys · 8th July 2010, 20:28

The leak is from the box- it is dribbling towards the right side tie rod. If the leak is gradual i can use the top up idea, but this is a kind of full drain some times and no leak sometime.
I dont think there can be variation to the steering shaft. Anyway, have sent people to fetch a box from coimbatore scrapyard.

yzfrj · 8th July 2010, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramzsys

The leak is from the box- it is dribbling towards the right side tie rod.

How "bad" is the leak ?
PS Fluid level is dropping every day ? Week ?

If the drop in level is minimal (I'll let you be the judge of that) you can keep a bottle of PS Fluid and top-up. If the drop in level is low, it would be better not to touch the thing, if its gets worse then think about the options.

TaureanBull · 8th July 2010, 21:19

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johnruben · 8th July 2010, 21:27

I had same issue with my old Esteem Power Steering, the Leak was not big, but twice in a month i had to topup the power steering oil, i had used with same condition for around 4 months and power steering oil i used was castrol and was expensive.

Once the oil fully drains you hear noise when using steering and its irritating, i think it does cause damage to the system.

If you are planning to keep the car for some more years better fix this issue or temporarily keep topping up and dont run without oil, Good luck.

sureshshanmugam · 9th July 2010, 07:32

Hi Ramzsys,
Try the Mettupalayam scrap yard too. I found lot of AC compressors and steering units there.

good Luck

ramzsys · 9th July 2010, 11:34

Am back from ukkadam.
Hell a lot of cars(accidental scraps) and many ford ikons too.
THoroughly rubbished the area, and found two or three pumps in 'decent looking' condition. One dealer was ready to scrap one from an accidental piece.
He demanded 6k.
Meanwhile i got a call from the workshop that for 9.2K, a new box(imported) can be obtained and i have to pay for it in advance, as the part have to be 'imported' from Bombay. I dont know whether it is airborne or something. Pardon my sarcasm.

Well this 9.2k box is probably a used one, refurbished, and comes with a 6 month warranty.

Another guy offered me to repair the current box itself, and he is quite sure that he had repaired quite a number of ikon boxes. Estimate 2k to 4k.

I got a kind of spooky feeling in the scrapyard with too many cars(including a crashed palio 1.6) and so decided to use a brand new box. Period.

@TaureanBull No i mean the leak is so unpredictable: sometimes it loses all the PS fluid and sometimes there is no leak at all.

But my original question is : PS to manual steering conversion

Is it possible?
If so, how?

OT: managed to pickup a right side tail light for the ikon for 500 Rs. There are almost brand new looking headlights available, and the rate they quote was reasonable too.

TaureanBull · 9th July 2010, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Am back from ukkadam.
Hell a lot of cars(accidental scraps) and many ford ikons too.
THoroughly rubbished the area, and found two or three pumps in 'decent looking' condition. One dealer was ready to scrap one from an accidental piece.
He demanded 6k.
Meanwhile i got a call from the workshop that for 9.2K, a new box(imported) can be obtained and i have to pay for it in advance, as the part have to be 'imported' from Bombay. I dont know whether it is airborne or something. Pardon my sarcasm.

Well this 9.2k box is probably a used one, refurbished, and comes with a 6 month warranty.

Another guy offered me to repair the current box itself, and he is quite sure that he had repaired quite a number of ikon boxes. Estimate 2k to 4k.

I got a kind of spooky feeling in the scrapyard with too many cars(including a crashed palio 1.6) and so decided to use a brand new box. Period.

@TaureanBull No i mean the leak is so unpredictable: sometimes it loses all the PS fluid and sometimes there is no leak at all.

But my original question is : PS to manual steering conversion

Is it possible?
If so, how?

OT: managed to pickup a right side tail light for the ikon for 500 Rs. There are almost brand new looking headlights available, and the rate they quote was reasonable too.

1. Yes PS to MS is possible but it wont be that simple. The cost involved could be anywhere near (if not more) what has been quoted for various stuff.

2. If I am not wrong in Ford Ikon its Power Assisted rack and pinion type of PS. In short, to convert it to MS you would have to take out the piston cylinder in the rack and the rotary valve. Then take out the fluid connections and seal them. The space created in the linkages would have to be completed with appropriate tie rod. Even then IMO it would not be an effective MS.

3. The leak could be as simple as a damaged packing seal. Why dont you get it investigated thoroughly? I dont think there is any major part which has been damaged.

ramzsys · 9th July 2010, 17:53

Repairing the PS unit is a not so reliable job, i have heard. Also the car has run 1,80,000 clicks in the odo(and still going strong).

joshguy · 9th July 2010, 18:58

ramzsys

Please go the new one or get it refurbished at a good workshop,both are recommended

You cannot convert the PS to MS and someone in the forum said that PS(without oil) will be lighter than MS.I Beg to differ,I once left my indica in a big pothhole (thanks to corporation road works) and the steering became very very tight.

My indica was DLE and i fitted PS in it.

ghpk · 9th July 2010, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramzsys

No i mean the leak is so unpredictable: sometimes it loses all the PS fluid and sometimes there is no leak at all.

if the leak is the only thing, have you taken a second opinion about your PS unit.
in my case, although it was the same threat as it can be Rs.200-20k it turned out to be a Missed/bad Screw in my santro.

If you have not already taken multiple quotes, please do so, sometimes you find a solution at reasonable cost.

8th July 2010, 18:49	#1
ramzsys Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NH209 Posts: 1,775 Thanked: 1,462 Times	Power steering to manual steering? Just got a leak from the power steering of the ford ikon. When it made sense to replace the unit(cost about 20k) i thought of why not run it in manual for some time, just to get the maximum out of the outgoing box. I also drive a diesel padmini, so arm flexing is not a issue. PS: just thought about the load to the steering rod(or shaft) also. Is there any excessive mechanical strain to it?
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 19:18	#2
jav BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 224 Thanked: 66 Times	If the leak is not big why dont you keep topping up the oil and run it as power steering? where is the power steering leaking from ? Last edited by jav : 8th July 2010 at 19:20.
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 19:56	#5
TaureanBull Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Delhi Posts: 1,071 Thanked: 326 Times View My Garage	IMO its got to be one! either you keep topping up oil and use it, I mean use it as a power steering. Or you can get it modified to manual. The steering rod in power steering is not as strong as the manual steering. You can not make the power steering manual by simply draining the oil. The power required to steer in this case would be extremely high. There are no bearings like manual steering. Without oil, the drive can not be passed/passed with extreme difficulty.
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 20:28	#6
ramzsys Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NH209 Posts: 1,775 Thanked: 1,462 Times	The leak is from the box- it is dribbling towards the right side tie rod. If the leak is gradual i can use the top up idea, but this is a kind of full drain some times and no leak sometime. I dont think there can be variation to the steering shaft. Anyway, have sent people to fetch a box from coimbatore scrapyard.
	() Thanks

8th July 2010, 21:19	#8
TaureanBull Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Delhi Posts: 1,071 Thanked: 326 Times View My Garage	Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post one-liners that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the overall quality of this forum. Please read our rules before proceeding any further. Last edited by GTO : 9th July 2010 at 18:11.
	() Thanks $Received Infraction$

8th July 2010, 21:27	#9
johnruben BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 221 Thanked: 85 Times View My Garage	I had same issue with my old Esteem Power Steering, the Leak was not big, but twice in a month i had to topup the power steering oil, i had used with same condition for around 4 months and power steering oil i used was castrol and was expensive. Once the oil fully drains you hear noise when using steering and its irritating, i think it does cause damage to the system. If you are planning to keep the car for some more years better fix this issue or temporarily keep topping up and dont run without oil, Good luck.
	() Thanks

9th July 2010, 07:32	#10
sureshshanmugam BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 79 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	Hi Ramzsys, Try the Mettupalayam scrap yard too. I found lot of AC compressors and steering units there. good Luck
	() Thanks

9th July 2010, 11:34	#11
ramzsys Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NH209 Posts: 1,775 Thanked: 1,462 Times	Am back from ukkadam. Hell a lot of cars(accidental scraps) and many ford ikons too. THoroughly rubbished the area, and found two or three pumps in 'decent looking' condition. One dealer was ready to scrap one from an accidental piece. He demanded 6k. Meanwhile i got a call from the workshop that for 9.2K, a new box(imported) can be obtained and i have to pay for it in advance, as the part have to be 'imported' from Bombay. I dont know whether it is airborne or something. Pardon my sarcasm. Well this 9.2k box is probably a used one, refurbished, and comes with a 6 month warranty. Another guy offered me to repair the current box itself, and he is quite sure that he had repaired quite a number of ikon boxes. Estimate 2k to 4k. I got a kind of spooky feeling in the scrapyard with too many cars(including a crashed palio 1.6) and so decided to use a brand new box. Period. @TaureanBull No i mean the leak is so unpredictable: sometimes it loses all the PS fluid and sometimes there is no leak at all. But my original question is : PS to manual steering conversion Is it possible? If so, how? OT: managed to pickup a right side tail light for the ikon for 500 Rs. There are almost brand new looking headlights available, and the rate they quote was reasonable too.
	() Thanks

9th July 2010, 17:53	#13
ramzsys Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NH209 Posts: 1,775 Thanked: 1,462 Times	Repairing the PS unit is a not so reliable job, i have heard. Also the car has run 1,80,000 clicks in the odo(and still going strong).
	() Thanks

9th July 2010, 18:58	#14
joshguy BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,379 Thanked: 109 Times	ramzsys Please go the new one or get it refurbished at a good workshop,both are recommended You cannot convert the PS to MS and someone in the forum said that PS(without oil) will be lighter than MS.I Beg to differ,I once left my indica in a big pothhole (thanks to corporation road works) and the steering became very very tight. My indica was DLE and i fitted PS in it.
	() Thanks