[mdsaab]

Originally Posted by _raVan_

Excellent comparison mdsaab.

I have some points to add here. You mentioned that the drivers seat offers the same kind of adjustment in both city and civic, which i disagree. I am 6.2'. In the City, on the lowest height, my hair grazes the ceiling, whereas in the Civic, i had adequate head room. It might depend on the face that Civic is more low seating, but I think Civic offers more levels of height adjustment than the City (though I dont know for sure).
I note your point. I think it is mainly due to the fact that the Civic seating position is much lower than the City. But will check it out once again and confirm.

Also in the driveability part, I think the Civic easily outdoes the City. With 5 passengers on board, the City was okayish in its acceleration, but under the EXACT same conditions, the Civic pulled as it would do naturally. Ofcourse the 1.8 iVTEC comes into play here.
You bet, the Civic delivers it's power in a very linear, creamy way. The City while good just can't match up to the Civic.
Regarding the fuel efficiency, under hard driving both car suffers, but under light driving, I have heard bhpians claim around 19kmpl on their Civic. I dont think there is a 40% difference between the City and the Civic.
Believe me after living with both these beauties. I can see a substantial saving in my fuel bills after using the City more often.
Like i mentioned earlier both cars are extremely sensitive, to your pressure on the accelerator. Even a slight prod more and the fuel efficiency has the potential to nosedive.
The plastics in the city will wear out soon. The City test drive car that had run for 23k kms had their arm rests on the door completely worn out and it left a bad taste about the quality. The Civic test drive car which had run for 27k kms had everything intact.
Agreed. The Civic is definately built better than the City. And it should be too, since it is a class above the City.
Finally about the actual driving experience. The seating position + lookout of the road in the City is like any other sedan (personal experience), but in the Civic its something different that you wont find in ANY other car in its segment. As its rightly said, its a cockpit that you wouldnt feel like leaving if you love driving!
Couldn't agree with you more. The magic of the Civic instrumentation is truly awe inspiring especially during twilight.
I would highly recommend the Civic if one is juggling between the City and the Civic and has the money to burn
Thanks for your vote.
Well, andaz apna apna

You Bet!

Originally Posted by sgiitk

One other point. Climate control exists only on the Civic. Also, the intermittent wipe was better on my Accent than on even the Civic. There was a potentiometer you could adjust to select the wiper rate. Not just one position!

Hello there Professor! Yes climate control as of now is not available on the City. But the facelift around the corner is rumored to have this feature.

Originally Posted by Ace F355

Well documented comparo, mdsaab. You are indeed being missed on the forum for some time now. Was waiting for this comparo from your side. You have covered almost all areas very nicely. And some real good pics...
Thanks buddy for your kind words. Many more pics to come. So stay tuned.
@ Ravan: I agree with all your points other than FE. City is mush more fuel efficient than the Civic be it in the city driving or the highway, period. I hear City owners getting 14-15 kpl on regular basis, while in Civic the number falls down to 10-11 kpl. However when it comes to extracting the best mileage, Honda surely can blow the other brands out of the window. I recently saw a post on the forum about 22 kpl from a Civic!
I agree! i have experienced the savings in fuel bills first hand. The City is a lot more fuel efficient in my experience.
Put the AC off, take the car to nearest highway, hypermile it cruising between 65-75 kph. This feat is very well in your sight! BUTTTTTT, whats the point, I fail to understand it !!!!! Honda are built to revvv, drive them as they are supposed to. At least thats what I do.

Yes have a blast every once in while, but on a daily basis like going to the office you want to save as much fuel as possible. Not only for your own pockets but for the environment too.

Originally Posted by laluks

Exactly my point too. If I wanted 22KMPL, I would have taken a nano or a diesel swift or similar cars and driven it on the highway with the ac on, and it still gives me decent 20+ KMPL, without troubling me. Why should I buy a beautiful luxurios sporty sedan and trouble myself with no ac and crawl, to fork out mileage?? Each Car has a character IMHO!

I understand Civic can give 22KMPL - Thank you for the tests. Period.



dotty and mdsaab - nice comparison.
One point from me is the front Passenger seat. I can keep all my camera gears and tripod in the leg room, and still sit relaxed in the Civic. In City since there is some elevated stuff under the front passenger seat, and lack of leg room makes that very difficult. So I did not personally like traveling with my camera gear in City's front passenger seat.

But if its just me, I find both cars comfortable.
You are right there is just that bit more space in the Civic. And in the cubby's department there is just no comparison. The Civic has quite a few nifty places to store both small and large items.


Another query, the City's boot is carved so low down. Does it not create some scrapping issues on humps? Visually it looked too low.

Yes i have faced this issue once while exiting a car park. The rear just below the boot got scraped. Funny this has not happened on the road in both cars in Pune. EVER!

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

So, its finally here. Havent read the whole thing yet, but shall do so with leisure.

I second noops question - Whre on earth have you been all this while!

Hey there Bro. Firstly congratulations on your new Superb! Wishing you many miles of joyful motoring bliss!
Well like i said, am hear now.

Originally Posted by mkpiyengar

@mdsaab,
Wonderful comparo, with subtle differences pointed out between the two cars.

Bottom line conclusion for me would be
City for City and Civic for Highways

Should have both in the garage!!

Cheers
MKPI

You bet! nothing like having both of them in your garage.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

@mdsaab

Nice comparison between the Honda siblings. Although The civic feels more comfortable I think in the looks section City scores over the Civic (my personal opinion).
Yes from some angles the City has very sharp aggresive lines, where the Civic does go a little soft. Both look fantastic though. in some areas it's the Civic which nudges ahead, and in some the City.
I will be re-reading it again at leisure but truly a well written post and justified by nice pics. Rated the thread 5 stars.

Thanks buddy.

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Yep, life got the better of me for awhile, but whenever I had the chance I stopped by T-BHP to see if this very thread was up yet or not. And here it is! And here I am!
Thanks Bro!
Waiting eagerly for more pics, bro. Hoping that you dust them and polish them soon from your editing table and post it here!
Absolutely more pics will definately be joining this thread.


I bet. Wish I was there to share the experience. It would have been pretty overwhelming to be sorrounded by 3 smoking Hondas and 2 Honda fanatics!
Yes it was an awesome experience.


ROFL!

If only the guys at Pirelli and Kingfisher knew! They would triple their annual sales!
LOL!

I do have a query here regarding this -



From what I have read, there are better headlamps available for the City (which can be fitted with relays and offer much better lights at night). Would you still go with the Civic if, say, the City's lights were to be upgraded?

In other words, would you tilt in favor of the Civic for driveability at night in different conditions - for example, foggy or rainy nights, as opposed to a clear night?

No i think it would still be the Civic which would be ahead. Even if the City had upgraded bulbs. The lack of having separate bulbs for low and high beams makes a huge difference.

[Ace F355]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

Yes have a blast every once in while, but on a daily basis like going to the office you want to save as much fuel as possible. Not only for your own pockets but for the environment too.

Nice. Your Chicca looks brilliant BTW. Hoping harsh Pune roadies are treating her right.

I have started to get easy on my Shark after alloy upgrade. Now a days, I redline her only when roads permit, othervise she is in fuel saving mode only.

[mdsaab]

Originally Posted by Ace F355

Nice. Your Chicca looks brilliant BTW. Hoping harsh Pune roadies are treating her right.

I have started to get easy on my Shark after alloy upgrade. Now a days, I redline her only when roads permit, othervise she is in fuel saving mode only.

Thanks Bro! The less said about Pune roads the better, They are in an absolute mess at the moment. and the ride in both these Honda's has gone for a toss. These Beauties prefer smooth tarmac. Period!

That's the perfect combo of indulgence and Civic Sense! LOL!

---
One more point which i would like to share.
The Civic displays the outside temperature which i feel is quite an important feature. In the City you are left clueless about the temperature outside.

Forgot if i mentioned this or not. The Civic with 2 trip meters is also way more useful than the City's lone trip meter.

[noopster]

OK- am back as promised!

When shopping around for a C/C+ segment last year, it occurred to me what a VFM offering the City is: quite the "practical" choice to someone who feels the Civic's 13+ price tag is a stretch. In fact I never seriously considered the Civic at all, despite the likes of GTO and dot urging me to look at good used options.

This thread has covered the main points, just adding my two cents here:

• Civic needs an integrated keyfob- one segment lower cars are getting this these days
• Its dashboard blows everything else away and is the ONLY reason I'd consider paying the premium over the much more VFM City. Call me shallow but it appeals to the nerd in me!
• Both cars lack the current gear display (D2, D3 etc.) which my Vento has and I think it's a shocking omission. At least the Civic should get this.
• I find the Civic's steering wheel too small: it takes quite some getting used to! Chunky wheels R Us!
• Civic HU nothing to write home about, though the integrated look and feel is awesome. Similar to my Vento (pre-refresh) in this regard. Deserves better.
• Ride quality of Civic is a winner. At least on the Lavasa twisties, GC didn't seem to be an issue and the car handled like a dream. City when I TDed it seemed OK-ish.
• Cubby holes/interior lighting/overall look and feel- no compare. Civic is the king here. In fact I am very disappointed that Honda is opting for the family look in the 2012 Civic- the current gen LOOKS premium and should be a favourite even after the new one is launched.
• ACC is always desirable but as long as it chills, why worry!

[mdsaab]

Originally Posted by noopster

OK- am back as promised!
Hey Noops, glad to see you back.

When shopping around for a C/C+ segment last year, it occurred to me what a VFM offering the City is: quite the "practical" choice to someone who feels the Civic's 13+ price tag is a stretch. In fact I never seriously considered the Civic at all, despite the likes of GTO and dot urging me to look at good used options.
Totally agree with you, the City is quite a great package. and now with the price correction seems good vfm.

This thread has covered the main points, just adding my two cents here:

• Civic needs an integrated keyfob- one segment lower cars are getting this these days

Yes this is something which has taken Honda too long to add to. Only the Honda Accord has it at the moment. Infact if you have more than one Honda at home it can get quite confusing as to which key to pick up. For me, i pick up the key and physically check the lock/unlock markings. the duller one is the civic key and the City ones are obviously brighter being newer.

• Its dashboard blows everything else away and is the ONLY reason I'd consider paying the premium over the much more VFM City. Call me shallow but it appeals to the nerd in me!

LOL! Ok dashboard is definately a show stopper. but there is a little more too that the Civic offers which will have you going for it.

• Both cars lack the current gear display (D2, D3 etc.) which my Vento has and I think it's a shocking omission. At least the Civic should get this.

Both should get it IMHO. It's a real useful feature to have.

• I find the Civic's steering wheel too small: it takes quite some getting used to! Chunky wheels R Us!

Yes you bet, The City has a way more chunky steering, and am loving it. When i go back to driving the Civic after the City i miss the chunkiness.

• Civic HU nothing to write home about, though the integrated look and feel is awesome. Similar to my Vento (pre-refresh) in this regard. Deserves better.

Yes it blends in well with the dash. The facelifted Civic gets USB etc. But on my wishlist for the new Civic is integrated touchscreen with Nav etc.

• Ride quality of Civic is a winner. At least on the Lavasa twisties, GC didn't seem to be an issue and the car handled like a dream. City when I TDed it seemed OK-ish.

Yes the Civic is more planted on the expressway as well as the twisties.

• Cubby holes/interior lighting/overall look and feel- no compare. Civic is the king here. In fact I am very disappointed that Honda is opting for the family look in the 2012 Civic- the current gen LOOKS premium and should be a favourite even after the new one is launched.

Totally agree!

• ACC is always desirable but as long as it chills, why worry!

Chilling part is no issue at all in the City. It's when you want that exact cabin temperature that it gets frustrating. Though with a little understanding of the system you can manage to get it to work pretty much like an ACC. But still ACC would be much easier to get the desired cabin temperature.

[sbhasin]

How about GC? Which one is better? Have been tempted several times to go out and buy either a second hand civic or city, but terrible stories on GC, especially for those of us in Bangalore, have kept me away...

[mdsaab]

Originally Posted by sbhasin

How about GC? Which one is better? Have been tempted several times to go out and buy either a second hand civic or city, but terrible stories on GC, especially for those of us in Bangalore, have kept me away...

That is one very important question, many have a doubt on the GC of these Honda's. and coming from Speed Breaker Central(Bangalore) i can totally understand why this is an important Q for you.

Let's gather some facts first.

Civic
GC ~ 170mm
Wheelbase ~ 2700mm

City
GC ~ 160mm
Wheelbase ~ 2550mm

This is the way i look at it.
It's not only the GC that makes a difference it's the wheelbase too.
Here is where the Pre-facelift Civic suffered. Softer suspension, and a long wheelbase meant that while crossing certain high speedbreakers it would scrape the bottom. and believe me the crunching sound of the car bottoming out on the tarmac was heart crunching.
It seems Honda fixed this problem in the facelifted Civic by stiffening the suspension and the facelifted civic no longer has this problem of bottoming out on high speedbreakers.

The City thus far has not bottomed out on Pune roads in my experience.
Though the one area where is it's weak point is the lower part of the suspension right under the boot. That is quite low and i have scrapped it once while exiting from a rather odd parking slot.

Both these Honda's suffer when there is more load at the rear. So three passengers at the back and the boot filled with luggage you better watch out as there are high chances that it may scrape.

~~~
So how do we tackle this issues?

One correct your driving technique over large speed breakers by transversing them diagonally. Though this is difficult to do in regular city conditions. Even a slight diagonal attacking angle while crossing a speed breaker makes a big difference. and ultimately is the deciding factor between bottoming out or not.

Secondly. One could upgrade the coil springs which would help out quite lot. It's a small modification to be done which is totally reversible should you want to go back to the stock setup. You can read more about this on GTO's brilliant thread on the same.

So if you plan to go in for a pre-owned Civic try and go in for a facelifted example.

Drive Safe!

[sgiitk]

Bottoming does not have all that much to do with the Ground Clearance. What is the GC figure - the height of the lowest point of the car above the road. Now in modern fwd cars this is invariably the bottom of the front suspension/steering mechanism. This will invariably ride over the bump with the wheel, so is irrelevant. What matters is some point (normally inside the wheelbase) or the exhaust which will bottom. Now this will depend on the wheelbase (Civics is long), springing (soft suspension will go down more), and the load. This is why GTO's solution of adding a rubber donut to the coil springs seems to work in most cases http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...uspension.html

[Axe77]

Excellent thread and particularly interesting for me to read since we currently own both vehicles - a 2009 Civic A/T (just before facelift) and a 2009 City A/T. These cars replaced a Swift and an i10 respectively.

I drive both cars regularly as well as get chauffered in each car very regularly so I have some perspective on back seat comfort as well as driving pleasure.

I remember reading ages ago in a City Civic compare on some thread that the City is 90% Civic at 75% price and therefore a good buy. I couldn't disagree more!! While the City may be an excellent purchase within its own segment, the Civic in comparison is streets ahead and at least for me the price differential is worth the money.

Key areas where I find the Civic comfortably out-does the City IMO are as follows

- Comfort (front and rear, particularly rear). Everyone in my family agrees that the Civic is much more comfortable to be driven around in. My mum has finally come around to admitting that the civic (my primary ride) is indeed actually more comfortable to drive as well than the City (which she initially preferred because of the lighter steering).
- Overall refinement. The city is a really buzzy engine and feels strained whereas the Civic feels really creamy and smooth right through the rev range.
- Power: no comparison here. Load up the cars and the Civic will feel much more comfortable accelerating than the City. Its more direct steering also adds to the pleasure associated with its power delivery.
- Steering feedback and overall handling: Civic far superior. I hate lifeless steerings and the City steering (for me at least) takes away significantly from the driving pleasure, particularly since I'm constantly comparing it to the Civic.
- Equipment levels: Again the Civic is much better and the underequipped status of City shows. Simple benefits like electronic folding mirrors are a huge USP to me since I like to use both mirrors almost always (therefore folding at button press in tight situations helps)
- Build quality: The city is well built no doubt, but the Civic just feels a little more solidly put together. I'm not able to explain or elaborate on this but just how I feel in each of the cars.

City pros:
To me the limited pros the City offers is better FE, smaller dimension (useful sometimes); bottoms out less (City is bad but Civic is worse so...) and lastly and most importantly much bigger and more usable boot. The boot in particular is a total joy and those international airport trips necessarily mean that the City will be taken out.

Please bear in mind that I own both cars so there's no personal ownership based bias. These are purely my personal views based on first hand experience - you may of course agree or disagree but like I said, I own both so there's no "my car is better" bias in my analysis.

Left only to my personal consideration, when it comes to replacing one of these cars, I'd upgrade my cars by selling the City and retaining the Civic as opposed to vice versa - lower FE be damned. But that's a matter for another day !!

Cheers all.

[mdsaab]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Bottoming does not have all that much to do with the Ground Clearance. What is the GC figure - the height of the lowest point of the car above the road. Now in modern fwd cars this is invariably the bottom of the front suspension/steering mechanism. This will invariably ride over the bump with the wheel, so is irrelevant. What matters is some point (normally inside the wheelbase) or the exhaust which will bottom. Now this will depend on the wheelbase (Civics is long), springing (soft suspension will go down more), and the load. This is why GTO's solution of adding a rubber donut to the coil springs seems to work in most cases http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...uspension.html

Thanks Professor could not agree with you more.

Originally Posted by Axe77

Excellent thread and particularly interesting for me to read since we currently own both vehicles - a 2009 Civic A/T (just before facelift) and a 2009 City A/T. These cars replaced a Swift and an i10 respectively.
Hey that's awesome. So i see we have the same great taste in our rides
I drive both cars regularly as well as get chauffered in each car very regularly so I have some perspective on back seat comfort as well as driving pleasure.
Here is where i need some help. I have not been at the back very often.

I remember reading ages ago in a City Civic compare on some thread that the City is 90% Civic at 75% price and therefore a good buy. I couldn't disagree more!! While the City may be an excellent purchase within its own segment, the Civic in comparison is streets ahead and at least for me the price differential is worth the money.
Thanks for your view. It's really important.
Key areas where I find the Civic comfortably out-does the City IMO are as follows

- Comfort (front and rear, particularly rear). Everyone in my family agrees that the Civic is much more comfortable to be driven around in. My mum has finally come around to admitting that the civic (my primary ride) is indeed actually more comfortable to drive as well than the City (which she initially preferred because of the lighter steering).
Here is where it stands for me.
If it's within the Urban jungle ~ it's the City for me. Light Steering, light controls, relatively compact dimension(almost feels like a large hatch) It just makes driving within the City so much easier.
If it's for the Highway ~ Then it's the Civic eyes closed. It's Solid, Provides excellent steering feedback, has good high speed manners, especially on the twisties. It's a no-brainer really.
- Overall refinement. The city is a really buzzy engine and feels strained whereas the Civic feels really creamy and smooth right through the rev range.
Yes i have come to realize this too. The City motor can get rather buzzy at times. The Civic is much more quiet and refined. Performance is effortless too.
- Power: no comparison here. Load up the cars and the Civic will feel much more comfortable accelerating than the City. Its more direct steering also adds to the pleasure associated with its power delivery.
This is something i take your word for, would love to to a test on this though, as on paper both cars seem really close. But then that's just on paper ~ real world performance can be hugely different from those figures.
- Steering feedback and overall handling: Civic far superior. I hate lifeless steerings and the City steering (for me at least) takes away significantly from the driving pleasure, particularly since I'm constantly comparing it to the Civic.
Yes the Civic steering is more direct and provides oodles of feedback. Though like i said before within the City i can live without that and prefer the lighter electric unit of the City.
- Equipment levels: Again the Civic is much better and the underequipped status of City shows. Simple benefits like electronic folding mirrors are a huge USP to me since I like to use both mirrors almost always (therefore folding at button press in tight situations helps)
You bet, and yes those auto folding ORVM's do make a huge difference in tight spots. No need to roll down your window and reach out to pull in an ORVM. very irritating and changes the temperature within the cabin again.
- Build quality: The city is well built no doubt, but the Civic just feels a little more solidly put together. I'm not able to explain or elaborate on this but just how I feel in each of the cars.
You are absolutely right. Though the City is built well. The Civic is definately a notch or two higher. Plus it's the small details in the Civic which make it feel more special.

City pros:
To me the limited pros the City offers is better FE, smaller dimension (useful sometimes); bottoms out less (City is bad but Civic is worse so...) and lastly and most importantly much bigger and more usable boot. The boot in particular is a total joy and those international airport trips necessarily mean that the City will be taken out.
Agree with you totally on your City Pro's

Please bear in mind that I own both cars so there's no personal ownership based bias. These are purely my personal views based on first hand experience - you may of course agree or disagree but like I said, I own both so there's no "my car is better" bias in my analysis.
I would like to thank you for sharing your views on both cars.
It's important not only for this thread, but for helping fellow BHPians and others in choosing between these two beauties. and helping them pick out the one which will suit their needs better.
Left only to my personal consideration, when it comes to replacing one of these cars, I'd upgrade my cars by selling the City and retaining the Civic as opposed to vice versa - lower FE be damned. But that's a matter for another day !!
LOL! I get your point. Thanks once again for sharing.
Cheers all.

I would like to request fellow BHPians who own either of these cars to share their views too. As it will help others on the lookout decide which of these two cars suit them better.

[souravc]

Thanks for the well written comparo, rated it 5 stars . More than a year back when i looking to upgrade my car and visited a Honda showroom , the sales guy had asked me to TD the Civic when I went to have a look at the City . I think the dilemna between a City and a Civic is faced by many - my vote goes for the Civic . The digital odo is one to die for apart from the other good things !
I agree with most of your observations though am still vexed by the GC comparo which does not support our observations regarding bottom scraping especially when both are from the same stable and the suspensions are expected to have similar setup ( softness )

[bluevolt]

Nice thread mdsaab; was missing you and charthom for a while now.

Civic is any day a better car than City in all aspects. It handles much better, looks much better and performs much better.

When I was buying Honda City, I too gave Civic a thought but the difference of around 4-5 lacs put my mind off and I went straight away for City. Also the City is more compact and fuel efficient than Civic and power wise also it is quite near to it (118 PS and 132 PS).

City is VFM car in comparison to Civic any day. But if one has bucks then Civic is the car to go for.

[RavenAvi]

The one place where the Civic definitely blows the City clean out of the water IMO is the cockpit.

Just sink into the driving seat of the Civic and have a look at the "Fighter Jet"-esque instrumentation in front of you, and feel your heart suddenly beating "THUMP! THUMP!" into your ears!

[dot]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

The one place where the Civic definitely blows the City clean out of the water IMO is the cockpit.

True, one of the key reason I went for it.

For the folks, who are discussing the key, just wait till I post a pic of a Singapore based 8th gen 08 Civic's key (my Sis-in-law's). It has an remote trunk opener key. I wonder why they missed this very useful feature in India.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by dot

True, one of the key reason I went for it.

For the folks, who are discussing the key, just wait till I post a pic of a Singapore based 8th gen 08 Civic's key (my Sis-in-law's). It has an remote trunk opener key. I wonder why they missed this very useful feature in India.

Maybe they will introduce it in the next-gen one, scheduled to be launched at the Auto Expo 2012.

I, for one, find that as a very useful feature for a car. Most if not all 8L+ cars should come with one by default, actually.