Vibrations after upsize

Knight Rider · 20th June 2006, 19:23

I have an alto and I have currently upgraded to 165/60/13 g3 potenza with aura alloy wheels, I went to pondichery last week and noticed that I could not push the car after 115, The steering seems to shake. Before the upsize I could push it till 125, also After the upsize, the speedo will not gve the actual figures right? Is this behaviour common, or do I need to stiffen my suspension? Help required

mclaren1885 · 20th June 2006, 19:54

Get wheel balancing and alignment done up .. And u will see the shaking of the steering disappear .. Due to the upsize there might be slight error in the speedo read speeds ..

rareone · 20th June 2006, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Get wheel balancing and alignment done up .. And u will see the shaking of the steering disappear .. Due to the upsize there might be slight error in the speedo read speeds ..

go in for wheel alignment and balancing most of the problem will disappear.

drifter · 20th June 2006, 20:20

Also hub rings might be the order of the day.

Read the link for more details.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...oy-wheels.html

Drifter

Knight Rider · 20th June 2006, 23:06

Team, Thanks a lot for all the replies . I did alignment immedietly after the upsize, I took the car to bimal just to see if there is an issue with the alignment, He told me that there were no problems whatsoever, I felt that the vehicle was drifting to the right, But when he drove it he tod me that it was very marginal and an alignment would not required. I am really confused now......

Rehaan · 20th June 2006, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Rider

Team, Thanks a lot for all the replies . I did alignment immedietly after the upsize, I took the car to bimal just to see if there is an issue with the alignment, He told me that there were no problems whatsoever, I felt that the vehicle was drifting to the right, But when he drove it he tod me that it was very marginal and an alignment would not required. I am really confused now......

Dynamic balancing is what should sort out your steering shake issue.
Was it done after the tyres were mounted on the rims?

cya
R

Knight Rider · 20th June 2006, 23:40

Thank you rehaan, Yes I did the alignment from the same shop I got the wheels were mounted on the rims, I got everything done from that shop itself..

Sankar · 21st June 2006, 08:22

The speedo should show more speed than the with the stock tires because your new 165/60 potenza and the 13" alloys are having less wheel diameter than with your stock 145/80 profile 12" wheels. So 115 is way too less.

Steering shaking is clearly due to imbalanced wheels. Get the wheel dynamically balanced at some other shop which uses a latest or new machine. I have got better results with the shop having a newer machine.

Also is the tyre properly installed? The run out markings of each tyre when installed should be on the outer side of both the wheels, failing which the car may have a tendency to pull to one side. And also when the tire is installed care should be taken to align a few marks on the tire to wheel (valve stem for eg) so that minimum balancing is required. Of course it's not necessary but is better.

I'm using same Bridgestone Potenza's on 12" Aura alloys and there was no problem whatsoever. When i got the tyre&wheel combo (from Edmund) i was amazed to find not even a single balancing weight on the wheels and there was no vibration even at speeds above 110. The tyre guy who fit the tyres on the wheels did know how to do a good job. I got it balanced only recently after i had a puncture.

You cannot fit hubcentric rings on an Alto because the wheels are centered and aligned on the studs itself, the center bore of the stock steel wheel itself does not sit on the hub.

Where in Cochi did you get the wheels and the tyres?

Rehaan · 21st June 2006, 10:20

As Sankar says, you might want to try out a shop with a newer machine if your current shop's machine seems outdated or in bad condition.

Also read this link > http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-how-come.html

cya
R

Rtech · 21st June 2006, 10:27

It could also be a case of the alloys having an incorrect PCD or offset that causes this vibration. Are these specs the same as the OE specs?

speedsatya · 21st June 2006, 10:48

hi,
like everyone said ...i think ur tire problem is mainly because of improper balancing ...get the balancing and alignment done at another shop ...
also check if the pcd of the rims is correct ...
and wat size rims are u using ?????5j is the optimum size ....

and as ur tire circumference is lesser than OE ur speedo will be showing more than the actual speed...but due to wider footprint your top speed will reduce.

Knight Rider · 21st June 2006, 15:32

Thanks for all the suggestions team, I will dothe alignment once again to see if the problem persists,

Sankar, I did check about the markings because I remember a lancer done up by chameleon and the way they put the tyres were wrong, As far as the instalation goes, I am not very sure about how well they did it because this is the first time I am changing my wheels, as a matter of fact my first car as well.

I got the tyres from bangalore and the alloys from cochin, There is a big difference as far as the rates are concerned.

Speedsatya, the rims that I am using are 5j, I checked it after you advised me about the same in another thread. Thank you..

Rehaan · 21st June 2006, 15:41

Just remember in your case, gettin the balancing done is more important than alignment.

cya
R

Sankar · 21st June 2006, 15:54

Knight Rider, i didnt mean the tyre rotation direction, what i meant was the runout line, it's usually marked red around the circumference of the tyre and after some use the colour wears out. The runout if not correctly installed 'could' cause dragging to one side, but not neccesarily, alignment could be the problem. Get the alignment too done from another shop, there shouldn't be any drifting to either side if alignment is done properly.

Read about the runout stripe here http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html

His offset would be 38 most probably, Knight check it when you remove the wheel next time, it's written on the inside surface of the alloy where it mates to the hub. Offset of 40 or 38 is okay for Alto. Wheel with a different PCD wouldn't fit the hub as it should or wouldn't fit at all. It'll easily come to notice while fitting.

Knight Rider · 21st June 2006, 20:56

Yes rehaan, I am going to do the balancing and the alignment this weekend, Sankar I never knew about the run-out lines, Thank you for sharing the information with me, Yes I did notice the red patch running across the circumfarance of the tyre.When I get my alignment done I will surely check it

20th June 2006, 19:23	#1
Knight Rider BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 283 Thanked: 28 Times	Vibrations after upsize I have an alto and I have currently upgraded to 165/60/13 g3 potenza with aura alloy wheels, I went to pondichery last week and noticed that I could not push the car after 115, The steering seems to shake. Before the upsize I could push it till 125, also After the upsize, the speedo will not gve the actual figures right? Is this behaviour common, or do I need to stiffen my suspension? Help required
	() Thanks

20th June 2006, 19:54	#2
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 46 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	Get wheel balancing and alignment done up .. And u will see the shaking of the steering disappear .. Due to the upsize there might be slight error in the speedo read speeds ..
	() Thanks

20th June 2006, 20:20	#4
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	Also hub rings might be the order of the day. Read the link for more details. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...oy-wheels.html Drifter
	() Thanks

20th June 2006, 23:06	#5
Knight Rider BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 283 Thanked: 28 Times	Team, Thanks a lot for all the replies . I did alignment immedietly after the upsize, I took the car to bimal just to see if there is an issue with the alignment, He told me that there were no problems whatsoever, I felt that the vehicle was drifting to the right, But when he drove it he tod me that it was very marginal and an alignment would not required. I am really confused now......
	() Thanks

20th June 2006, 23:40	#7
Knight Rider BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 283 Thanked: 28 Times	Thank you rehaan, Yes I did the alignment from the same shop I got the wheels were mounted on the rims, I got everything done from that shop itself..
	() Thanks

21st June 2006, 08:22	#8
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,778 Thanked: 9,212 Times	The speedo should show more speed than the with the stock tires because your new 165/60 potenza and the 13" alloys are having less wheel diameter than with your stock 145/80 profile 12" wheels. So 115 is way too less. Steering shaking is clearly due to imbalanced wheels. Get the wheel dynamically balanced at some other shop which uses a latest or new machine. I have got better results with the shop having a newer machine. Also is the tyre properly installed? The run out markings of each tyre when installed should be on the outer side of both the wheels, failing which the car may have a tendency to pull to one side. And also when the tire is installed care should be taken to align a few marks on the tire to wheel (valve stem for eg) so that minimum balancing is required. Of course it's not necessary but is better. I'm using same Bridgestone Potenza's on 12" Aura alloys and there was no problem whatsoever. When i got the tyre&wheel combo (from Edmund) i was amazed to find not even a single balancing weight on the wheels and there was no vibration even at speeds above 110. The tyre guy who fit the tyres on the wheels did know how to do a good job. I got it balanced only recently after i had a puncture. You cannot fit hubcentric rings on an Alto because the wheels are centered and aligned on the studs itself, the center bore of the stock steel wheel itself does not sit on the hub. Where in Cochi did you get the wheels and the tyres?
	() Thanks

21st June 2006, 10:20	#9
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,295 Thanked: 35,331 Times	As Sankar says, you might want to try out a shop with a newer machine if your current shop's machine seems outdated or in bad condition. Also read this link > http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-how-come.html cya R
	() Thanks

21st June 2006, 10:27	#10
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 365 Times View My Garage	It could also be a case of the alloys having an incorrect PCD or offset that causes this vibration. Are these specs the same as the OE specs?
	() Thanks

21st June 2006, 10:48	#11
speedsatya Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: bangalore/manga Posts: 3,169 Thanked: 738 Times View My Garage	hi, like everyone said ...i think ur tire problem is mainly because of improper balancing ...get the balancing and alignment done at another shop ... also check if the pcd of the rims is correct ... and wat size rims are u using ?????5j is the optimum size .... and as ur tire circumference is lesser than OE ur speedo will be showing more than the actual speed...but due to wider footprint your top speed will reduce.
	() Thanks

21st June 2006, 15:32	#12
Knight Rider BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 283 Thanked: 28 Times	Thanks for all the suggestions team, I will dothe alignment once again to see if the problem persists, Sankar, I did check about the markings because I remember a lancer done up by chameleon and the way they put the tyres were wrong, As far as the instalation goes, I am not very sure about how well they did it because this is the first time I am changing my wheels, as a matter of fact my first car as well. I got the tyres from bangalore and the alloys from cochin, There is a big difference as far as the rates are concerned. Speedsatya, the rims that I am using are 5j, I checked it after you advised me about the same in another thread. Thank you..
	() Thanks

21st June 2006, 15:41	#13
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,295 Thanked: 35,331 Times	Just remember in your case, gettin the balancing done is more important than alignment. cya R
	() Thanks

21st June 2006, 15:54	#14
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,778 Thanked: 9,212 Times	Knight Rider, i didnt mean the tyre rotation direction, what i meant was the runout line, it's usually marked red around the circumference of the tyre and after some use the colour wears out. The runout if not correctly installed 'could' cause dragging to one side, but not neccesarily, alignment could be the problem. Get the alignment too done from another shop, there shouldn't be any drifting to either side if alignment is done properly. Read about the runout stripe here http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html His offset would be 38 most probably, Knight check it when you remove the wheel next time, it's written on the inside surface of the alloy where it mates to the hub. Offset of 40 or 38 is okay for Alto. Wheel with a different PCD wouldn't fit the hub as it should or wouldn't fit at all. It'll easily come to notice while fitting.
	() Thanks

21st June 2006, 20:56	#15
Knight Rider BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 283 Thanked: 28 Times	Yes rehaan, I am going to do the balancing and the alignment this weekend, Sankar I never knew about the run-out lines, Thank you for sharing the information with me, Yes I did notice the red patch running across the circumfarance of the tyre.When I get my alignment done I will surely check it
	() Thanks