[ilangop]

My car - Premier 118NE 1995.
It had 81000kms already on the odo while it came to my hands. Which means that the tyres would have been replaced a couple of time, removed many times to fix punctures. The result of these man handling showed up on
1. Non-uniformity along the lip of the rim (The tyrewala hits a long lever to pull the tyre out)
2. Deformed bolt holes (Tyrewalas who work on truck tyres rend to over-tighten the wheel bolts and rim showed deformation in those areas too.
The deformation was to such an extent that each rim needed at least 20gram of Lead weight on either side, still remained little unbalanced. A new rim for 118NE is next to impossible.
Lastly, 118NE runs on bias ply tyre of size 5.6-13 which is not being manufactured by major tyre manufacturers or not stocked by tyre shops as this is not a fast moving tyre spec. The closest option is 155/80/R13.
Alloy wheel was more of a need than for style / performance / Weight reduction. Again, a 13" X 98 PCD alloy is quite a rare spec (Available in very few shops or brought by order). Luckily struck with a deal in OLX for 5 Nos 100PCD X 5.0J used alloy for 10000. With my vernier I was assured about the back spacing, Press fitted a ring to shrink the center hole dia, used wobble washer and long bolts to adapt 100PCD alloy rim on a 98PCD hub. My car finally rides on Apollo Amazer 3G 155/80R13 tubeless.
Weight-wise I think I didn't have any advantage. After all Magnesium alloys give better weight reduction than Aluminium alloys.
In all, my advice would be, stick to OE spec rims or alloys because they have been tested not just as a component but as a overall system. Excessive deviation from the OE specs would lead to problems like suspension bush wear out, wheel bearing wear out, strain on the stub axles, returnability of steering, etc. So think wisely before a tyre or alloy upgrade.

[coolguru4ever]

Thanks for sharing your experience. That's a whole load of work you've done in retaining that awesome car. The alloys surely look nice. NE 118 was a fantastic car and I remember seeing many around during childhood.

In all, my advice would be, stick to OE spec rims or alloys because they have been tested not just as a component but as a overall system. Excessive deviation from the OE specs would lead to problems like suspension bush wear out, wheel bearing wear out, strain on the stub axles, returnability of steering, etc. So think wisely before a tyre or alloy upgrade.

You are absolutely right here. This is one thing that has been bugging me ever since I've decided to go for a tyre upgrade. But, the amount of understeer my car offers is good enough to convince anyone in my favor once they drive my car. I can't even take a right turn on a roundabout at a speed of 30 km/ph. Have to drop down to crawling speeds to take a turn. I am sure that the tyre are at fault here.

One thing that surprises me is that the same variant was offered with meatier tyres (185/60 R14) abroad. The drop in diameter and increased side wall for Indian road conditions makes sense. But why make the tyre thinner. Feeling a little ripped off.

[Deepak K Gupta]

Many years ago when I fitted my Zen (1st model) with Aura Alloys retaining the OEM tyres I found that my steering had become very hard although the ride was fabulous albeit in a straight line. Although I had retained the original wheel diameter by using the same OEM tyres, I later realised the Offset and width of the alloys greatly affects steering behavior. I could not drive with the alloys for long especially as I did not have power steering and reverted back to the steel wheels-instant relief. So the lesson learnt is you will have to find an alloy that has the same offset (or within 10%) and of the same width (tough) as the original steel rims if you want to retain the original steering characteristic of the car. Sometimes even company fitted alloys can make the steering awkward because it is very difficult to find alloys in the required size.

[adutta2k]

Hi Guys,

I am pretty new to this thing but from some of the reviews on team-bhp and elsewhere as well.....I have found the reviewers mention that the ride quality with alloy wheels is a little bumpy due to thinner sidewalls as compared to regular steel wheels. Is this true since I was under the impression that alloy wheels offer better ride quality and almost all manufacturers offer alloy only on the top end version. So infact are people paying more money for a less comfortable and more expensive option? I do understand the better looks and maybe better braking ability with alloys on, but if the ride quality is compromised then in my opinion its not worth spending extra money.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by adutta2k

Hi Guys,

I am pretty new to this thing but from some of the reviews on team-bhp and elsewhere as well.....I have found the reviewers mention that the ride quality with alloy wheels is a little bumpy due to thinner sidewalls as compared to regular steel wheels. Is this true since I was under the impression that alloy wheels offer better ride quality and almost all manufacturers offer alloy only on the top end version. So infact are people paying more money for a less comfortable and more expensive option? I do understand the better looks and maybe better braking ability with alloys on, but if the ride quality is compromised then in my opinion its not worth spending extra money.

The alloys should offer a marginally better ride quality.
What happens is that when most of us upgrade to alloys, we also upgrade our tyres to slightly larger ones (as most cars are generally equipped with the skinniest tyres available in the name of costs).
When we upgrade to larger tyres, it generally results in the sidewall height being compromised (i.e. lower profile as compared to stock), resulting in a poorer ride.

However, on the bright side, a conservative upsize with good quality rubber will not only see handling improve, but also comfort and FE.

Also - in the long run, alloys are safer as they are less prone to bends and cracks.

[volkman10]

Reviving an old thread!

Steel Or Alloy Wheels - Hydraulic Press Decides Which One’s Stronger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liJSPe6vMgI

the alloy wheels have more rigidity and require more force to crush. Unfortunately, that also means they break into pieces when that happens. The steel wheels, on the other hand, absorb the punishment without splitting into parts

[sentra26]

Are steel wheels safer than alloy wheels (for large ladder on frame SUVs)? This was a topic of discussion between a friend and me. So why were we talking about this topic? For those who need to know, the train of thought was - War, Afghanistan, Toyota pickups in Afghanistan, (and somehow don't ask me how) alloy wheels.

I like the look of steel wheels (Yes I am a tasteless philistine). My friend (a slight conspiracy theorist) mentioned that people are being fooled into taking the alloy wheel based on looks when the steel wheels were sturdier and safer. Enter customary point about what we eat now as being unhealthy as well. Of course, I kind of disagreed but not too vehemently since I like steel wheels (as I mentioned).

Here were the points made.

- Unlike alloys steel wheels were not prone to cracks or bends (even when crashing into a pothole). One factor (not all but one) that leads to tyre bursts can be prevented.
- Steel wheels might rust and gaps might form. This would cause further issues with leaks. Counterpoint - Properly painted and maintained steel wheels can mitigate this corrosion
- Steel wheels are heavier and might cause extra strain on the suspension. But this extra weight and friction can be useful for certain driving conditions.
- Alloy wheels can give better handling - (but these bigger vehicles are not brought for their handling)
- Alloys are lighter and will contribute to fuel economy (again not an issue of safety).

We also felt that even though we had a combined driving experience of 50 years (and needless knowledge of geopolitics) we were not really knowledgeable about the tyres on our cars . Were our points even valid? I thought it apt to submit this to the collective wisdom of this forum and get feedback (caustic criticism) of these points.

[condor]

Originally Posted by sentra26

Are steel wheels safer than alloy wheels (for large ladder on frame SUVs)? .

Sentra, you can check and continue the discussion here:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-...an-alloys.html (Are Steel wheels/rims better than alloys?)

[VKumar]

Very interesting topic, add me also to the list of curious people seeking explanation from experts on various aspects

Originally Posted by sentra26

Are steel wheels safer than alloy wheels (for large ladder on frame SUVs)? This was a topic of discussion between a friend and me.

I have one experience to share of myself.

I have both, Polo Comfortline Petrol and Polo Highline Diesel with me. Comfortline has steel wheels, while the Highline has alloys. Both the cars are running on same sized tyres too:

• Comfortline - MRF Perfinza 195/60 R15
• Highline - MRF Zsport 195/60 R15

While in the Highline, I have had three cases of tyre bulge, the Comfortline had 2 cases of rim bend and lost wheel caps.

Argument 1: Diesel is nose heavy.
My Take: I agree, but both the times, it was both front and rear type pass through a large pothole at speed. The weight on the rear wheels is more or less same, Highline had only me in the car, while the Cofmortline had 2 more passengers too. In Highline, both my right side tyres got a bulge each, but the Comfortline had bent rims and lost wheelcaps, minor leak, but no bulges. In fact, the first set MRF ZVTV also had 2 bulged tyres on Highline, let me blame my carelessness over that, most were the cases due to under inflation in both the cars.

Here are the pictures of both:

What I concluded?
Both are equally risky. The bulge could have been a tyre burst, similarly the bent rim also may have cause a sudden deflation causing the loss of control. Both the situations can easily result in a catastrophe.

But yes, till date, the bent rims have costed me lesser. The rim that got bent twice, I replaced it with a new one. The alloy has costed me more tyres. And if you are running under inflated for any reason, the alloy will most probably pinch your tyre and cause a bulge at some time for sure, steel ones take slight hit on themselves too. But now, whenever I end up in a hard hit, I immediately stop and inspect my rims and tyres once - better be safe than sorry.

the steel wheels were sturdier and safer.

With a set of high profile tyres, anything will work. Low profilers need alloys or stronger set of rims because the point impact will be higher, especially if you are running under inflated in a car with a tight suspension setup. The load can be large enough to immediately deform your steel rim, hence the cars with lower profile do need the alloys, they can damage tyres, but sre still safer - at least they don't get deformed, and it matters in case of a high speed, rapid loss of infltion.

Unlike alloys steel wheels were not prone to cracks or bends (even when crashing into a pothole). One factor (not all but one) that leads to tyre bursts can be prevented.

I won't comment on aftermarket alloys, but the OEM ones break only under immense impact. I have seen aftermarket ones giving up quite a lot of times, OEM ones I have seldom seen getting failed on any reasonable impact. They also do fail, but it is the point where we talk in PPM (Parts Per Million).

- Steel wheels might rust and gaps might form. This would cause further issues with leaks. Counterpoint - Properly painted and maintained steel wheels can mitigate this corrosion

Better to replace them time to time, I follow that. They are cheap to replace too. Because, the air valve point is normally the first to fail due to rust and cause leakage. Water accumulates there time and again, in every wash, and slowly the rust deforms the hole.

- Steel wheels are heavier and might cause extra strain on the suspension. But this extra weight and friction can be useful for certain driving conditions.

A mass that is below your suspension, or say unsprung mass - can only strain your suspension when it is allowed to freely suspend - that doesn't happen in the cars when they are running on the road.

- Alloy wheels can give better handling - (but these bigger vehicles are not brought for their handling)

Maybe they can, but I am quite sure that I haven't reached the handling limits of even my steel rims till date. Instead of rims, I would prefer a grippier set of tyres, and a better weight distribution, that shall suffice.

- Alloys are lighter and will contribute to fuel economy (again not an issue of safety).

I don't know what labs have to say, but I am yet to observe this difference too in real life. I have had the cars in which I switched from steel to alloy, couldn't notice any difference in FE. Smaller and underpowered engines are more sensitive to such stuff. The more powerful the engine gets, the lesser significance is of such stuff on FE.

Were our points even valid? I thought it apt to submit this to the collective wisdom of this forum and get feedback (caustic criticism) of these points.

Same question for experts

[sentra26]

Originally Posted by VKumar

I have one experience to share of myself.

This is a wealth of information that's been shared. Thanks.

Originally Posted by VKumar

But now, whenever I end up in a hard hit, I immediately stop and inspect my rims and tyres once

This is something I will start to follow as well. I usually inspect the tyres before a long journey but needs to be more frequent. I also will invest in a TPMS for the cars irrespective of the wheel type.

Originally Posted by VKumar

With a set of high profile tyres, anything will work.

I believe there was also reports on the Innova Crysta's (top end model) 17 inch alloys having a tyre burst issue more than that 16 inch which (proportionally) had a larger sidewall. Heard that Toyota for a brief bit changed the tyres to 16 inch alloys till they had the issue fixed (I hope).

[Spinnerr]

Some more food for thought. During PM's recent visit to Kerala, the fortuner he rode had steel wheels, because it is safer than alloy wheels?

These are Delhi registered cars, not something sourced locally.



Source: New Indian Express

[sentra26]

Originally Posted by Spinnerr

During PM's recent visit to Kerala, the fortuner he rode had steel wheels, because it is safer than alloy wheels?

The mystery deepens. I assume also that most of the rides (at that level of security) would be reinforced by ballistic protection. The armor might render the car way heavier and hence the need for steel wheels (?). Not sure.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by VKumar

A mass that is below your suspension, or say unsprung mass - can only strain your suspension when it is allowed to freely suspend - that doesn't happen in the cars when they are running on the road.

Mass is mass and when it needs a force to move or to stop, freely suspended or not.

The higher the unsprung mass is the more energy needs to be absorbed by the tyres and the suspension. This is one of the reasons aluminium wheels are used on sports/peformance cars. Less mass, means less unsprung mass, allows for better road holding / performance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_mass


I think the title of this thread is misleading. It suggest that alloys are unsafe. I don’t think that to be the case at all. However, everything is only as good as it was designed for. Mounting alloys on a car that was never designed for it, can cause problems and vice versa. In particular as it changes the unsprung weight.

I think the difference is down to cost, weight and visuals. On a like for like basis an alloy rim will cost more and weigh less than a steel. They are produced in a different fashion. Alloys can be easily manufactured in all sorts of very intricate designs.

Both alloy and steel rims can bend and crack. Both (contrary to popular belief) can be repaired. But it takes more specialised skills and machinery to repair alloy rims. Which also tends to make repairing alloy rims more costly than steel ones.

Most alloy and steel can be run with tubeless tyres or with inner tubes, no problem.

Although I don’t have data, I believe many alloys tend to be fitted with relative lower tyres. That in itself presents additional challenges when going over potholes. So I think that is more a tyre problem than a rim problem perse. A rim is more likely to be damaged on a low tyre than on a normal tyre, irrespective of the material it is made from.


Jeroen

[whitewing]

Well, since the OP's question is on SUVs.
Where one can assume, the wheels are not low profile ones.
Given this, apart from weight, can't see any reason where an alloy scores over a steel rim in an SUV. And how significant would a weight of a kilo or so make for a vehicle weight more than a tonne?

[sentra26]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Although I don’t have data, I believe many alloys tend to be fitted with relative lower tyres.

Interesting. This I think is what happened in the Innova Crysta tyre burst issue. I did not want the title to be misleading. It was a question if genuinely steel wheels are safer in larger SUVs. And if say we take the exact same tyre (profile/size etc) then would it be correct to say that steel wheels are marginally safer. This is more a nitpicky/theoretical question than anything.