[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by zhopudey

I've booked a Nexon petrol amt, and am busy going thru the manual. It mentions that in manual mode it'll downshift automatically. Hope that's accurate.

Correct, and same across all AMTs of all vendors. At a lowest possible threshold the logic will downshift even in manual mode to ensure clutch safety and to ensure the engine doesnt stall. Its pretty well calibrated by all vendors and the downshift happens just when you think the engine might be close to stalling.

Note, its still better to downshift manually at the optimum rpm as per your "feeling" of the behaviour, because it will downshift at a much lower rpm in manual mode - As a last resort.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by nandadevieast

Yaris AT, Rapid/Polo/Vento, New Duster AT, Ecosport AT, V-cross AT, Amaze/City AT...these are the generally suggested examples of the CVT and TC ATs under 15L. Could be something from Hyundai and Maruti also which i am not aware of.

Which of these vehicles you will rate as 1,2,3 purely from hill driving perspective?

As far as CVT is concerned, there really isn't a pure "manual" override, so to speak, but there are versions of CVT having "stepped" progressive alterations, not gears really but just giving a feeling of the revolutions resetting while the CVT with its belt or chain does its usual work, some acceleration response is improved because the belt or chain slipping on purpose and resetting the revs a little. CVT though, in my view is the worst for mountains.

Torque converters indeed have a tiptronic mode, i.e manual override using either paddle shifters or gear stick, they aren't as quick to respond as a pure manual but if you push the gears beyond their comfort zone, they will give you a little bit of push and thrust to make it through the hills, it is quite a workout though and it just feels stupid on occasions, so I leave it at automatic mode mostly.

CVT and TC both are masters of wasting torque, you can have 200+ nm and it'll feel like 100, when put under pressure, the CVT much more so. Also on a personal note, please understand that this is my point of view only, while I'm not a rash driver, I'm comfortable with massive torque output, I've driven 650+ nm torque vehicles and I found them so breezy and effortless to drive.

Most people will be fine with the CVT or torque converter default settings, and can easily adjust to them, I think you should ask for a test drive on a hilly setting if you want the one true answer.

Under 15 lakhs you might as well go for a DCT Hyundai Venue or DCT Kia Sonet, since DCTs have the best torque and most effortless acceleration of all cars.. however please note that their reliability is a huge question mark since dual clutch is robotically manipulated and tends to overheat or just fall apart due to friction (worst case scenario).

Keeping that in mind, I'll recommend Vento/Rapid TC setups first, Duster and Ecosport next, and then finally the Yaris or City. Do take test drives of all vehicles under final consideration before buying. VW/Skoda does a better job of programming torque in an easy manner, combined with the turbo engines, that is my pick since both are essentially the same car.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

CVT and TC both are masters of wasting torque, you can have 200+ nm and it'll feel like 100, when put under pressure, the CVT much more so.

Is this right though? TC gearboxes are known to offer us the benefit of Torque Multiplication since the transmission fluid within keeps slushing around, ready to send torque to your wheels when you tap the accelerator; I find TC automatics to even creep like a diesel would, from a complete stop, sans any 'A' pedal input. My A Star AT for instance creeps up slightly inclined surfaces in that manner even when I don't provide it any accelerator input.

[fhdowntheline]

In my experience, an AT is always a better option than manual gearbox for 99 % of the regular car drivers. Its only when the upslope is slushy or excessively dry/sandy that there may be some trouble. I have found that my AT cars including small cars like Micra CVT have done better than my manual cars like Dzire VDI on steep slopes.

[jetsetgo08]

Slightly off topic..

I am on the lookout for a fuel efficient AMT or a budget automatic car, and after a few test drives, have realized that Hill Hold/Start Assist is a must have for my sort of driving needs.

Do any of the sub Rs.9L (new)cars have this feature apart from Swift, Dzire and Amaze?

Most AMT cars have resulted in significant roll back of the car and had to pull the hand brake and give part throttle even on medium inclines to pull when fully loaded with passengers.


Thanks in Advance.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

Most AMT cars have resulted in significant roll back of the car and had to pull the hand brake and give part throttle even on medium inclines to pull when fully loaded with passengers.

Use hand brake or footbrake effectively to prevent rollback - Auto hold can give up easily even on vehicles that are more expensive like the Honda City AT etc. I wont rely on it. And on Ghat roads (assuming you are down south), your margin of error is tiny, its a speedy descend afterwards.

[Shiftlock]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

Slightly off topic..

I am on the lookout for a fuel efficient AMT or a budget automatic car, and after a few test drives, have realized that Hill Hold/Start Assist is a must have for my sort of driving needs.

Do any of the sub Rs.9L (new)cars have this feature apart from Swift, Dzire and Amaze?

Hey, do check out the Nissan Magnite, all the variants with the Turbo engine have hill hold assist as standard. I belive the XL CVT variant would be in your budget.

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Use hand brake or footbrake effectively to prevent rollback - Auto hold can give up easily even on vehicles that are more expensive like the Honda City AT etc. I wont rely on it. And on Ghat roads (assuming you are down south), your margin of error is tiny, its a speedy descend afterwards.

While ghats are a rarity, the usual scenarios include driving through the traffic laden hillocks of banjara, jubilee hills within the city. The frequent usage of handbrake will definitely be uncomfortable especially at traffic signals.

Originally Posted by Shiftlock

Hey, do check out the Nissan Magnite, all the variants with the Turbo engine have hill hold assist as standard. I belive the XL CVT variant would be in your budget.

Thanks. It's a little stretch over an already extended budget ,but I sure will check it out. The Kiger with more showrooms, unfortunately doesn't seem to be equipped with the same feature set.

[Ramchi]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

Slightly off topic..

I am on the lookout for a fuel efficient AMT or a budget automatic car, and after a few test drives, have realized that Hill Hold/Start Assist is a must have for my sort of driving needs.

Do any of the sub Rs.9L (new)cars have this feature apart from Swift, Dzire and Amaze?

Most AMT cars have resulted in significant roll back of the car and had to pull the hand brake and give part throttle even on medium inclines to pull when fully loaded with passengers.


Thanks in Advance.

This I realised after taking Kicks during my test drive to my parking place at home! Hill Assist, Vehicle Stability Manangement, Traction control, good suspension, auto on/off, tinted glasses became my preferred options OVER 360° camera, Bigger screen infotainment, tyre pressure monitor, sun/moon roof. Which is why I canceled my bookings for Seltos HTX which lacks all these yet more expensive than Nissan Kicks top variant by ₹ 40,000 - ₹ 60,000 and wait for several month fearing another set of price increase, went ahead with Nissan Kicks XV Premium CVT.

For your budget HA,VSM,TC may be avain Toyota Glanza mid variant....

[bhalu]

I am 61, an ex army officer who has driven extensively in the hills, mainly Uttarakhand and Himachal. The vehicles i used were a Premier padmini in the early 90's to a Wagon R in the 2000's and a Ford Fusion 1.4 TDCI lately till now.
I now work in Haridwar in a charitable hospital and intend buying the VW Tiagun1.5 GT. I will be travelling in the hills frequently (every month for 7-8 days) with an yearly trip to Harsil/Kedarnath in the west and Munsiyari in the east.
The question is should i buy a manual transmission or a DSG automatic. Which is more suitable for hill driving amongst the two.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by bhalu

Which is more suitable for hill driving amongst the two.

Best suited : Manual.
Can DSG work : Yes.

1. Usability wise you will lose engine braking while going downhill in D or S mode as it'll upshift when the engine speed rises above their preset limits. IIRC Sport mode usually upshifts around the 5500-6000rpm mark but the D mode would shift way early.
You can shift to the manual mode to force downshifts or hold gears if allowed, I am not sure if the DSG on the Taigun allows you to hold gears in manual mode but easy to check in a TD.

2. Maintenance/Ownership costs are higher with the DSG as the past hasn't been very good for them in our driving conditions (hot weather, traffic, usage). Not definite but significant cases make it a valid cause of concern and expense in the longer term.
Check our dedicated thread for proper usage if you end up buying it to prevent avoidable maintenance issues.

IMHO, if you want the comfort of an automatic then the DSG is one of the best units around and quite capable of handling your use case but if it isn't a necessity then the manual always works in operation and costs.

PS : I haven't driven the DSG on those terrains but on well surfaced but hilly roads at lower heights. Had to shift into the manual mode for engine braking to avoid overheating the brakes. Can't recall whether it held the gear or not.

[bhalu]

Originally Posted by shancz

Best suited : Manual.
Can DSG work : Yes.

1. Usability wise you will lose engine braking while going downhill in D or S mode as it'll upshift when the engine speed rises above their preset limits. IIRC Sport mode usually upshifts around the 5500-6000rpm mark but the D mode would shift way early.
You can shift to the manual mode to force downshifts or hold gears if allowed, I am not sure if the DSG on the Taigun allows you to hold gears in manual mode but easy to check in a TD.

2. Maintenance/Ownership costs are higher with the DSG as the past hasn't been very good for them in our driving conditions (hot weather, traffic, usage). Not definite but significant cases make it a valid cause of concern and expense in the longer term.
Check our dedicated thread for proper usage if you end up buying it to prevent avoidable maintenance issues.

IMHO, if you want the comfort of an automatic then the DSG is one of the best units around and quite capable of handling your use case but if it isn't a necessity then the manual always works in operation and costs.

PS : I haven't driven the DSG on those terrains but on well surfaced but hilly roads at lower heights. Had to shift into the manual mode for engine braking to avoid overheating the brakes. Can't recall whether it held the gear or not.

Thanks a lot, you couldn't have more clear and to the point.

[anb]

Originally Posted by bhalu

I am 61, an ex army officer who has driven extensively in the hills, mainly Uttarakhand and Himachal. The vehicles i used were a Premier padmini in the early 90's to a Wagon R in the 2000's and a Ford Fusion 1.4 TDCI lately till now.
I now work in Haridwar in a charitable hospital and intend buying the VW Tiagun1.5 GT. I will be travelling in the hills frequently (every month for 7-8 days) with an yearly trip to Harsil/Kedarnath in the west and Munsiyari in the east.
The question is should i buy a manual transmission or a DSG automatic. Which is more suitable for hill driving amongst the two.

I live in western ghats.I am using 4 AT cars including a Polo GT TSI with the same gearbox as that of Taigun 1.5. TC’s and DSG cars are a bliss to drive in hill roads as they don’t roll back or stop in steep inclines like a manual. You should buy the DSG version without any second thoughts.

[RijuC]

Driving experience in IGNIS AGS/ AMT in Himalayan roads

This extended weekend of Good Friday (15th to 17th April, 2022) we went to Pangot, Uttarakhand for a family trip. We were 5 passengers (me 181 cm, 93 kg)- 4 adults and one 11 years old kid. The boot was fully loaded with our luggage and foods. This time it was IGNIS AGS/ AMT of my sister-in-law and this was her first hill drive.

The drive in plains from South -west Delhi upto Kaladungi was normal. Upto Kaladungi the drive was shared. I struggled a bit because this was my first time with AMT on highways. Overtaking in busy two way highway from Morabadbad to Kaladungi was tough due to typical AMT character in busy sections through towns and broken roads. Sister-in-law was on Driver's seat when we started ascent in hills. IGNIS AMT was on normal "D" mode and she managed it nicely except the slow gear changes. But the car with 5 occupants and fully loaded luggage space never struggled. Upto Nainital it was a double lane road and the road became single lane towards Killbury/ Pangot. After Pangot the road was not good and tarmac was entirely broken. However we could progress slowly in 1/2 gear showing on the MID and the car never struggled. We drove very carefully and it never scraped the underbody. Our booking was at "The Oak Trails".

In the return leg of our journey, she drove in "D" mode again while descent. And there was absolutely no problem anywhere. However, after 30 kms drive I touched the alloys and found it was unusually hot (perhaps due to increased use of brakes). We rested for about 30 minutes at Khurpatal and then started again. Later I switched over to driver's seat from Kaladungi. This time I decided to switch over to manual mode when needed and select the gears as per situation. And this time the overtaking was easy and as usual. Also, in D mode, if I suddenly press the A pedal, the gear goes down and RPM needle goes to 3000+. However it takes little time and I was not very confident to overtake this way. So I preferred Manual mode while doing such overtakes.

In uphill journey, the fuel consumption was 21 litres for 310 km drive (we had to refuel in Nainital).

Overall, for newbies or not so aggressive drivers, owners on budget- this IGNIS AGS/ AMT is good in my opinion. I couldn't get a chance to do tankful to tankful efficiency since I am not the regular user/ owner of this car. But I believe FE can definitely be more than 16 kmpl if driven sensibly (for a mix of highway+hill drive). Handling of IGNIS in narrow and congested hill roads is definitely good due to it's compact size.