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Old 4th March 2019, 00:51   #1
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Default Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

The discussions on the BS6 thread have been exhaustive and informative regarding the impending 2020 April BS 6 implementation. For all the clarifications it presents, it also lends a dilemma for those of us tipping on the dive board to take the plunge for a new car in 2019.

The conundrum is amplified further if you are shopping in the D2 territory of large vilified diesel SUVs that cost as much as a house.

The battle of the full size premium suv's has raged in my mind space for quite some time and finally the 3.2 Endeavour has emerged victorious. However, the war is not over though, as the fourth dimension of time, (rather timing) still remains dangling.

The slew of new launches and facelifts is not slowing down and carmaker's are flooding the market with their BS4 offerings, both petrol and diesel. But with lesser petrol alternatives the large SUV space is largely diesel driven and I for one believe that the demand will sustain even beyond the knell of VI.

Assuming that I have chosen to adopt more of an elder brotherly attitude towards money and hence dissecting this decision, what are my options?

Option 1
Buy the Endeavour Titanium+ now.

Good: At the current aggressive pricing vis-a-vis competition, the Titanium plus, packs a lot of kit into a well built SUV. Ford has reassured its serious about our market and the product has worked overtime since its launch in 2016 to prove itself as a owner's delight. The company has strived to keep the maintenance and upkeep costs to the segment minimum.

The facelift also makes the timing more desirable for a switch, rewarding those who waited without picking up a tempting 2018 model which would have been the same 2016 model +sync 3 -headlight washer, at a significantly increased price over the launch number. The facelift offers some added features for an aggressive price. This price, going by Fords history with this product will only tip north silently in the coming months.

Bad: Uncertain future of the BS 4 vehicles?. What happens at the end of life? Would Resale or RE-register even be possible?


Option 2: Wait and Tide over the BS6

Good: Waited till 2019, not in any immediate hurry, so clench teeth and wait it out for the 2020 BS6 embargo and the compliant biturbo. Though not driven personally, reports suggest that the 2.0 l bi turbo is no brush aside motor and at least on paper belts out more power and torque than that sweet brutal 3.2. With the BS 6 engine there is relatively less worry about resale and probably offers better closure in certainty of the post rule era.

Bad: notwithstanding the waiting year, there is also the sure shot price escalation that comes with it. The vilified diesels are going to be a tough sell anyway few years down the line , bs6 or not, so the resale advantage might anyway be broken even by the price rise.

Option 3: The Gamble

Wait till end 2019, and hunt around for good deals on the last of the bs4 VINs, in a hopeful attempt to offset future uncertainties against upfront lesser investment.

Whichever option is chosen, I'm certain that this is the last IC engine I'll be driving. The EV culture may take the next decade to stabilise and offer good alternatives . Until then I'm willing to push the Endeavour into the Diesel sunset. Which on second thoughts, makes a case for itself, to plonk on the bs4 now and to just ride the diesel torque waves till they last.

What do you guys think?
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Old 4th March 2019, 02:27   #2
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Default re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

I'd wait for bs6. Certain upgrade next year to the car. Most likely more features too. Worst case you buy the bs4 model on discount.
Furthermore I'm not aware of the effects of low sulfur diesel on bs4 engines.
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Old 4th March 2019, 05:37   #3
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Default re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

Extremely pertinent question but unfortunately I don't think anyone can answer on your behalf. If I was in this dilemma, ideally I would wait for 2020 April BS6 implementation. But knowing how impulsive I am, I would have bought the Endeavour 3.2 now and be happy because no one has seen the future
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Old 4th March 2019, 08:34   #4
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Default re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

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Originally Posted by H_Dogg72 View Post
I'd wait for bs6. Certain upgrade next year to the car. Most likely more features too. Worst case you buy the bs4 model on discount.
Furthermore I'm not aware of the effects of low sulfur diesel on bs4 engines.
Mostly a cleaner burn but marginally reduced fuel efficiency due to the lower sulfur levels. Lubricity and Cetane levels in Diesel will vary too.

I am sure there will be some additive or the other to make up for all this when you pour bs6 fuel into a bs4 diesel vehicle, the same way as additives existed for older bs2/3 vehicles once bs4 came on the market.

Where this will bite owners of older vehicles is the increased fuel cost ++ additional cost of any additive required.
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Old 4th March 2019, 09:43   #5
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Default re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

Considering you are from Delhi, where diesel vehicles haven't found favor with the NGT/SC/Govt. in recent times, I'd suggest you hold on until BSVI is rolled out. Or buy a car with a BSVI engine as and when it is available.

There will be a price hike, sure, but that will be offset to some extent in the resale as a BSVI-compliant vehicle would ideally have better demand.
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Old 4th March 2019, 09:55   #6
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Default re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31 View Post
Whichever option is chosen, I'm certain that this is the last IC engine I'll be driving. The EV culture may take the next decade to stabilise and offer good alternatives . Until then I'm willing to push the Endeavour into the Diesel sunset. Which on second thoughts, makes a case for itself, to plonk on the bs4 now and to just ride the diesel torque waves till they last.

What do you guys think?
If you ask me- and I have given this issue a fair bit of thought, on the same grounds that you have mentioned - now is the best time to pick up a diesel, be it an SUV or a sedan/ hatchback. When I say now, I mean anytime before the BS6 norms are made applicable. For one, I think there is to much of a hullaabaloo being made over the BS6 norms. Yes, there is no doubt that resale value will take a bit of a hit, but then, given the impending electrification of the passenger car market over the next decade, that is going to be the case whether your car is a diesel or petrol. I don't believe in sacrificing today's driving pleasure for the resale value that I will get 5 or seven years down the line. Others may disagree, but the horizon for internal combustion engines is getting shorter by the day. Therefore, no better time than now to enjoy IC engines.

In short, buy the car today if you want/ need it today, and enjoy the torque wave without dampening your pleasure with thoughts of resale value and the like.

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 4th March 2019 at 09:57.
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Old 4th March 2019, 10:06   #7
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Default re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31 View Post
Option 3: The Gamble

Wait till end 2019, and hunt around for good deals on the last of the bs4 VINs, in a hopeful attempt to offset future uncertainties against upfront lesser investment.
Vignesh, sorry for hijacking your thread. Let me know if you have any concern with my post.

I am looking to purchase a diesel (a much cheaper one) and have thought of Option 3 above. I plan to retain it for 5-7 years and am assuming there's wouldn't be a stark difference in resale. My point being, I see 10-15 year old cars still being sold in used car market and they have decent resale values. For a used car, people don't look for BS III vs. BS IV vs. BSVI.

Even in 2011, when BS IV was in place, wasn't a 2008-09 vehicle, in good condition, getting sold in a good price? Right now, I see listings of 10 year old Fortuners at 7-9 lakhs. I know someone who bought a similar low run run model for 11 lakhs recently.

Am I going wrong? What am I missing out?

Last edited by ashis89 : 4th March 2019 at 10:08.
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Old 4th March 2019, 11:37   #8
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Default re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

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Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Vignesh, sorry for hijacking your thread. Let me know if you have any concern with my post.
Don't worry about it ashis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
I am looking to purchase a diesel (a much cheaper one) and have thought of Option 3 above. I plan to retain it for 5-7 years and am assuming there's wouldn't be a stark difference in resale.
I would agree with you. Personally, I wouldn't worry much if the intended purchase is <15lacs. The buyer base is wider and resale opportunities are proportionately better. The residual value and depreciation, would also be relatively bearable and the IV vs VI offsets could be met at a cost and absorbed over a longer ownership tenure. The extra time of car ownership available with you would also add to the pros of buying the BS4 instead of waiting for BS6 to launch and stabilise and then purchase.

With >25lac cars, the higher you go, the harder you fall' rule applies here very well. With great depreciations and a general frown on large diesels, the leap of faith a stretched, salaried, individual is asked to take becomes too precarious.

There is an Option4: Turn the conundrum in your favour. Buy a preowned BS4 at the cusp of the impending VI and benefit from the bulk of market upgrading to BS6. The choice basket must be better to choose from since many would be hastily upgrading. Im personally not keen on this for the amount of hunt time it demands and the fact that if this is the last IC engine I'm planning to own, then might as well get the best and newest available to stretch for longer.
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Old 10th March 2019, 07:55   #9
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Default Re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31 View Post
What do you guys think?
I think that you too (like me) intend to keep the vehicle for as long as humanly possible.

Unless there is likelihood that once BS6 comes in, diesel cars can be registered in Delhi for 15 years as before, there is no point in waiting.

You are buying a depreciating asset - yeah, for many, the Indian mentality takes over and we start thinking of resale over quality of experience (the only explanation I have for the Fortuner's popularity).

Personally, I would not wait at all - if there was a chance of extending the car's registered life in Delhi by 50% I'd suggest you wait. but since I don't think there is, I would emphatically suggest that you pull the trigger as soon as possible.

I bought my Endeavour this September knowing full well that a facelift was coming - while I at least didn't pay a higher than the facelift currently is, the things I missed out on are a more adjustable passenger's seat and TPMS readout (wrt my needs). I hope they can be retrofitted. I am certainly very happy with my extra 12 volt socket add my conventional key though.

That said, the bottom line of me bringing this up, is that I could have waited 6 months for alleged improvements in features, pricing, engines yada yada yada - but I doubt anything can be regarded as being worth the trade off for the six months I got with this capable, rugged and surprisingly comfortable truck - something I had consciously factored in when buying a vehicle I knew was to be facelifted soon enough.

6 months, 20,000 km, 3 expeditions, and numerous excursions. Try putting a price and regulations on that...

As we've had occasion to discuss this before, like me, you seem to have realised the life is too short - by becoming, shall we say, a less conventional buyer in this bracket - I think you should embrace that spirit to the fullest. I remember going into the overthinking phase myself as I went about getting my finances together for an outright purchase - once you know, once you identify your needs, the wait can play tricks with your head. I think you should go the other way now - impulsive, not overthinking.

Cheers!

PS: This is coming from someone who not only waited 15 months and lost out on GST benefits and headlamp washers on this vehicle, but someone who always deplores the instant gratification our society seems to demand - something you will live with for years, something you will rely want to transport you and your family in safety and comfort for those, bemoaned for not being available immediately in their choice of colour like a toothbrush. These sort of purchases should not be compromised upon IMO.

PPS: I am largely excluding my feelings about the 2.0 vs 3.2 since this is a diesel cars/BS6 related thread, not an Endeavour thread. FWIW, buy the 3.2 while you still can, and thank me later once you are forced to "drive" a blender shaped like an automobile. #DownWithDownsizing #There'sNoReplscementForDisplacement #IHateHashtags

Last edited by Mu009 : 10th March 2019 at 08:12. Reason: Added some stuff.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:42   #10
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Default Re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

I also bought a Diesal Creta recently through company lease in NCR.
Despite the NGT regulations of 10 year rule, the Creta Diesal had one of the highest residual value of 64% after a period of 44 months.

This meant I had to pay much less in EMI as RV is high. The residual value for Creta petrol was 48%, and despite this being cheaper the EMI was same as Diesal variant.

I did not wait for BS6 as I don't see much benefit if I am going to surrender the car to leasing company after 44 months.
I would worry if I planned to keep the car for longer period and in that case would have thought of going for a petrol version.

Last edited by born_free : 10th March 2019 at 08:44.
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Old 11th March 2019, 16:56   #11
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Default Re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

Vignesh - What an appropriate time to bring up this topic. I am in the same boat, and since yesterday (after scouring TeamBHP and other sources) #XUV500Unsafe, my heart is on the Endeavour. At 40 Lakhs OTR it is as much as a house in some cities.

I am willing to clench my teeth for a few more months and pick up a 2019 VIN BS4 one at the end of the year. In between if the temptation becomes too strong, I will pick up a Nexon XZA and then pick up a proper 4WD (140 Bhp Gurkha or a 1.6L Baleno swapped Gypsy)
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Old 5th April 2019, 13:39   #12
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With MG launching the new Hector and other manufacturers also lining up products including a bulk of diesel variants, the makers don't seem to be slowing down for BS6 or diesel sentiments. The more the merrier for the customers with a wide range to choose from.
Also the mild hybrids and petrol option seem to be coming in alongside diesels.

Last edited by Zappo : 5th April 2019 at 18:01. Reason: Typo corrected.
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Old 5th April 2019, 15:12   #13
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Default Re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31 View Post
What do you guys think?
Don't know what I think, but I know this thread is as useful to me as it is to you. I suspect there are many others who will benefit from the ideas that turn up here.

I like some of the others above do not think of or calculate resale while buying a car. A car is a consumable, not an investment. Trust me, I would have bought it today if I had the cash - but I will not have the cash till my house in Pune sells. So, my wait continues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
I am sure there will be some additive or the other to make up for all this when you pour bs6 fuel into a bs4 diesel vehicle, the same way as additives existed for older bs2/3 vehicles once bs4 came on the market.

Where this will bite owners of older vehicles is the increased fuel cost ++ additional cost of any additive required.
Delhi is already on BS VI btw. Don't think we've heard anybody complain about their Diesel engines behaving abnormally.
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Old 27th April 2019, 17:20   #14
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Default Re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

I was sailing in the same boat too, a month back. With my Linea @ 1,90,000 Kms and Jeep offering some tempting discounts on Compass, I was not very sure on whether I should wait for BS6 or go ahead with BS4 Compass/Harrier now.

But after discussing with few people, I went ahead with the Compass purchase. Here are few reasons on why I went ahead with BS4
  • BS6 diesel engine will require BS6 fuel, but not the case with BS4 diesel engine, this can run on BS6 fuel too. I am not sure on how widely BS6 fuel will be available during the initial period or even later because the market is flooded with BS4 vehicles.
  • Even if BS6 engine accepts BS4 fuel, it might lead to clogged fuel filters. There is no clarity on how a BS6 engine will perform on BS4 fuel.
  • Price increase, BS6 is expected to be costlier by 2L+
  • Adding to the above, in another 1-2 years, I will easily lose 2-2.5 lakhs on the Linea resale. (So, this makes it 4L+ difference).
  • I am not worried about resale value as I tend to keep the cars for long period.
  • This may not be related, but I don't want the car to beep continually post 80Kmph :-)
So, we went ahead and brought home a Compass early this month.
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Old 27th April 2019, 21:59   #15
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Default Re: Diesel Car: Buy 2019 BS4 or wait for 2020 BS6?

Are Indian diesel cars going to need periodic DEF(Diesel Exhaust Fluid) refills to satisfy BS 6 norms?
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