[brohanv]

I am posting this on behalf of a friend, I felt that could possibly be a predicament that many people experience when purchasing something indulgent towards the end of their years of service, so went ahead with posting this.

Understanding the buyer

• Middle-Class, Middle-aged Man who is not an enthusiast. Does enjoy powerful cars, but isn't happy dealing with their temperamental maintenance tendencies
• Has worked his entire life as a provider and finally wants to reward himself with something at the end of his career
• Has outrightly stated that his next automobile will be something European with the brand value of an Audi, Beamer and Mercedes. But the budget will permit only the very entry-level offerings.
• Does appreciate the depth of design and engineering over gimmicks, one of the only cars that have ever grabbed his attention is the Skoda Superb.
• Wanted to own an SUV his entire life, but no offerings this side of 25 lakhs were refined and liveable enough for his liking. (wasn't a fan of the XUV's looks)
• THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE TO A POWERFUL MOTOR.
• The car has to be fairly comfortable, the man has a very rough it out kind of mentality, so an opulent interior while nice to have is something compromise could be made on.
• Annual running wouldn't be too high but it will be his primary car in cities, expressways and dual-carriageways.
• Must be an Automatic
• Flexible on fuel.
• Budget would be between 30-45 lakhs.
• He has experience driving the old Sumos, Qualis, Bolero Campers in the course of his service, which he enjoyed thoroughly, however, he says that he doesn't want something too large for the City. His usage will primarily be in Delhi-NCR with mostly wide roads and there will be a second smaller car in the household. While he may not state it outrightly, size is something that will tug on his heartstrings. The same old middle-class restraint as opposed to excess at play here.
• Not open to pre-owned options.

Cars that somewhat fit the bill

Jeep Compass

[+]Has liked the looks of the car since launch.
[+]Powerful Motor and all-rounder capability.
[-]But has no vfm quality and is a size too small.
[-] the consensus on the A/T is that it's not necessarily the best
[-] doesn't fit the bill as an outright SUV or something as opulent as the germans, feels like a compromise on both ends.


Toyota Fortuner

[+] Has been my recommendation for its combination of power, adequately capable AT, mile-munching capabilities and big-car aspiration value with small car maintenance.
[-] Has no vfm quality, is overpriced and has choppy ride quality. Also feels like a compromise on the opulence front.
[-] 40 big ones for a Toyota?

Skoda Kodiaq & VW Tiguan

[+] German build quality and finesse with an agreeable price tag.
[-] The Tiguan lacks a sense of occasion with its stiff ride quality despite no fun to drive credentials and Skoda ASS is not really the last word in peace of mind.

BMW 330i Standard Wheel-Base

[+] Despite overshooting the budget, it almost feels vfm due to its thoroughbred nature, brand pull, RWD, power and generally better ASS than competitors.
[-] Price.

The Citroen looks a touch too quirky, that kind of dough will positively not be put down against a Hyundai, so the Tucson is also out. Skoda Superb is a little long in the tooth and unless there are great discounts available, putting down that kind of cash for an fwd A4 also doesn't seem like a fair transaction.

This would clearly be a much shorter conversation if the Endeavour 3.2 was still on sale in our market. Looking forward to hearing your recommendations.

[Samba]

To add to your confusion, how about a Toyota Camry Hybrid! A powerful 215 Bhp D2 segment sedan which will return you a mileage of 16-18 km/L with Toyota reliability and fuss free after sales service!
Cons- You do not want to buy a pricey Toyota.

The Skoda Octavia wont disappoint you either, even if it's a FWD car!
Cons- You are not confident about Skoda after sales service.

From the list you provided, my pick will be the 330i, if it's out of your budget my second choice will be the Kodiaq followed by the Compass.
As going for off-road/rough road drives are not mentioned, the Fortuner can be ruled out.

[karanddd]

The only semi-reliable European brand in India is BMW. On average any BMW will feel far more temperamental than a Toyota or Hyundai. This person wants a non-temperamental, fuss free, easy to maintain car, but does not want to go with brands that are proven to make non-temperamental, fuss free, easy to maintain cars? It's a little oxymoronic, as anything that has "brand value" in India is also something that's relatively harder and more expensive to maintain.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by brohanv

Has outrightly stated that his next automobile will be something European with the brand value of an Audi, Beamer and Mercedes. But the budget will permit only the very entry-level offerings.

Does appreciate the depth of design and engineering over gimmicks, one of the only cars that have ever grabbed his attention is the Skoda Superb.

Wanted to own an SUV his entire life, but no offerings this side of 25 lakhs were refined and liveable enough for his liking. (wasn't a fan of the XUV's looks)

THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE TO A POWERFUL MOTOR.

Top choices for your friend:

BMW 330i
Skoda Kodiaq (sold out for 2022)
Skoda Superb
Toyota Camry

All of these will keep him really happy.

Originally Posted by karanddd

The only semi-reliable European brand in India is BMW. On average any BMW will feel far more temperamental than a Toyota or Hyundai.

And expensive! As the car ages, one spends 1 - 1.5 lakhs every year on the car. That's not even including the pricey insurance or higher running costs due to the lower FE + expensive tyres with a shorter life.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by brohanv

I am posting this on behalf of a friend...

Middle-Class, Middle-aged Man who is not an enthusiast. Does enjoy powerful cars...Has outrightly stated that his next automobile will be something European with the brand value of an Audi, Beamer and Mercedes. But the budget will permit only the very entry-level offerings.
Must be an Automatic....Flexible on fuel.....Budget would be between 30-45 lakhs......and there will be a second smaller car in the household. While he may not state it outrightly, size is something that will tug on his heartstrings.
.....Not open to pre-owned options.

Cars that somewhat fit the bill

Jeep Compass
Toyota Fortuner
Skoda Kodiaq & VW Tiguan
BMW 330i Standard Wheel-Base

I genuinely wish him all the best for the car he wishes to buy. He deserves the best without a doubt as we all do. But middle class? - 45 lakhs budget, BMW or Mercedes or Jeep Compass, 2 cars in the garage. These don't sound like middle class to me. Maybe a perception gap here. I don't blame him actually because we tend to think of ourselves as we were when we were kids. I also think of myself as upper middle class Folks on Team BHP might think I'm nuts. Such is the power of self image.

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by brohanv

[*]Middle-Class, Middle-aged Man who is not an enthusiast. Does enjoy powerful cars, but isn't happy dealing with their temperamental maintenance tendencies
[*]Does appreciate the depth of design and engineering over gimmicks, one of the only cars that have ever grabbed his attention is the Skoda Superb.
[*]Wanted to own an SUV his entire life, but no offerings this side of 25 lakhs were refined and liveable enough for his liking. (wasn't a fan of the XUV's looks)
[*]THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE TO A POWERFUL MOTOR.
[*]The car has to be fairly comfortable, the man has a very rough it out kind of mentality, so an opulent interior while nice to have is something compromise could be made on.
[*]Annual running wouldn't be too high but it will be his primary car in cities, expressways and dual-carriageways.
[*]Must be an Automatic
[*]Flexible on fuel.
[*] Budget would be between 30-45 lakhs.

If a BMW is in the consideration list of the enthusiastic cars, that would be the natural winner. But when the above quoted points come into the picture, Tiguan goes on the top of the listed cars.

Since SUV has been a dream of your friend through out his life, Tiguan is there to fulfill his desire without compromising on the comfort. Its fairly capable to do some mild offroading with it's AWD system, got sufficiently powerful 2.0 TSI motor and will be slightly lighter on the pocket to maintain compared to the BMW.

Jeep Compass is a gorgeous compact SUV, but it always felt overpriced to me for what it offers, the build quality (especially the interiors) leaves a lot to be desired. And Jeep's petrol engine is also not good enough for a vehicle of this size.

Since your friend liked the Skoda Superb but dropped it out of the consideration list just becasue of the size, I wonder why he did not consider the Octavia. Thats mostly a Superb packaged in a smaller size! Although Octavia will be at third place amongst the listed cars because it comes only with the FWD system.

[lamborghini]

I'd relook at the A4 too along with the other contenders & also have a look at the Skoda Octavia & BMW X1 (discounts should pick up with the all new X1 around the corner).

My shortlist would be:

1) A4 - well priced, petrol so Delhi NCR 15 year rule wouldn't be an issue, good ride & handling balance mated to a decent 2.0TSi engine, and comfortable seating for the family (where the 3 could be a touch too low).
Don't let the FWD tag fool you : you wouldn't miss the RWD unless you're really pushing the car / enjoy launches and getting the tail out.
The Premium Variant post discounts could be a great option and within budget too!
With the 7 year extended warranty + host of competent independent mechanics in Delhi-NCR, I wouldn't be too worried about maintenance though one does have to keep an eye out for what actually needs to be done as compared to an over-inflated estimate - something even Maruti & Toyota are notorious for.

2) Toyota Camry Hybrid - Low maintenance, fully loaded, and the safe choice. It won't have the German pedigree on the highway, but neither will it have the German compromises in the city : RFT ruining the ride, ultra low profile rubber that is prone to damage if not driven well, stiffer ride quality, etc.
If he uses a chauffeur in the city, this could be a very good option!

3) Skoda Superb - Like you said, he is someone who prefers practicality over an opulent interior + this car has grabbed his attention. It maybe dated, and discounts are low - but it could be a great option to consider still!

4) Skoda Kodiaq L&K - Superb on stilts? If you're able to get the L&K trim despite the sold out tag (cancelled booking, etc.), it's the one to go for.
If not available, I would try the Tiguan out - do alter the tyre pressure to 33PSI and see : I'm quite ok with the ride on bombay roads in the front seats.

5) Skoda Octavia - city friendly size, skoda practicality, and a new generation which will be around for a while at a price that undercuts your budget.

6) BMW 330i - expensive, but a good overall car. The only fly in the ointment for me was the lower seating but if it is a non-issue, you can't go wrong with it given BMW's excellent maintenance plans, explosive performance, etc.

7) BMW X1 - Honestly would pick up the 330i over the X1, but may get a deal on the car as it will be soon discontinued with the new X1 coming in soon + SUV.

Just a point to note : with any German, extended warranty is a must & once extended warranty is over you need to shift to a good independent mechanic who can help out when needed irrespective of brands.
It's also key to review the estimate with an eagle eye as all companies add non-value add items to inflate the bill. Heck Toyota once sent me an estimate for some manual gearshift lubrication for an Automatic Corolla!

[SideView]

OT:

Seeing a lot of threads lately with title “middle class” where person is talking about Bmws, Audis and what not make me feel poor.

[anjan_c2007]

Of all the options you @brohanv have stated for the gentleman, the BMW 330i could be the most appropriate. The BMW X Series in the lower range look malnourished to me. Skodas I would rule out due to the still cloudy spares and service scenario and the hassles these are appended with. The company is yet to present itself and its dealers in a transparent avatar, despite new launches and new buoyancy on the sales front. Till this transparency is lucidly visible, I would not suggest venturing there as a buyer. A person who is retired would perhaps not like to fall into the trap and if problems arise, assert his or her rights to deaf ears.

Also I would rule out the Jeep range as the company sustains itself with three figure monthly sales. Sometimes sales just touch four figures and that's not worth a mention. We are not sure if it would do a GM or Ford or Harley act and disappear. The Yankees disappear but leave their ghosts in India to haunt owners.

Other options are the XUV 700 or the Thar, if Mahindras are preferred. The Maruti and Hyundai /Kia model ranges are all nearly quite below his budgeted amount though the gentleman is portrayed with a Rs 45 L budget as slotted in the "middle class".

But for city use and city parking nothing beats these hatches from Maruti and Hyundai nowadays, whose buyers could be from the "lower middle class" if we go by the new normal where a Rs 45 L car can be afforded by someone who belongs to the "middle class."

[comfortablynumb]

If a European vehicle isn't a must, how about the Hyundai Tucson? I guess both Petrol and Diesel will fit in his budget.

[IshaanIan]

Atleast when it comes to BMW and Mercedes, their sub executive segment cars, that is the 2 series, 3 series, X1, CLA, GLA, C-Class all feel like they cater to younger audiences. The ride in all these cars is very stiff and the chassis does not give up any chance to show-off its torsional rigidity. They probably mean to come off as being "sporty" but I feel that there are more ways than just stiffening everything up, to go quicker around a bend. These cars will not offer a pliant ride at all. Some might be wowed by the badge, features and quality of interiors and say that they are comfortable but trust me atleast when it comes to BMW and Mercedes you do not get to feel any ride comfort unless you go up to the E-Class or 5 series onward.

Have your friend try out all the European offerings in his budget and then try something like the CR-V. People tend to extrapolate their experience with Marutis and Honda Citys and then past a certain point they reserve their money only for European brands believing the grass is likely greener on the other side, but a CBU Japanese car is something else all together and atleast in terms of comfort, reliability and sheer mechanical robustness, a Japanese import makes a sound case for itself in the sub 50 lac bracket.

[NarediAni7518]

I would recommend the Volvo S60 to him, it’s a fresh product, looks good, has amazing interiors, is sedate with decent power, and has the value for money and peace of mind quotient too ! He will surely appreciate the car. Else, he can go ahead with a 330i, and if he wants something more opulent, get a C200, it’s still a looker in my opinion

[sunikkat]

He deserves a well earned retirement and since mostly this will be kept for a longer time he needs something that arrive in style. Personally I feel only 5 cars fit the bill perfectly

Audi A4 (top choice since brand value, comfortable and he is not after outright performance)
BMW 330i (brand and fun)
Skoda Superb and Toyota Camry (enough said)
Skoda Kodiaq (would have been a top pick too, but more waiting)

[Kosfactor]

It's not too late to be a car enthusiast, now that you do feel it's time to explore that side of life.

When you are ready to splurge around 60L that would be the time to look for the big three brands, their entry level models aren't worth paying the premium. There are some brands in between that tries to bridge the gap, they are simply in there for the ones who wants to save a few bucks and get nothing much in return.

Since you do have another car, do check out a Thar, you may need to hit the gym just to look cool getting out of it , that can't be a bad thing anyways!

[oakajale]

I would also recommend your friend to re-look at Audi A4 for this use case. It offers a good balance between driving dynamics of 3 series and comfort of C-Class. We have the A4 Technology, bought in Oct 2021 during peak of discounts and got a very good deal on it. It offers a supremely plush ride and we are able to extract 10-11 kmpl in City and 14-16 kmpl on Highway (probably can do a bit more with a lighter foot). It is also no slouch and has a claimed 0-100 of around 7 seconds with an amazingly quick-shifting DSG gearbox. The 40 TFSI is a gem of an engine. You can argue that it is FWD but I would still believe it is worth it for the price difference between the BMW and Merc rivals (which cost close to 10 lakhs more OTR). One can certainly get a Premium/Premium Plus around the top end of your budget. A test-drive would surely give you a better picture.