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Old 28th May 2012, 10:54   #1
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Default Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Mod Note : A BHPian has converted his Thar's IFS to a solid axle. Please continue the discussion on the other thread (Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle)

Dear Jeep Gurus,

A friend of mine who uses the Thar Crde for offroading, which is majorly hardcore, has repeatedly broken the front axles, hub locks, replaced a gearbox and now has bent axels at the front. The axles have broken again and now he is considering a swap of the front suspendion and axle assembly with the MM 550 open knuckle system.

Please advise can or should it be done. thanks?


Last edited by GTO : 19th October 2012 at 12:35. Reason: Adding link to conversion thread
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Old 28th May 2012, 11:54   #2
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Default re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Hi Jeepbug,

There are two ways to go about it.

1) Pick up an NGCS MM550XD chassis with Steering Box, Front & Rear Axles.
And fit the Thar CRDe Body, Engine+Gearbox+Cross-Members, Wiring Harness and Cooling System.

2) Convert the front Axle, for that you will require the following.
a) Leaf Spring Set.
b) Leaf Spring Hangers
c) Shock Absorber Mounts
d) Front Axle Assy
c) Steering Box.

In the second option too much cutting & welding has to be done on the Thar CRDe chassis, to remove the IFS and Rack and Pinion.

If you have to convert to solid Axle I would suggest changing the chassis, as in the first option.

A friend of mine has a Thar CRDe with Solid Axle on a NGCS Chassis in Tirunelveli in TN.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by GTO : 28th May 2012 at 14:15. Reason: Removing quoted post
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Old 28th May 2012, 12:07   #3
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Default re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

1) Pick up an NGCS MM550XD chassis with Steering Box, Front & Rear Axles.====
Exactly the same thing came to my mind but
1) will the chassis match the power ( read bhp ,torque --whatever ) of the said engine
2) wrt #1 will there be some strengthening of chassis needed ??

Quote:
2) Convert the front Axle, for that you will require the following.==

In the second option too much cutting & welding has to be done on the Thar CRDe chassis, to remove the IFS and Rack and Pinion.
All can be done , but is there a space for the axle to move up & down wrt
a) below the sump
b) just front of the sump ( like our dear Peugeots )


Quote:
A friend of mine has a Thar CRDe with Solid Axle on a NGCS Chassis in Tirunelveli in TN.
very much interesting Saar --- can we have pictures please

All n All this is going to BE an Interesting Subject

Sudarshan
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Old 28th May 2012, 13:10   #4
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Default re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
A friend of mine has a Thar CRDe with Solid Axle on a NGCS Chassis in Tirunelveli
Arka,

Do you mean its a NGCS Chassis from a 550 with the mEagle engine and NGT-530 fitted on it or was it a new Thar where the solid axle conversion was done?

Cheers,
Adi
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Old 28th May 2012, 13:48   #5
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Default re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Jeepbug,

There are two ways to go about it.

1) Pick up an NGCS MM550XD chassis with Steering Box, Front & Rear Axles.
And fit the Thar CRDe Body, Engine+Gearbox+Cross-Members, Wiring Harness and Cooling System.

2) Convert the front Axle, for that you will require the following.
a) Leaf Spring Set.
b) Leaf Spring Hangers
c) Shock Absorber Mounts
d) Front Axle Assy
c) Steering Box.

In the second option too much cutting & welding has to be done on the Thar CRDe chassis, to remove the IFS and Rack and Pinion.

If you have to convert to solid Axle I would suggest changing the chassis, as in the first option.

A friend of mine has a Thar CRDe with Solid Axle on a NGCS Chassis in Tirunelveli in TN.

Regards,

Arka
Few questions

Incase of option 1 should the engine mounts and gear box mounts be changed?
Box section 550 or c section?
Is the clearance between the front diff and engine not an issue?
Todays prices it should cost around

57"Open knuckle , no ones selling below 30k
Steering box - power steering ?rs
Leaf springs and shocks - around 10k
Chassis 30k
Labour - around 10k

Option 2 looks easier but both are expensive.
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Old 30th May 2012, 10:07   #6
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
1) will the chassis match the power ( read bhp ,torque --whatever ) of the said engine
2) wrt #1 will there be some strengthening of chassis needed ??

All can be done , but is there a space for the axle to move up & down wrt
a) below the sump
b) just front of the sump ( like our dear Peugeots )

very much interesting Saar --- can we have pictures please
Hi Sudarshan JEE,

1) Since the Thar MDI/MM550XD NGCS is "Heavily inspired" by the Jeep YJ Wrangler, my guess is the chassis is good for 120-140Bhp engines.

2) Why and where would the chassis need strengthening?

3)Wrt to Prop-shaft interference on the up-travel the NGCS Chassis (4WD) has a unique Bump-stop especially for the Front RHS prop-shaft.

If the Prop-Shaft fouls with the sump, then a wooden mallet and wooden drift can be used to suitably contour the sump.

Regards,

Arka

No Pics this is a "Secret" build.
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Old 30th May 2012, 10:56   #7
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Default Prop-Shaft Bump Stop

Hi Sudarshan JEE,

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...ction-ngcs.jpg

The Arm below the Steering Rod, Below/In Front of the RHS Engine Mount is the Bump Stop.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 30th May 2012, 12:37   #8
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Sudarshan JEE,

1) === my guess is the chassis is good for 120-140Bhp engines.

2) Why and where would the chassis need strengthening?
Agree to 1) So I surrender on 2)

Quote:
3)Wrt to Prop-shaft interference on the up-travel the NGCS Chassis (4WD) has a unique Bump-stop especially for the Front RHS prop-shaft.
Got me wrong Saarr , prop shafts can be arranged if engine mounts a little towards left .

BUT

I was talking abt the 'Axle Tubes ' & the Diff ' mass' .

Lets look at it a different way ,
If I am going to fit any engine Under 550/540 ( or any ) bonnet , then the upper limit is mostly set. ( I cant lift the bonnet to accommodate a taller engine > normally ) SO lets start calculating from above wrt to height of this engine -- how much down its going to come ?? & then we need to adjust the Axle tube below( or in front ) that , SO effectively how much lifted the vehicle will be ?


Quote:
No Pics this is a "Secret" build.




BTW : I would prefer to fit an Axle ON the thar -- would need to mount leaf brackets carefully , Cutting the existing things is not much of a job

Sudarshan
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Old 30th May 2012, 13:36   #9
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Sudarshanjee:

Thar CRDe is based on a modifed Bolero NGCS Chasis which is almost same as the NGCS from Thar DI/ NGCS 550 so there is no reason why it should be any weaker than the Thar CRDE chasis.

The Power Steering pump will fowl with the front differential so it will need to be relocated or removed.
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Old 30th May 2012, 13:53   #10
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Is there a shop you would actually trust to do a modification of this complexity? If so, please tell us who it is.

Five hours north of Chandigarh and I can't find anybody who I trust to fill the windshield washer reservoir.

What's your friend doing to this CRDe? Dropping it from airplanes?
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Old 30th May 2012, 16:32   #11
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

In the first place is the problem of Thar breaking its axles so common? Or is it only you that has some particular issues?
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Old 30th May 2012, 18:52   #12
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Sudarshan JEE,

1) Since the Thar MDI/MM550XD NGCS is "Heavily inspired" by the Jeep YJ Wrangler, my guess is the chassis is good for 120-140Bhp engines.

2) Why and where would the chassis need strengthening?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Sudarshanjee:

Thar CRDe is based on a modifed Bolero NGCS Chasis which is almost same as the NGCS from Thar DI/ NGCS 550 so there is no reason why it should be any weaker than the Thar CRDE chasis.

The Power Steering pump will fowl with the front differential so it will need to be relocated or removed.
My friend at MM tells me the chassis of the DI Thar and CRDe THAR are completely different . If that is true, both the gentlemen above are incorrect!

Any pictures of both the Chassis for deliberations please?
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Old 30th May 2012, 19:29   #13
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Agree to 1) So I surrender on 2)



Got me wrong Saarr , prop shafts can be arranged if engine mounts a little towards left .

BUT

I was talking abt the 'Axle Tubes ' & the Diff ' mass' .

Lets look at it a different way ,
If I am going to fit any engine Under 550/540 ( or any ) bonnet , then the upper limit is mostly set. ( I cant lift the bonnet to accommodate a taller engine > normally ) SO lets start calculating from above wrt to height of this engine -- how much down its going to come ?? & then we need to adjust the Axle tube below( or in front ) that , SO effectively how much lifted the vehicle will be ?






BTW : I would prefer to fit an Axle ON the thar -- would need to mount leaf brackets carefully , Cutting the existing things is not much of a job

Sudarshan
Sudarshan if the upper limit of the engine is set and the sump is hitting the diffs, then there are 2 things generally done. Fabricate engine mounts, take the engine back by a couple of inches or in some cases cut the sump partially.
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Old 30th May 2012, 23:36   #14
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

1) Pick up an NGCS MM550XD chassis with Steering Box, Front & Rear Axles.
And fit the Thar CRDe Body, Engine+Gearbox+Cross-Members, Wiring Harness and Cooling System.
Arka
,
Arka if i buy a Thar CRde engine+gear box+ cross member, wiring harness and cooling system, is it possible to fix it in My NGCS 550,
One more weak point of Thar, friend not observed a hump, Thar jumped on a road Hump, Now sitting in Garage Broken Fan+ Fan Clutch assembly, Radiator and Bonnet dents.
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Old 31st May 2012, 14:09   #15
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Default Re: Can we swap the Thar's IFS with the MM550's rigid axle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swastikviji View Post
,
One more weak point of Thar, friend not observed a hump, Thar jumped on a road Hump, Now sitting in Garage Broken Fan+ Fan Clutch assembly, Radiator and Bonnet dents.
OMG: Thats a pretty expensive damage

Maybe you guys gotta watch before belting the vehicle!!

Last edited by aah78 : 5th June 2012 at 03:57. Reason: Edited.
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