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Old 7th August 2017, 23:06   #16
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
The advantage of getting the MGA one was it has its dedicated wiring harness which is "Plug and Play".

Does this harness have a MGP/MGA part number ? Asking because it would be great if we could get to order this as a spare.
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Old 7th August 2017, 23:16   #17
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Does this harness have a MGP/MGA part number ? Asking because it would be great if we could get to order this as a spare.
It doesn't have a separate part number. It is included in that kit.

MGA part number is only for the Amplifier. I tried enquiring but no use.
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Old 8th August 2017, 14:02   #18
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

Wonderfully detailed thread Anurag. Am sure you must be enjoying the all new set-up and listening to your favorite numbers and smiling more as you drive! Good job on this.

The most important element I loved in this set-up is the MGA Wiring Harness - It's made your job less time consuming else you had to route wires from the Amplifier to all the 4 Doors and reach the speaker. A simple yet brilliant addition this is which came along with the Amplifier. A major deal breaker if someone wants to retain everything as stock.

It was way back in 2008 when without any knowledge and some extra bucks in my wallet I headed to install a Subwoofer and an Amp for my WagonR to an accessory shop. Spent 12K then and came drove home, completely dissatisfied!!

Reason: I could only hear Bass while rest of it was playing with a feeble volume in the background and was astonished if this is what I needed at all.

Being a total novice at this, took some time to entirely go through the connection diagram to understand what each input meant and figured out what had gone wrong.

The installer realised that my Pioneer DEH Series had just one pair of RCA while I had picked a 4 Channel Amplifier. Apart from this, my WagonR had limitation to have just 4" speakers for front, thus the option of powering these small speakers with Amp was ruled out obviously.

Few more days and I decided to make my hands dirty and only because of this I picked up socket spanner kit since I had to remove the seats to do all the wiring again. Since our family belongs to furniture industry, I got speaker boxes done for front that I could place them below seats (and rear)
and finished all the wiring. I still powered the front speakers with Amp using RCA splitters. A good learning experience that was - No Whatsapp, Not much of FB but plain forums like these including www.crutchfield.com. that I heavily relied upon then.

Reading your thread takes me back to those days .

I thought I would add some more important points to benefit the reader and I hope you wont mind that here:
  • At first, the good thing today is that most of the amplifiers come with both RCA (low level) as well as Speaker (High level) inputs. Back then, most models just had RCA Inputs, thus mandating one to use RCA Cable Pair or a combination of RCA + Hi-Lo converter. These options make installation very flexible and in your case it became more easier due to the wonderful MGA Wiring harness
  • REM (Remote Signal): It is mostly the after-market HU's which have a signal wire as part of the wiring with a REM signal that goes to the Amp's REM input. One would not find this in stock systems and may have to try some work-around (mentioned below). However, REM signal would not be necessary when you are using High-level speaker output as Input to Amplifiers
  • Power Line: Since Amplifier draws a lot of amperes by default, the high gauge power cable is connected directly to the Positive terminal of the battery with an inline AGU Fuse that would protect the Amplifier. This is the usual way to connect the Amplifier to power supply

I have illustrated the same in the diagram below so it can help those planning such an upgrade go through the same and then decide what is more suitable for them based on whether they are attempting a DIY or getting it done through an installer or in doubts whether the installer can fool around too (which has happened with me):

Basic differences between using Low-Level (RCA) and Hi-Level (Speaker) inputs to the Amplifier:

DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system-hlvsll.jpg

Using a Hi-Lo Converter along with RCA for Stock Systems:

DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system-hilo.jpg

The most likely manner in which the MGA Harness is constructed:

DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system-mga_harness.jpg

From your pic of the harness, I noticed that the power cable has one end while the other end is part of the Kit. It simply means that this power cable is drawing power within the harness where it is leveraging the 12v power supply from the Stock HU which is coming from the Stock HU's connector.

Typical set-up that I mostly notice is that the power wire runs to the positve terminal of the battery via in-line AGU Fuse - This is when you get it installed at the friendly accessory shop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I have a 4-gauge Amplifier wiring kit on the way from USA that should come in a month or so plus will be adding a 'sub-woofer' when I migrate the setup to the next car.
Hertz Kit + Imported Kit + Stock system of your next Car:

If you are planning to install this imported 4 gauge kit, will you retain the same Wiring Harness from Hertz? I ask this because most Imported (or local) wiring kits come with RCA cable pairs (which itself are the costliest element in the kit along with the power cable) and if you say you would like to retain the stock system of your next car (assuming S-Cross), you need to make sure that the stock system comes with RCA out. Else you would hardly make use of this kit completely.

If you want to use RCA with Stock System - You will need a Hi-Lo Converter but that would also mean that the speaker harness you got as MGA would have to link speaker output wires to the Hi-Lo Converter first, then the RCA Cable Pair running from this converter to the Amplifier. Essentially you will end up using too many cables here.

And with this set-up (RCA with Hi-Lo converter), your next plan should be to trigger the Amp to turn on when you turn the Head Unit On. With your current set-up, the High Level output (of speaker wires) is taking care of this and turning the Amplifier On. This kit has also ensured that you saved good time by not routing all new wires from the Amp to all 4 speakers.

As you may have known, stock systems mostly won't have REM signal. The closest workaround I see here in case if the stock system is missing REM is to wire from ACC with a Fuse and connect to REM Terminal on the Amp. That means the Amplifier would turn on everytime your car's key is in ACC. An in-line switch here can take care of it further because there will be times where you don't want to listen to music and the Amp would still be On.

Again, too many cables, and still the MGA Harness.But as you have mentioned, the MGA Wiring Harness will only make your task easier where you dont have to route speakers wires originating from Amplifier and running to all 4 Doors.

Completely get rid of the MGA Kit and use only the Imported wiring Kit:

I am sure you have this in your plan rather than a combination of using both the MGA and the Imported Kit as above. And since you mention that you want to retain everything as stock, you may only want to use a Hi-Lo converter and make complete use of this Imported kit. Additional tasks for you would be to route all the wires originating from the Amplifier to all the speakers and the subwoofer from underneath the carpet neatly by removing all the 4 seats, the panels around and the final routing. With such an investment, Good quality speaker cables will do more justice to your set-up in your next car than retain the stock wires. Hence, I would suggest you take this route only and compromise on retaining stock set-up which are nothing but your wires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Stock Nippon Tweeters vs Polk Tweeters

Stock Tweeters
Quote:
DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system-stock-vs-polk-tweeter.jpg
From the pics, I notice that the stock tweeters have a plastic clamp and then holes for screws to mount the tweeter in place. How did you mount these Polk Tweeters? Also, these Polk tweeters look larger in diameter? Or is that just an illusion created. I am asking because when I installed this in the Ertiga which never had any stock tweeters anyway, I drilled a larger diameter hole and then fit them through the threaded ring that fits onto the tweeters and secures it. Due to the design of the grille on the tweeter cover in your Swift, you may not be able to do it this way but would still like to know how the final mounting was and if that could be accommodated there.
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Old 8th August 2017, 16:18   #19
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
How did you mount these Polk Tweeters?
Currently have mounted the tweeter on the door using double sided tape.

In the process of making a same template to mount the new tweeter on the cowl.
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Old 8th August 2017, 17:29   #20
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Currently have mounted the tweeter on the door using double sided tape.
Thought so because I noticed that there were no pictures of this while you had posted front and back pictures of the outgoing tweeters. When you get time, do post the pictures of the installed tweeters too.

What about the wires for the tweeters then if it's pasted using a Double Sided Tape? Are they not exposed (even partially) because you used a Tape and did not drill a hole?
Quote:
In the process of making a same template to mount the new tweeter on the cowl.
I think you should just drill a hole on A Pillar Trim and route this. Easier later to remove and the actual holes left behind would be very small for the next owner. A template would be super good but then you have another 6 months before you sell this and pick the next car.

Last edited by paragsachania : 8th August 2017 at 17:35.
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Old 8th August 2017, 17:58   #21
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Thought so because I noticed that there were no pictures of this while you had posted front and back pictures of the outgoing tweeters.
Yes, that was done purpose since I didn't have before-after images. Will update when I can get hold of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
What about the wires for the tweeters then if it's pasted using a Double Sided Tape?
Wiring for tweeters was passed through the door through the frame and zip tied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
I think you should just drill a hole on A Pillar Trim and route this.
No ways. I won't do it however small it is. That is not acceptable to me.

I'll do a template and I'll wait till then. I prefer a clean setup. Can't think of holes/drills etc.

Last edited by a4anurag : 8th August 2017 at 18:12.
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Old 8th August 2017, 18:41   #22
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Yes, that was done purpose since I didn't have before-after images. Will update when I can get hold of them.
Thank you Anurag. Will look forward to it.

Quote:
No ways. I won't do it however small it is. That is not acceptable to me.

I'll do a template and I'll wait till then. I prefer a clean setup. Can't think of holes/drills etc.
Fair enough. But the holes (Drilling etc) that I was referring were certainly super smaller in diameter compared to these holes on the center console of your Armrest here in the pic and not a bigger one that is the size of the Tweeters per se.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Passenger seat removed to place the amplifier and secure the wiring
DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system-29.-passeneger-seat-removed-place-amp-route-wires.jpg

And when you want to sell your car and still want to give it without these tiny holes, the pillar trim would cost as less as 300 for one (while you will need 2).

In my case I made proper hole to accommodate the Tweeters this way on the quarter panel glass cover:

DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system-20140826_125112.jpg

Tomorrow if I have to get rid of these tweeters entirely, I can replace these spending less than 500 bucks am sure.

Would love to see your DIY on the template.
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Old 8th August 2017, 19:37   #23
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
...Armrest here in the pic and not a bigger one that is the size of the Tweeters per se.
Order placed for that central armrest console where the holes are seen in above image. It should hopefully arrive soon post which that holes as seen too be off my car.

Whatever be the size, no more drilling etc. I am sure on it. Shall update if and when possible.

Have made a rough design in mind, just trying to make time to frame that template. If So goes good, by weekend should have it in my car

Last edited by a4anurag : 8th August 2017 at 19:41.
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Old 8th August 2017, 20:06   #24
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Order placed for that central armrest console where the holes are seen in above image. It should hopefully arrive soon post which that holes as seen too be off my car.
Wonderful Anurag. Glad you are planning to fix the exposed holes with a good intent that the next lucky buyer should get a super neat and clean car.

OT: Am sure this means you won't have the Armrest anymore? Because even MGA Armrest available today that fits prefectly well is fitted by drilling few holes on this center console.

For your next car, do evaluate completely utilizing the imported wiring kit which you have ordered. You may have to compromise little bit on the wiring part though.

Would love to see your templates to fix the tweeters. Thanks again!

Last edited by paragsachania : 8th August 2017 at 20:07.
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Old 8th August 2017, 20:13   #25
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

Speaker Wire - Quaden 12 gauge (99.99% OFC)

DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system-dude_cant_read_lmao.jpg
Hmm, the picture says 16 guage, you say 12 guage. Am I missing something? 16awg is 1.31sqmm whereas 12awg is 3.31sqmm, difference is massive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post

From your pic of the harness, I noticed that the power cable has one end while the other end is part of the Kit. It simply means that this power cable is drawing power within the harness where it is leveraging the 12v power supply from the Stock HU which is coming from the Stock HU's connector.
Indeed, I feel this is very dangerous. The amp has 20A * 2 fuses which means max load is 40A? The fat wire going into the amp is connected to one of them skinny wires behind the original connector? This is a recipe for disaster.

If the amp hits max load and pulls so much current, it will blow all the fuses and replays, not to mention few electrical components as well. Not to mention if the amp does draw a significant current, less than blowing fuses it will cause a massive voltage drop on the main lines and can cause other systems to malfunction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Typical set-up that I mostly notice is that the power wire runs to the positve terminal of the battery via in-line AGU Fuse - This is when you get it installed at the friendly accessory shop.
This is exactly why exteernal amplifiers need a direct line from the battery so that it does not cause a voltage drop on other electricals. Plus it needs a beefy wire for its power requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Thought so because I noticed that there were no pictures of this while you had posted front and back pictures of the outgoing tweeters. When you get time, do post the pictures of the installed tweeters too.

What about the wires for the tweeters then if it's pasted using a Double Sided Tape? Are they not exposed (even partially) because you used a Tape and did not drill a hole?
I think you should just drill a hole on A Pillar Trim and route this. Easier later to remove and the actual holes left behind would be very small for the next owner. A template would be super good but then you have another 6 months before you sell this and pick the next car.
I agree. A tweeter with no restrictions in front of it will obviously sound better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post

And when you want to sell your car and still want to give it without these tiny holes, the pillar trim would cost as less as 300 for one (while you will need 2).

In my case I made proper hole to accommodate the Tweeters this way on the quarter panel glass cover:

Tomorrow if I have to get rid of these tweeters entirely, I can replace these spending less than 500 bucks am sure.
I just checked, A pillars for swift cost 127rs each. Less price to pay for better sound and proper installation.

https://boodmo.com/catalog/part-trim...gray-32999412/

https://boodmo.com/catalog/part-trim...gray-32999411/

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Have made a rough design in mind, just trying to make time to frame that template.
Eagerly waiting for it!

Last edited by SunnyBoi : 8th August 2017 at 20:15.
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Old 8th August 2017, 20:48   #26
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Originally Posted by SunnyBoi View Post
Hmm, the picture says 16 guage, you say 12 guage!
Thanks, reported for correction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyBoi View Post
This is a recipe for disaster.
Waiting for my BIL to reach Mumbai (Mid September) I'll get that amplifier kit which is when I'll chuck the MGA harness and use that 4GA wiring. I have already pulled the speaker wire and tied it to the doors from the amplifier location.

I am very well aware of the issues. But it is a makeshift setup. I know the risks.

Last edited by a4anurag : 8th August 2017 at 21:00.
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Old 9th August 2017, 07:46   #27
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Default Re: DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system

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Originally Posted by SunnyBoi View Post
This is exactly why exteernal amplifiers need a direct line from the battery so that it does not cause a voltage drop on other electricals. Plus it needs a beefy wire for its power requirements.
This seems to be the reason why this warning (Image below). You can't really fiddle with the Gain or output levels obviously and they have also made sure to mention this is applicable for Maruti Cars to play safe. Ideally, any increase in Gain (and then the Output) would mean more load on the Amp as you increase the Volume to higher levels and that would end up heating up the tiny OE wires and fry them too.

DIY: Upgrading my Swift's ICE system-warning-ms.jpg

This just means that you cannot neither follow the instructions in the Manual of the Amp that mention how to configure the settings nor can you have your own set of levels defined for front & rear as per your taste. In a way, this creates a restriction. I am sure imported kit that Anurag gets will solve all this and he can further play around with the settings to create the right listening stage in his Blue Streak.
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