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Old 4th March 2013, 20:50   #196
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Whatever it is, it is still illegal. Moreover, people care more about their 'comfort' than the respect for the law.
I don't subscribe to your take. I've a problem with the SC judgment compared to what we got in the United States or the EU. India is not some 200,000 km2 country, with fixed/clear weather pattern. This judgment is quite myopic and poor in taste. Also we can't ignore the magnitude, hundreds of crore loss. Will SC or Home Ministry pay? Having said, in how many cities/towns, these are getting enforced:

SC ruling on seat belts?
SC ruling on smoking?
SC ruling on wearing helmets?

That was my response I gave to a Traffic DCP (IPS). He was shocked, only looking at my car in jealousy. I'm currently exploring any option to file a petition in the SC against SC ruling! I've no intention to accept silently with such 'hot' laws (read as blood sucking) passed only to create more troubles to the people under the lame pretext of security. I can't stand these (un)educated and hyper fools.

ps: my parents fully complied with the regulation to remove the films from only one car, two got exempted under this regulation.

Some time ago, I suggested members here not to buy any expensive car or bike in India. I stand vindicated. Not after the new budget bomb, don't!

[OT]These guys made a similar bungling with Adhaar cards too. But who paid the price be it 200/- or 500/- or even 1000/- for a FREE application form? It's the people who are gullible; most happen to be poor and middle class, stood in lines like fools weathering heat and frustration. I feed sorry for them. Ditto with Voted ID cards too!


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Old 4th March 2013, 22:44   #197
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennarossi View Post
I don't subscribe to your take. I've a problem with the SC judgment compared to what we got in the United States or the EU. India is not some 200,000 km2 country, with fixed/clear weather pattern. This judgment is quite myopic and poor in taste. Also we can't ignore the magnitude, hundreds of crore loss. Will SC or Home Ministry pay? Having said, in how many cities/towns, these are getting enforced:

SC ruling on seat belts?
SC ruling on smoking?
SC ruling on wearing helmets?

That was my response I gave to a Traffic DCP (IPS). He was shocked, only looking at my car in jealousy. I'm currently exploring any option to file a petition in the SC against SC ruling! I've no intention to accept silently with such 'hot' laws (read as blood sucking) passed only to create more troubles to the people under the lame pretext of security. I can't stand these (un)educated and hyper fools.[/i]
Please let us know when you are done exploring the options, till then it is a rule and we are bound to except it. Seat belts, smoking and helmets are the rules that harm the person breaking them. SUn film ban is imposed to protect those who fall victim to the illegal activities that happen behind these films. India can not be compared to US or EU countries. Here, very few citizens followed the %age rule on tints.

It is not a lame pretext of security. It is SECURITY. We are a land of 100 crore human biengs and any small security breach puts 100s of life in danger. Not like US or EU where a train derailment may cause casualities in single digit.

IMO, we have two options when when we can't stand these so called fools- fight them to beat them or leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennarossi View Post
[OT]These guys made a similar bungling with Adhaar cards too. But who paid the price be it 200/- or 500/- or even 1000/- for a FREE application form? It's the people who are gullible; most happen to be poor and middle class, stood in lines like fools weathering heat and frustration. I feed sorry for them. Ditto with Voted ID cards too!
It is really OT and shall not be mixed or compared with sun film ban.

P.S. You broke rule here of not using abussive language on this forum. I believe this was uncalled for.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 5th March 2013 at 05:56. Reason: Edited abusive language in quoted post.
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Old 4th March 2013, 23:32   #198
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Please let us know when you are done exploring the options, till then it is a rule and we are bound to except it. Seat belts, smoking and helmets are the rules that harm the person breaking them. SUn film ban is imposed to protect those who fall victim to the illegal activities that happen behind these films.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not new to legal arena. Trust me, it's quite easy to sue someone in the US (including the IRS - equivalent of the IT dept. in India) so I won't go there. I took some to courts couple of times in India. Also, cracked a few. Example, one moron demanded 5 lakh bribe to grant me some EoU manufacturing clearance. I went to ACB, helped them to trap him. So you see?

Anyway, where did I ever hint to break any rule?

a) was rooting at lame judgments, without giving any proper thought to state weather patterns and huge financial loss. In the US, tint laws differ from State to State.

b) how rules are ignored (belts, smoking and helmets) or enforced at Traffic police (and/or local Govts) will and wish.

c) based of these rules, how Traffic folks 'milk' people. Even if you have everything correct, they explore 'avenues' to get you! I agree that many people aren't holy cows either (at least 1/3rd break rules etc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
It is not a lame pretext of security. It is SECURITY. We are a land of 100 crore human biengs and any small security breach puts 100s of life in danger. Not like US or EU where a train derailment may cause casualities in single digit.
You are still living in the billion keyword. We're 1300 million or 1.3 billion. The US population is 310 million.

a) I don't deny about a few disadvantages with sun films but my point is this judgment doesn't adhere to widely followed International standards (70% & 50%) when we follow them in other cases. Say, Euro ratings for emissions, Basel ratings for banks etc. So why this?

b) Most lame is to remove the film altogether, especially in hot cities with mercury shoots above 40C.

c) This rule goes against saving Fuel (A/C usage goes up), which results in the rise of Emission levels.

d) Obviously, more loss to our FOREX due to losses incurred in (c). It's not that geeky to compute the fuel loss per city.

e) Importantly, this doesn't help to curb rapes because most of them are committed else where (homes, schools, colleges etc). I'll concede that this will help only to an extent in kidnapping etc.

f) One more is most Taxpayers are entitled to protect their hard earned money. Who is going to pay for the losses? Forget the cost incurred on films, at least Ministry or Traffic departments cared to do removal job for free of charge? So people should get pockets burned on two fronts: to put films and also to remove them. Hundreds of crore gone in drain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
IMO, we have two options when when we can't stand these so called fools- fight them to beat them or leave.
I don't know about you, but I'm incredibly annoyed with these hyper fools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
It is really OT and shall not be mixed or compared with sun film ban.

P.S. You broke rule here of not using abussive language on this forum. I believe this was uncalled for.
I know it was OT. I'm sorry for breaking the rule. However, it is WHAT IT IS on the ground. Please stand in line for 5 hours under intense Sun, with hardly any food or water. Their lives are so bad, sometimes I feel guilty for having so much with me...so I help them as much I can unlike many of these hyper fools.
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Old 5th March 2013, 00:13   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sennarossi View Post
...Having said, in how many cities/towns, these are getting enforced:

SC ruling on seat belts?
SC ruling on smoking?
SC ruling on wearing helmets?
...
Non enforcement of laws cannot be a reason for citizens to not comply with laws. So, till such time that your petition gets heard and the ruling overturned you must remove those tints. That is the rule of the game.
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Old 5th March 2013, 00:25   #200
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

"Ignorantia juris non excusat"

I agree. Rule is a rule unless it has been called off/modified.
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Old 5th March 2013, 06:49   #201
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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Originally Posted by k2max6 View Post
Can't we get tinted glasses for cars like wagon R etc . from outside market. Atleast the side window glasses.I don't think they would cost more than a good sunfilm.
No, I checked with maruti dealer who confirmed that there is only one part no for window glassed for my Dzire. The same chap contacted outside sources and also did not find any tinted window glasses.
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Old 5th March 2013, 13:16   #202
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennarossi View Post
I've no intention to accept silently with such 'hot' laws (read as blood sucking) passed only to create more troubles to the people under the lame pretext of security. I can't stand these (un)educated and hyper fools.
I agree with this to some extent. How would removing the film (thereby increasing the visibility inside car) help restrict such activities? Are the police smart enough to identify the culprits/criminals by merely looking at them?
It is really difficult in our country considering the soaring temperature, to remove the sunfilms from the windows. If the police is not able to track and arrest the criminals, how would ordinary people like me help them by removing the sunfilms?
If we go by this rule/logic, having curtains at home/hotels is also as offence, isnt it?

Also, in the absence of sunfilms, petty theives will have a clear view of the valuables placed in the car. Are the police capable enough to avoid these incidents?
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Old 5th March 2013, 14:16   #203
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennarossi View Post
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not new to legal arena. Trust me, it's quite easy to sue someone in the US (including the IRS - equivalent of the IT dept. in India) so I won't go there. I took some to courts couple of times in India. Also, cracked a few.
In US, it is quite easy to prosecute an offender, in India it is not. In that case it is better to prevent a crime than take a legal action afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennarossi View Post
b) how rules are ignored (belts, smoking and helmets) or enforced at Traffic police (and/or local Govts) will and wish.

c) based of these rules, how Traffic folks 'milk' people. Even if you have everything correct, they explore 'avenues' to get you! I agree that many people aren't holy cows either (at least 1/3rd break rules etc)
We are talking about police reforms here. And yes, it is need of the times. SC must intervene to either prevent or reduce 'milking' by policemen. Intalling CCTV at junctions and in Police vans may help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennarossi View Post
a) I don't deny about a few disadvantages with sun films but my point is this judgment doesn't adhere to widely followed International standards (70% & 50%) when we follow them in other cases. Say, Euro ratings for emissions, Basel ratings for banks etc. So why this?

b) Most lame is to remove the film altogether, especially in hot cities with mercury shoots above 40C.

c) This rule goes against saving Fuel (A/C usage goes up), which results in the rise of Emission levels.

d) Obviously, more loss to our FOREX due to losses incurred in (c). It's not that geeky to compute the fuel loss per city.

e) Importantly, this doesn't help to curb rapes because most of them are committed else where (homes, schools, colleges etc). I'll concede that this will help only to an extent in kidnapping etc.

f) One more is most Taxpayers are entitled to protect their hard earned money. Who is going to pay for the losses? Forget the cost incurred on films, at least Ministry or Traffic departments cared to do removal job for free of charge? So people should get pockets burned on two fronts: to put films and also to remove them. Hundreds of crore gone in drain.


I don't know about you, but I'm incredibly annoyed with these hyper fools.


I know it was OT. I'm sorry for breaking the rule. However, it is WHAT IT IS on the ground. Please stand in line for 5 hours under intense Sun, with hardly any food or water. Their lives are so bad, sometimes I feel guilty for having so much with me...so I help them as much I can unlike many of these hyper fools.
70%/50% rule existed here but its only these taxpayers who broke this law and force SC to take some decision.

I agree it is a loss but then it is for greater good.

Recent news article proves that it may prevent such cases, although here the culprits were caught after the crime was committed.:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/t...-inside-327874

There was another news article where a spoiled brat installed film on his car to stage kidnapping bid and extort money from his father. His motive of installing film was not to get respite from heat!

I am annoyed by the offenders and incapable policing that forced the courts to pass such ruling.

Adhar and NPR are flawed schemes IMO, but again it is OT and I do not intend to discuss it here. Moreover I am scared of another (ridiculous) rule 66A to discuss such matters online.
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Old 5th March 2013, 14:33   #204
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Day 1 - Ban on Sun Films came into effect.

First week bonanza for Govt of states (Kar - Bangalore) INR.300/- to remove the sunfilms by cops on road.

Drive successful with huge amount of money collected.

Few weeks after, known incidents which were narrated by victims themselves.

1. Friend of mine along with his wife parked his car in the adjacent lane of KFC Basavanagudi.

His wife left her handbag, in the rear seat of the car and went to KFC to grab some snacks. When they return the rear window is forced open, and handbag was missing. Much valuables along with credit cards gone.

2. A lady colleague was driving home from office in ORR in her car, and she was scared to death when 2 bikes with drunk youths followed her till BTM signal eve-teasing her all the way.

3. A HU and speakers were robbed along with Amp/Woofers near my residence.,

4. NO DECLINE IN CRIME RATE.

5. INCREASE IN ROAD RAGE.

6. SCORCHING HOT SUMMER brings in it's own skin diseases.


So folks, this is what I have seen all these months.

In my previous post too, I had mentioned on this Ruling of Supreme Court.

Motor Vehicles ACT is also LAW, but this law was made mandatory after a BILL was passed in the Parliament and all elected MP's sign off and Finally President of India approves.

In MVA, there is a clause on sun-films 70% 50 % etc. won't go to nitty gritty of those.

and Supreme court says NO SUN-FILMS except OEM's.

The law/order from Supreme court has to be implemented FIRST in the MOTOR Vehicles ACT, by same passing the bill to modify the law/act.

New law with changes needs to be approved and sign-off by the president of india.

Though Supreme court order is with immediate effect, the changes in act as to be done per process.


I CARE for my safety and my families. I have never removed the sun-films on my car whatsoever the rule was.

No disrespect to the law, but I am ready to pay fine any no of times, but I need my safety in car and belongings inside the car.

I have followed the same till date, my new Vehicle also has a sun-film installed.

I was caught 1 times in all these months and have paid fine without any regret. Though COP was forcing me to remove the sun-film, i never budged saying, YOU COLLECT FINE, I am ready to pay.

It's been say what more than 8 months of the rule being in place? I am still sticking to what my necessity is.
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Old 5th March 2013, 14:37   #205
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Hi All,

I found this type of Sun Shade in E-Bay. http://www.ebay.in/itm/Automatic-Sid...item2c6bd9e805

This can be nicely fitted in the window and attached to the glass so that it can be rolled up and down with the window. Has anyone used this? Also, is this illegal or legal as per the Supreme court directives?
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Old 5th March 2013, 16:56   #206
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Is there a petition somewhere that we can all sign to alter this, for lack of a better word, silly regulation? Before passing on this rule, why didn't the Government look into all the implications that this rule would bring in. I can see more problems cropping up after the ban on sun films rather than before.

As of now, I just use a white hand towel and stick it between the roll up window to block the sun - at least on the driver side. When a cop stops me, I'll just take it out. Can't help it.
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Old 5th March 2013, 17:21   #207
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

I think its a bit too late to file a petition against this 'we-all-know-its-silly' rule. I am very very sure that by the time the judgement arrives, we would all have moved to a new car or two!
I am tired of driving around with a sweaty face and hiding my right arm under the A-pillar's shadow while at the signals, ever since I bought my car in June last year. Yesterday while driving my dad's car i realised what difference the sun film makes to the entire journey's experience!
I have decided to go for a light shade of sun film (lesser probability of getting caught) and enjoy my drives at least till the Police catch up with me.
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Old 5th March 2013, 18:27   #208
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Quote:
It is not a lame pretext of security. It is SECURITY.
Quote:
I agree it is a loss but then it is for greater good.

Recent news article proves that it may prevent such cases, although here the culprits were caught after the crime was committed.:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/t...-inside-327874

There was another news article where a spoiled brat installed film on his car to stage kidnapping bid and extort money from his father. His motive of installing film was not to get respite from heat!
I have been saying this since this rule was passed. There is a high chance of some woman getting molested, sexually assaulted because her car didn't have sun films. All of us have experienced how our female relatives are leered and stared at by road user's. There are many women that can't wear a sleeveless top while going out in a car fearing the lusty stares of people here. Each one of us has experienced that, I don't know which world the authorities are living in. Has the government thought about the probability that the existence of a sun film may save a woman from getting assaulted or raped?

Secondly, this ruling has been in force since July or August with the cops in many cities enthusiastically enforcing it. Can the government agencies share any data on reduction in crime rates post this ruling?

What about people who suffer from sun allergies or problems? I, myself have Rosacea and have been advised by the doctor to avoid sun as far as possible.

Have the SC judges heard of skin cancer? Have they heard of depleting ozone layer and what the ozone layer does?

The problem of women's security is not going to get solved by removing sun films or better policing. It's a cultural problem and the solution has to start from the time kids are born. We have to teach our son's to respect women. Start from simple things like asking him to get a glass of water for his sister after they come home from school. It may sound silly but it's just one of the many subtle ways to make boy's / men understand that women are our equal partner's to be cherished and respected and not just to be used like some commodity.
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Old 5th March 2013, 19:08   #209
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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I have been saying this since this rule was passed. There is a high chance of some woman getting molested, sexually assaulted because her car didn't have sun films. All of us have experienced how our female relatives are leered and stared at by road user's. There are many women that can't wear a sleeveless top while going out in a car fearing the lusty stares of people here. Each one of us has experienced that, I don't know which world the authorities are living in. Has the government thought about the probability that the existence of a sun film may save a woman from getting assaulted or raped?

Secondly, this ruling has been in force since July or August with the cops in many cities enthusiastically enforcing it. Can the government agencies share any data on reduction in crime rates post this ruling?

What about people who suffer from sun allergies or problems? I, myself have Rosacea and have been advised by the doctor to avoid sun as far as possible.

Have the SC judges heard of skin cancer? Have they heard of depleting ozone layer and what the ozone layer does?

The problem of women's security is not going to get solved by removing sun films or better policing. It's a cultural problem and the solution has to start from the time kids are born. We have to teach our son's to respect women. Start from simple things like asking him to get a glass of water for his sister after they come home from school. It may sound silly but it's just one of the many subtle ways to make boy's / men understand that women are our equal partner's to be cherished and respected and not just to be used like some commodity.
It has been said umpteen times that the only way out is to ask the area legislator to pass a law to allow sun films conforming to VLT as per Act. Or do so during next election. If more people do this, maybe a law might just be passed.

The problem is that we the general public have created a distance between us and the law makers (elected representatives). We need to interact and get our concerns heard and acted upon in return for our future endorsement of their candidature. Writing on Team BHP or social networks, or signing a campaign will do zilch in a country of 1 billion people.
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Old 8th March 2013, 04:10   #210
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Given that tinted glasses provided by OEMs are legal, are auto companies thinking of launching variants with this? I would presume in a city like Chennai, tinted glass would be even more important than power windows.
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