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23rd August 2013, 08:37 | #91 |
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| Hi Pujaari, The more powerful German cars, have absolutely no space for any water or other external elements to enter their engines. It's one of the factors that makes them displace so much power. The Japanese and American cars can easily handle a fair bit of water inside their engines as there is space for it. If you own a German, you need to be a very well informed customer. Money alone does not make you a deserving candidate. 1. There are insurance packages available that cover the hydrostatic lock, but you need to specially ask for them and you need to pay a premium for it obviously. MOst customers don't bother. 2. A hydrostatic lock only occurs when the car goes into a heavily waterlogged area where the water is consistently above bumper level, hence being able to enter the engine from beneath air intakes. Customers should be more careful when doing this. Nobody will warn you. It's information you need to be aware of. 3. Most customers try to restart the car several times if it stops in a waterlogged area. This is the worst thing you can do. Every time you try to restart the ignition it sucks more and more water in and the cost of repair goes up exponentially with each attempt. Most dealers will specially warn you against this. Mind you, this phenomena isn't restricted to German cars, Japanese cars too have the same problem but their threshold for tolerance is much higher. My neighbours civic had this recently and he paid 5 lacs Cousins bmw got this last month. He didn't pay a penny as it was covered by insurance. Last edited by GTO : 23rd August 2013 at 18:04. Reason: Quoted post deleted |
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23rd August 2013, 10:44 | #92 |
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ I agree with the points that you have made. I dont own any of these super cars but was just found amusing the fact that a car 50 lakh worth stranded in water and wagon r dashing past it ..haha. Just that a person who spends that kind of money assumes that all such eventualities are taken care of and wouldnt pinch him even if he has to pay 20k extra premium. But i guess audi only recently has started telling their customers about this.I had a german tenant 5 yrs back who owned a land rover and had shown me pics of the car literally in river with water levels up to window levels. Always had that image in mind.... Also my personal view is that all these big brands should take cue from hondas and toyotas when having indian centric models available here. I feel everyone howsoever much,he spends seeks value. Its no more like 'beamer ya merc hai average nahi degi' When i spend 50 lakhs for a powerful machine , why not have some technology that suits indian mindset. I guess bmw now have started marketing about good mileage. Your points well taken sir, thanks just that could not easily digest 18 lakhs as repair charges.. Guess my cousin would spend that much and then probably sellit off for around 25 |
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23rd August 2013, 11:31 | #93 | |
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ Quote:
Large parts of rural India do have net access and people are clued in on cars, that is their biggest buy after all. German cars have acquired a reputation for being unreliable so the Audi story is nothing exceptional. I doubt anyone gets this kind of car for practicality, shopping in this segment is about making a statement, Audi has managed market share and as the other two are not known for reliability, this incident won't dent the brand much. | |
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23rd August 2013, 12:15 | #94 | |||
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ Quote:
A German (or European) car isn't some modern wonder of engineering. The Japanese and Korean makers in India might focus more on price and comfort than driving pleasure, but that's not on account of a technological gap - they have models that match (in some cases, surpass) European cars on the 'driving pleasure' front; it's just that they don't sell those models in India, or if they do, tune 'em differently. Quote:
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But getting back to this issue, it's still not clear what happened - what was the fault, what was the cause, what exactly did Audi offer... Ergo, no comments on that. | |||
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23rd August 2013, 12:20 | #95 | |
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ Quote:
AD Last edited by GTO : 23rd August 2013 at 18:06. Reason: Removing broken quote | |
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23rd August 2013, 13:28 | #96 | |
BHPian Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Ludhiana
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| Quote:
Let me respectfully correct you. I think you misread what I said. It has to with the space for the air and water within the engine itself my friend. Not the engine bay. I don't recall saying "bay" anywhere. I would suggest you walk into the nearest BMW dealer and they will explain to you exactly how BMWs/Audis are most prone to this hydrostatic lock phenomena because of the engine design I just mentioned above. Thats how i know of it when i purchased my BMW . I think they will be able to do a more convincing job of it than I can In most cases including Japanese Indian made cars, a hydrostatic lock means they have to replace the engine itself. So "amount of damage" being more in diesels isn't relevant. The engine will be replaced be it an Audi or a Honda. Hence the exorbitant cost ! The Hydrostatic lock has very little to do with the car being diesel or petrol. Both engines are prone to lock up when they suck in a fair amount of water. The difference only lies in the fact that how much water can an engine handle? In case of German cars be it petrol or diesel, the tolerance is much lower than their less powerful Japanese counterparts. [/quote]May I amend that to "If you own a European car, be prepared for more frequent niggles"? I'm the first one to make fun of Audi users, but it's in jest and I certainly don't agree with you needing to be some sort of worldly sophisticate to enjoy a good car. European cars just aren't as reliable as Asian ones. Luxo-barges also come with a lot more electronic kit, which doesn't much like the humidity + high temps encountered in India. Luxury cars have greater complexity, and that makes them more prone to faults.[/quote] I seem to have offended you. Im sorry That wasn't my intention. In no way did I mean to imply the above mentioned "worldly sophistication". But yes you do need to be a car nut or an informed customer in the least. Else you will end up paying 18-20 lacs for being ignorant. If a person hasn't insured his 40 lac Q5 against hydrostatic lock and then has driven it into a severely water logged road ( the Q5 has sufficient ground clearance, I think it's safe to say the road was severely waterlogged for a Q5 to be affected) - He is ignorant to say the least ! While there is no question that Japanese cars are way more reliable be it due to tall boy designs, petrol engines or any other reasons. I've always maintained that German & italian cars, especially the Big 3 need to be taken care of like parents care about naughty kids. A minute of ignorance can cost you a bomb ! And continuous care and attention to detail can make their relationship with you unforgettable ! I'm afraid It's an acquired taste . | |
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23rd August 2013, 14:19 | #97 | ||||
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ Quote:
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Yup, the Q3 or Q5 cars you hear about getting stuck are not because they're more advanced and delicate, and deserve special treatment, but again, as you said, user error. People think these are butch 4x4s perfect for a trip across the Amazon rainforest. They're not. They're road cars - slightly-higher hatchbacks with AWD. But these cars should be able to get through streets a Swift can take. If they need special treatment, it's a failing. Quote:
Eh, we're digressing from the issue though! | ||||
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23rd August 2013, 15:11 | #98 |
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ I think this is all part of an elaborate plan by these so called businessmen are conmen who have just got together to try and gangbang the company.Out of all these people ,only one has a problem with his car and that too due to a broken v belt which is not rare as machines are prone to failures.Even so,the company offered to change the engine at their cost which the owner refused as he wanted a replacement .This is similar to the case wherein a person who buys a 1bhk flat from a builder and after three months of the sale finds out that his bathroom has a fault wherein the commode develops a fault and is flushing in the stuff instead of flushing out,so in this case will the owner seek a flat replacement or agree to a complete replacement of the offending equipment and new interiors of the bathroom which the builder offers.Also nowhere does it mention what are the other problems faced by the other owners,or are they just having second thoughts after purchasing their cars. |
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23rd August 2013, 15:49 | #99 | |
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| Quote:
Europeans are too arrogant to india - proof their cars. Too arrogant to pay up when it's their fault. People who are saying the customers are getting greedy and blowing things out of proportion blah blah have obviously not dealt with the European car manufacturers. the kind of arrogance on display by the European manufacturers can only be brought down if a few more incidents like this happen. Mind you. I'm not at all saying everybody with a fault in their vehicle should stage a dharna or wash their hands in the running Ganga. But yes, if you have a German vehicle worth 30 lacs and if it stops in the middle of the highway for no fault of yours, stage a dharna large enough to get it covered by the media and settle for nothing less than a replacement car. Anything less would be a compromise. In many circumstances a car stopping in the middle of a high speed run at a highway may mean the difference between life and death Let me quote an incident that happened with a friend here. He bought a Q7 about 6-7 years back when it had first come out. He was driving it at about 160 when some error warning showed up and within a second the steering got locked up and the car lost power. The result was a massive massive accident where the front left side of the car was completely damaged, the alloy wheel broke off and resulted in the car being over turned. The driver did not get hurt. Just a few bruises. You will be surprised that in this case, because the accident was so severe, to avoid any public outcry AUDI themselves replaced the car without any conversation. They had to import a new one, as at that point Audi was yet to start assembly of Q7 in india. Same problem, different outcome. | |
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23rd August 2013, 16:13 | #100 | |
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ Quote:
Still buddy, here the scene is that after the vehicle ran for 2 years with periodic service at A.S.S how can such a thing happen. It has 2 dimensions to it i.e Lack of Communication from the service staff of Audi considering the accumen of the indian herd of technicians and 2nd Audi as a good brand may have pointed this issue to the owner but he may have delayed the repairing of it sighting the expense issues as owning a high end car does not necessarily mean that the owner too is a technically wizard with sophasticated attitude for the car. So no-one can make a one-sided inference. AD | |
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23rd August 2013, 16:22 | #101 | |
BHPian Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Ludhiana
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| Quote:
Just FYI. This belt issue is very very common amongst Audi cars. It's happened to us too while going to delhi 2 years back. It seems they're using a substandard belt (or some other material) which is causing this and continue to ignore this problem. The belt cost us 2 extra days in a delhi hotel and 70000 rupees. Mind you this was in the 2nd year of ownership. I say Audi need to pay through their nose to learn a lesson. | |
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23rd August 2013, 16:28 | #102 | |
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| Team, I came across a statement yesterday from a fellow bhpian saying why is Audi not giving details about the history of vehicle service may be there is a lapse from its end. The reason for the above as I counter may be Audi is no mood to hamper their goodwill and they also are well aware that in this case there are 14 others who are willing to dump their vehicles so to avoid a massive de-grade they are giving potent and acceptable options to the concerned owner. By not getting into the nity-grity of the service history they are not trying to hide a lapse rather they are looking at a bigger picture as a brand and shall rule-out their verdict accordingly. AD Quote:
Eg: If a group of 10 people buy a dozen of kashmiri apples and by chance 1 of them gets a rotten apple in his/her lot then is it ok if he/she convinces the others also to throw off their apples too just because of 1 rotten apple? Rather a deligent way would be to go and humbly speak to the concerned vendor and solve it ammicabaly. AD Last edited by Eddy : 24th August 2013 at 09:59. Reason: Merged | |
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23rd August 2013, 17:31 | #103 |
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ I for one, like many others have to be with Audi on this. It just looks like this customer is trying to take advantage of this situation and try and get his 2 year old car changed into a brand new Audi. If he really has such a big issue/and has lost faith in the brand, why would he be willing to settle for a new Audi? I think Audi should retain their stand and not oblige to his wishes, as this would set a bad precedent. Not only for Audi but for all the other car manufacturers too. This would lead to more customers just demanding a replacement for the smallest of repairs. Now that the bad press has already happened, just giving this man a new car is not going to win them any brownie points. |
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23rd August 2013, 17:34 | #104 | |
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ Quote:
Belts could be breaking due to our tropical weather, since rubber tends to harden due to environment. Either case, I agree that Audi (and other two German Luxo Barge makers) need to do a bit more research and use region appropriate parts, rather than blindly importing parts that may not function well on our sub-continent. I wonder how they do on Countries like Thailand, which has similar weather conditions like India. | |
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23rd August 2013, 21:24 | #105 | |
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| Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’ Quote:
Cmon buddy, water is water. Once it gets into the engine the engine is done, water cannot be compressed. Maybe what you mean to say is Jap cars have more safegaurds against water entering the engine, like higher placed intakes. The part I highlighted in bold is something in wholeheartedly agree with. And also do be careful with your F30. A friends F30 sucked in water while being driven through 6 inches of water, and the engine stalled. After being towed to the dealership there were 20 other F30s which had suffered the same fate. Apparently the intakes are placed pretty low which is why this issue happened. And I know for sure that my friend was/is not negligent with any car. | |
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