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Old 5th January 2008, 02:28   #16
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Here is his email address: dlevin5@bloomberg.net

Feel free to let him know what you think of his article. And publish the contents for us.. and also the reply you get.
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Old 5th January 2008, 10:38   #17
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Hi dudes,
I have written a pretty strict mail to the CII and the guys from there who are organising the Auto Expo. lets see if they have the decency to reply...But there is nothing to feel bad about...i'd just keep shut and let our work do the talking!
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Old 5th January 2008, 11:16   #18
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When Tata spoke about a 3 lac hatch that will be as comfy as an Amby, as cheap to buy as any entry-level hatch and offer phenomenal diesel economy, he received a lot of flack and apprehension. Well, the Indica and Indigo sell over 10,000 cars a month and has consistently figured in the Top 2 & 3 best selling slots.

The success of the 1 lac car will be the best comeback to the critics.
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Old 5th January 2008, 11:48   #19
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When we were talking to Ratan Tata the other day, we had asked him a question about his thoughts and rationale behind the Indica - his response was amongst the lines that - that car was to make or break the company. Imagine trusting the engineers so much, to be able to put the entire companies efforts behind it.
We might be slow at releasing indigenous products- but we are far more mature in other fields, where the west cant even think about catching up.
Believe it or not- the BSE is far more mature than the NASDAQ/DJIA or even the LSE.
What they refer to most often is this image of india that they might have in their minds.
its kind of weird and sad that autoexpo has put this article on their site.
Most westeners have a definition of an automobile that drinks Gas. So, when the waltons or buffets drive vehicles that give a high gas mileage - the articles report them as "Thrifty billionaires" who drive "those high mileage cars"
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Old 5th January 2008, 12:59   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
I am not surprised. However much of this image has had a lot of contributions from people who were once (not very far away in the past) Indian in their origin. For many of them, we Indians are "they".
So true.
This trend is still on. This was the main reason for me to decide against staying is US.
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Old 6th January 2008, 17:55   #21
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On a related note, check this out from TIME magazine

"A group of U.S. Jaguar dealers said they opposed the possibility that Ford, Jaguar's owner, might sell the British luxury car brand to an Indian firm. Two of the three firms that Ford has shortlisted as potential purchasers are Indian: Mahindra & Mahindra and Tata Motors. The dealers said that the sale to an Indian company would hurt Jaguar's image. "I don't believe the U.S. public is ready for ownership out of India of a luxury car make," Ken Gorin, chairman of the Jaguar Business Operations Council, told the Wall Street Journal. "And I believe it would severely throw a tremendous cast of doubt over the viability of the brand"
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Old 7th January 2008, 05:04   #22
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Originally Posted by croonneck View Post
I still cant believe they've decided to put up that article on their site.
when you were mentioning about the 17 cars per 1000,how on earth can the author relate modernisation or industrialisation to number of cars per capita.

I think this a nice write up. It opens our eyes to what people are still thinking about India on the Global scene.I was particularly irritated reading the part where he says that India(and developing countries like ours)consider manufacturing cars as a ticket into the industrialised world

(a little off topic)quite a movies , when they depict scenes in India, they choose the worst possible locations with cows taking most of the roads,bullock-carts,people taking their animals in taxis and stuff like that.
Hence i think thats the impression a fair number of people have about India.(the Bloomberg author probably got his ideas from watching these kind of movies)

croonneck
This may be little bit off-topic, but I agree with croonneck. After sepnding more than seven years in US and Europe, I understand how people still think about Indians and India as a whole. So that article at bloomberg.com didn't surprise me. I saw the photo albums of many of friends in Europe and US after they traveled in India. Most of the time, their snaps on India , were about the shanties, polluting cars, dustbins by the side of the road, street dogs, bullocks sitting in the middle of the road etc. They said that these are things that intrigued them most. Some people asked why we do not adapt those street dogs. I am quite aware of the problems in our society. However, India is not equal to the sum of all these snaps. There are exceptions but there number is very few. The bottomline is that whenever you try to innovate something yourself and challenge the Western world, they will try to stop by harsh criticism(certainly tehere were more criticism from our domestic quarter). However, if you are passionate about your project and believe in it, just go ahead and do it. The ultimate judgment will be given by the people of India. So hats off to Ratan Tata. I am really proud to be an Indian.
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Old 7th January 2008, 10:28   #23
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Welcome to my world, as an American born but desi at heart I put up with this **** on a daily basis, it used to irritate me but not anymore. I used to put up (lengthy) arguements on arrogant remarks made about India by my collegues and others but I have given up on that and have decided to not bother. What I have to say hardly matters to most of these arrogant people, instead I am not letting it bother me anymore. Let them see with their own eyes. I am waiting impatiently for this TATA-Landrover/Jag deal to go through, regardless of my opinion that Jag is a bad buy - I just want to rub it in.

I understand that India has its share of problems, but what country doesn't!
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Old 8th January 2008, 09:34   #24
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Does this author of the bloomberg article know that for the same vehicles that run on the roads of EUROPE and US are sold in india for almost twice the price and there there are still indians buying them at this rate ? . I wonder how much of a hypocrite this person is .
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Old 8th January 2008, 14:38   #25
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i guess the world is used to the western, industrialized ways of thinking..

One recent example was when the Ambani's transformed the mobile industry with a simple dream of making communication as cost effective as a post card (the post card since then has become a lot more expensive than a call!), Vodofone chief - Sarin mentioned that the whole of the western telecom world is scratching their heads and wondering how the Indian's managed to do it?
- We have the cheapest call rates in the world, the ARPU (average revenue per user) are one of the lowest and with the volume being as large (due to population and subscriber base), how do the Indian telecom companies make substantially higher profit than their european or american counterparts. He went on to say that he should send his entire management team to India to figure out how the Indians have figured it out.

Ratan Tata in this case has dared to dream what the westerners have written off as impossible. Carlos Ghosn of Renault/Nissan has been following this and has decided to emulate it just as the Tata's, Mittal's etc did by following ambani's telecom vision.

The nobel prize winning rural micro-credit scheme came out of Bangladesh. Those who are still stuck in the industrial age mindset (such as the bloomberg author) have the ostrich head in the sand syndrome and cannot see reality. China/India's time is coming and the emerging markets will show the rest of the world how to do a good many things..
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Old 8th January 2008, 15:46   #26
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I think some people prefer to be willfully ignorant. What I resent is the imagery of India is always some Rajasthan scenery, slums, elephants, some equally sordid stuff from Varanasi, traffic from some undeveloped parts of Mumbai or India with Ambys and stuff. Those are all a part of India but there are other imagery too now that would be essential to give a balanced perspective of where India is going that we never see.

The people who do these shoots surely don't land straight in Rajastan or UP, they must be going through other pars of India, why do they intentionally omit these perspectives. Maybe it doesn't fit in with the image of the India they are trying to portray as a mystical and strange place which it is not.
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Old 8th January 2008, 17:35   #27
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There is nothing wrong with being strange and mystical. There is plenty wrong with trying to emulate the crass materialism of the West.

This is the land of the Buddha, Nagarjuna and Sankara. Be proud to be an Indian. The thought emulating from these 3 Indians may etch the high water mark of human endeavor to date. Many Westerners, Americans, still refers to you all as "sand niggers". These deep-seated beliefs of theirs are a little more pernicious than what they think of Indian autos. So let's not get too hung up on this car business, 'ay? Human ignorance runs deeper than this unfortunately.
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Old 8th January 2008, 18:05   #28
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DirtyDan, do you live in the same country as I do, which is among the most corrupt in the world. We really should not be talking about materialism of the west with the sort of mind boggling materialism, greed and corruption that goes on here. Ignorance and empty pride will not makes us a developed nation, some of us are doing well but we are minority, please look up the various UN human development indices to see where we are or take a train trip around India.

The human suffering around us is unbearable but we have got used to it. That's the challenge, giving a better life to more of our citizens, not spiritualism which is an individual prerogative.

'Crass materialism of the west' is an opinion not fact, clubbing people, communities and countries like that is not productive.
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Old 8th January 2008, 18:43   #29
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Quote:
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DirtyDan, do you live in the same country as I do, which is among the most corrupt in the world. We really should not be talking about materialism of the west with the sort of mind boggling materialism, greed and corruption that goes on here. Ignorance and empty pride will not makes us a developed nation, some of us are doing well but we are minority, please look up the various UN human development indices to see where we are or take a train trip around India.

The human suffering around us is unbearable but we have got used to it. That's the challenge, giving a better life to more of our citizens, not spiritualism which is an individual prerogative.

'Crass materialism of the west' is an opinion not fact, clubbing people, communities and countries like that is not productive.
It was not some starry eyed mystics that created India's problems. It was crass materialism of the genre of the West. Yes, I live in the same country you do. But I also lived in the United States for many, many years, I have citizenship there, and I think I know a little about those people.

Your concern for the suffering and stunted life of so many of your talented countrymen I find to be most noble, intelligent and sensitive, sir. I salute you.
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Old 8th January 2008, 19:12   #30
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Blaming other people is easy. Taking responsibility is the first step to a solution. Clouding the issue with terms like spirituality and morality are fine for those who have the freedom to contemplate these issues, most of us unfortunately don't and for those of us who do, to make a decision on behalf of others who do not have the means is arrogant to say the least. Physical sustenance has to come before other higher needs.

You have a PC and internet and make these posts, others no doubt have cars and other material possessions, that doesn't make people more or less spiritual. Human progress and modern civilization as we know it has been built on science and innovation, mostly starting with the renaissance in the 16th century. You can think of it in terms of western civilization which is essentially what modern civilization is, every single thing, from science, technology, medicine, governance but I would rather think of it as human progress. The alternative to to return to the cave and give up material progress.

I am touched by you fine words, spirituality, morality are personal things that affect individuals, not some thing to generalize over a population and certainly not something to flaunt. That defeats the purpose.
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