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Old 1st June 2010, 20:09   #1
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Post Speed Radar Guns & Cameras in New Delhi

If this news is to be believed, then we can see the speed of vehicles on Delhi Roads, under control during nights also from October 2010 onwards. Currently, drivers know that speed guns / interceptors are removed after sunset so they try to over speed.

But now, the Delhi Traffic Police is in a process of procuring night speed radar guns (Compact Modular Speed Measurement Device). Delhi Traffic Police has also issued a notice on "Global Expression of Interest" to invite the tenders from all across the globe. They will be choosing the speed guns among Radar based, Laser based and Infrared based devices. But it is expected to be inducted only after the Commonwealth Games in Delhi.


Source: http://www.delhiscoop.com/story/2010/5/31/233011/277

News Article:
Quote:
Soon, few cars would be seen speeding past city roads at night. The traffic police have come out with an expression of interest to procure night-speed radar guns, which will help catch motorists for speeding even after sunset. Officials said they were unable to decide on a technology for the equipment and have now called manufacturers to suggest options. The radar guns are expected to be inducted only after the Games.

The upgrade speed radar guns, which are popular abroad, can detect speeds of vehicles after dark and also take photographs as evidence. Unlike the radar guns being used by cops, the new ones are fitted with cameras with a strong flash which is effective even on very dark stretches. Cops had decided to procure the device last year but were unable to finalize a technology.

``Now, we have called an Expression of Interest for nightspeed radar guns. Manufacturers will approach us for technologies and then we will opt for the one best suited for use in Delhi,'' said Ajay Chadha, special commissioner of police (traffic).

The new devices are being brought in to make city roads safer at night when drivers tend to speed. The cops feel the new guns will act as a major deterrent as there will be a fear of getting prosecuted anytime.

The equipment currently used to prosecute for speeding is outdated. The traffic police have 11 mounted speed guns which are fixed on to interceptors or poles. These are attached to cameras which click photographs of violators. But none of the cameras are flash-enabled. There are another 100 portable speed guns, which only tell the speed of the vehicle they are pointed at. These are not fitted with cameras.

Even as speed guns may have come as a boon for enforcement agencies, there is a debate on the accuracy of the devices. In developed countries, it has been observed that speed guns do not always give accurate results, even as the traffic police vouch for their accuracy.

Last edited by Irish : 1st June 2010 at 20:18. Reason: added some more information
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Old 2nd April 2012, 00:41   #2
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Exclamation Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Hi,

Those who have been following Delhi Traffic Police's updates on Facebook would know that they're installing night-vision capable speed cameras everywhere.


Link to Photo of an overspeeding Polo

These cameras are supposed to work day and night and can take pictures of offending vehicles which are then challaned for breaking the speed limits. If you're more than 20 km/h over the limit, then you get booked for "Dangerous driving" which could imply a 6-month jail term.

My friend has seen some being installed on Ring Road towards west delhi and there was news of one being set-up on the airport road for trials.

Link to article

In 4 hours they recorded 600 cars breaking the speed "limit". If a law is so openly/frequently broken, why don't they think that maybe something is wrong with the law itself and not the people who break it?


With the speed limits already so unrealistically low, what is one supposed to do? My college commute is 25 km long and is mostly on highways with 50-60 km/h limits. Going at a top speed of 50 would mean it'll take an hour to get there.

What is your reaction to this move?
Do you guys think this would actually work?
Will they raise the speed limits?
Will the cameras hopefully get stolen? :P
What can we, as citizens and TBHP-ians do about this?
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Old 2nd April 2012, 10:10   #3
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

if i remember, speed limit is 50 in most parts of delhi, which, if followed religiously would end up in traffic jams. normally the cops keep a tolerance limit to the mentioned speed limit to impose fines.

example: speed limit just outside of Los Angles is 75 mph, but everyone drives at approx. 80-85 mph and if one is driving slower than that, s/he become a bottleneck for the flowing traffic, so even though speed cameras are there, one would not get a ticket for driving at 80-85 mph; however if one is at 90, a speeding ticket is likely.

in Delhi, are the speed limit boards posted at all the roads and are they clearly visible?

it is unlikely that these cameras would be stolen (but anything is possible in our country ); the hardware in these equipment is pretty expensive (Nikon D3S or equivalent).

another challenge is, how many people have the most updated address with RTO, and how many used car owners actually transfer the cars to their names.

Last edited by infotech58 : 2nd April 2012 at 10:17.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 10:20   #4
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Quote:
Originally Posted by itaughtthestig View Post
If a law is so openly/frequently broken, why don't they think that maybe something is wrong with the law itself and not the people who break it?
What kind of logic is that? Across the world, speed limits have to be enforced, no one keeps below the limit just because a board says so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itaughtthestig View Post
With the speed limits already so unrealistically low, what is one supposed to do? My college commute is 25 km long and is mostly on highways with 50-60 km/h limits. Going at a top speed of 50 would mean it'll take an hour to get there.
Leave home 15 minutes earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itaughtthestig View Post
What is your reaction to this move?
Do you guys think this would actually work?
Will they raise the speed limits?
DTP is already unofficially condoning driving at speeds upto but not exceeding 60 km/h, where 50 km/h is the notified speed limit. On the NH8 the limit is 80 km/h. You need a helicopter to go any faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itaughtthestig View Post
Will the cameras hopefully get stolen? :P
What can we, as citizens and TBHP-ians do about this?
Are you suggesting that citizens and T-BHPians actually help and support your thoughts & ideas about theft? Grow up and learn to respect the law, not find shortcuts to work around them. You obviously don't earn yet, but my taxes pay for those cameras, so you had BETTER NOT STEAL THEM!!!
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Old 2nd April 2012, 10:34   #5
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

The cops do tolerate shooting over the stated speed limit to some degree. Its a matter of figuring that limit (Sometimes asking helps). In Bangalore its usually ~5kms above the limit on the board, but please do not take my word for it as you might get a ticket.

Last Friday we were on the ORR and there was a speed gun van which caught the guy in front. I was doing 65 at that time, and thinking the signal was for me to stop i also stopped and later cop told me to carry on as my speed was ~62 (65 on speedometer).

Its better to be on the safe side of the law then to figure out ways and means to circumvent it.

PS: Just went through the Facebook page and was sad to see some comments being made against the move of Mr Satyendra Garg (Joint CP Traffic). A good effort and lets let the cops decide what should be the speed limit, and trust them that they would do it right.

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 2nd April 2012 at 10:42.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 10:45   #6
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

It is a Vento Highline with a blown headlamp and not a Polo.

It will take ages to successfully implement speed cameras across the country. Given our road conditions and traffic, speed cameras are useless IMO.

Last edited by DRIV3R : 2nd April 2012 at 10:48.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 10:50   #7
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
What kind of logic is that? Across the world, speed limits have to be enforced, no one keeps below the limit just because a board says so.
...
DTP is already unofficially condoning driving at speeds upto but not exceeding 60 km/h, where 50 km/h is the notified speed limit. On the NH8 the limit is 80 km/h. You need a helicopter to go any faster.
...
Are you suggesting that citizens and T-BHPians actually help and support your thoughts & ideas about theft? Grow up and learn to respect the law, not find shortcuts to work around them. You obviously don't earn yet, but my taxes pay for those cameras, so you had BETTER NOT STEAL THEM!!!

I certainly do not condone breaking the law, but I think there is a valid point to discuss about whether the speed limits currently posted on Delhi roads could not do with a revision upwards.

I dare say that the current limits are based on the state of road as they were many years ago. With current quality of many of the key roads, a speed limit of 70 kmph would be quite reasonable. Even on the Delhi-Gurgaon expressway, 90 is not too high.

There is a different problem however, that many of the users of these new roads do not really seem to have a clue how to drive at such speeds, in such cases, even 70 on the Gurgaon expressway is dangerous!

Maybe somewhat OT, but I can't understand why the govt/police does not make a real serious attempt to improve road sense. Or have they taken this as a lost cause? The road death statistics for India should be seen as a national shame for all of us!
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Old 2nd April 2012, 10:53   #8
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

There is no tolerance limit in Delhi. I have been challaned for doing 81kmph on DND when speed limit was 80. Considering, that most equipment has an error tolerance of +/-5%, this is actually official robbery.
I expect the limits to be brought down further after this move, as they need to recover the cost of cameras.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 11:14   #9
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Your proclivity to be a stickler for the law is commendable, but I have to disagree with parts of your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...no one keeps below the limit just because a board says so.
What??? Most people in most countries stay below the speed limit for EXACTLY that reason.... because a sign tells them to.

Like Fusion2006, I don't condone breaking the law either, but there is a strong case to be made for raising speed limits to something that is reasonable. You'll find that if you increase the speed limit to 70/80 from the prevalent 50, you'll find that there's a geometric drop off in the number of violators.

Consider that if a limit is 50, and I can comfortably cruise at say, 80-90 on an open road at night getting home because there's not much traffic. But, the moment I'm above 50kph I'm breaking the law, so in for a penny in for a pound, as they say.
On the other hand, if the speed limit was 75/80, there's no benefit in me breaking the law to go only 10kph faster than what's legally permissible. I'd rather stay within the legal limits and drive at the reasonable speed limit of 75kph. Obviously, there would be exceptions to this; school zones, hospital zones, roads that have no pavements for pedestrians, etc.

What bugs me the most about this initiative, however, is that once again the taxpaying middle class is being turned into a cash cow. There are much worse offenders on the road than the guy doing 99kph in his Vento. The cops themselves are sometimes rampant offenders, as are municipal bus drivers, auto-rickshaw drivers, cabbies, etc.
Why not catch them?
Why not catch the tempo that's sitting at the traffic light belching black smoke ten feet away from a cop who ignores the tempo only to hotfoot it to the other side of the road to catch a biker who stopped for thirty seconds in a no-parking zone to answer a phone call?

Look at the resentment that the middle class (and by this I mean individuals with private vehicles) has today. We pay some of the world's highest prices for fuel, we pay ridiculous road taxes and what do we get? No infrastructure whatsoever. It takes us over an hour to commute ten kilometers.

Speed cameras aren't the answer. Start lower by cleaning up encroachments so that the roads go back to their original width. Start by allowing construction of multi-level car parks instead of preventing them on some flimsy technicality. Start by having driving tests that actually TEST a prospective driver's knowledge of road rules.

Then you can get to speed cameras.

Last edited by ghostrider : 2nd April 2012 at 11:16.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 11:17   #10
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

OK, I do agree to this new campaign initiated by Delhi Traffic Police. But, what on earth does only a Max Speed limit imply.

You can't over 50kmph at best 70 on the Delhi Gurgaon Expressway which is my regular commute. Even if i go by this limit, it will take me atleast an hour to reach office daily, which is the time i am taking regularly when i drive at speeds of 70-90 on expressway.

The issue is with the bottlenecks which are created due to the stupidness and carelessness of Traffic Cops.

Anyone, who is aware of the Dabri Xing in West Delhi must be knowing that a flyover project has been on since the last 2 years if not less. Every day there is a colossal jam on that stretch, reason a bus stop where buses stop in parallel upto 3 lanes on a 4 lane road. Every day there is atleast a PCR Van standing there but they are busy munching cookies than manning traffic condition.

Cops are more proactive in issuing tickets to people than to manage traffic scenario. In Dwarka, a couple of traffic lights usually do not work. when there is a traffic cop manning those lights it usually takes 1-2 minutes to cross that crossing but when no one is there people themselves are intelligent not to create a deadlock and you go through easily.

First and foremost, the traffic cops should be taught how to manage traffic and then catch the violators and even the license issuing authorities should wake up from their slumber.

I know all this is just my agony and it doesn't govern or have an impact on the pathetic traffic sense prevailing in our country.!
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Old 2nd April 2012, 11:35   #11
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
What??? Most people in most countries stay below the speed limit for EXACTLY that reason.... because a sign tells them to.
Try the signs without the speed guns, see what happens!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
...80-90 on an open road at night getting home because there's not much traffic.
Now that makes a lot more sense - dual speed limits at different times of the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
Start by having driving tests that actually TEST a prospective driver's knowledge of road rules.
...and risk 90% of the Indian population losing their licence to drive?

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 2nd April 2012 at 11:36.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 11:52   #12
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Try the signs without the speed guns, see what happens!
I see your point, but it doesn't have to necessarily be that way. Once again, it comes back to a reasonable speed limit. 90% of the drivers on the road are only comfortable driving at double-digit speeds... it's a psychological thing. If the speed limit was 70/80 then most drivers wouldn't bother to break the law to go only incrementally faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Now that makes a lot more sense - dual speed limits at different times of the day.
Absolutely. If we have dual parking permission based on what time of day it is, how hard is it to follow the same principle for speed limits as well?

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...and risk 90% of the Indian population losing their licence to drive?
We can hope, can't we?
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Old 2nd April 2012, 13:07   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
There is no tolerance limit in Delhi. I have been challaned for doing 81kmph on DND when speed limit was 80. Considering, that most equipment has an error tolerance of +/-5%, this is actually official robbery.
I expect the limits to be brought down further after this move, as they need to recover the cost of cameras.
I would've fought that in court if I were you. There is no way you wouldn't have won.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 13:55   #14
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

This is just another pain now while travelling in Delhi. Speed limits of 50 kmph are fit only for the days when we used to ride on horses and not horse powers. I have no idea what will this do to the traffic. Whats the whole point of modern cars. People go on and on about the engines and handling etc on the forum. With speed limits of 50 on all roads its just a mundane discussion. 50 kmph is decent for the interior roads. But ring roads should have limits of atleast 70kmph. I travel mostly on the inner ring road and most of the stretches are relatively free. I cant see myself following 50 on these stretches. And I am being very blunt about it too. I am educated, I follow the rules but this is just stupidity at its best. If they continue with this then in a few weeks people would know the exact places where the cameras are installed and will slow down on that stretch alone. We do the same even now on places where we know the speed interceptors are.\

I am sorry to say Mr. Garg does not understand the reality. Speed limits need to be increased keeping in mind the modern infrastructure and cars.

Last edited by drmohitg : 2nd April 2012 at 13:57.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 14:21   #15
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Default Re: Speed Cameras in New Delhi

Here in Kolkata they have these speed cameras at some places but not all the time. They are not fixed speed cameras. Recently I know someone was fined for driving at 62 Kmph while the speed limit at that particular road was 60 Kmph.

This is ridiculous. There should be at least +10% grace especially considering equipment error.

Moreover police should use speed cameras to curtail unnecessary speeding and not use them as source of income. In other words the cameras should not be hidden and even if they are not openly visible, there should be sign boards indicating speed cameras nearby. This is exactly what happens in other countries.

This would also help in another way. There could be places where only the board would suffice. Cameras need not be installed at all leading to money saved. (Not sure if this happens in other countries though )

What should be the speed limit? That is an entire different discussion but is as important as the speed cameras themselves. Proper study and research is needed.
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