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Old 3rd April 2010, 17:47   #121
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EvilxKnievil,

You need to realise that you're running a 1.3 diesel. The power output you currently have is probably the maximum, in order to maintain a balance between performance + longetivity. Common-rails are high stress engines, with slimmer tolerances, to start with.

However, if you still want more performance:

1. Linea VGT turbo You're looking at 15 horses more. Not going to be an easy install, nor cheap, but since you asked.

WITH

2. A remap, specifically tuned to your requirements
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Old 4th April 2010, 02:11   #122
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... Another turbo mod !!! NOOOOOOOO !!!!

Anyways, thanks a lot for the response. Yes I know the limitations of the 1.3L engine, but dont wanna believe that there is nothing that can be done.

If a normally aspirated Lotus Elise can generate 190BHP or a Honda S2000 can produce 240HP, then why cant a diesel engine atleast hit 120BHP with the current turbo and some other means of mods than a bigger turbo ???

Is it a limitation of modding technology available for diesel CRDi engines or is it that normally aspirated petrol cars are way easier to power up than a turbo charged diesel ?
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Old 4th April 2010, 02:51   #123
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Quote:
Please share with us your experience with the box & cai..??

How much difference and where do you fell the difference between "Stock Vs. Box+CAI" ..??
Hi Rana_Kirti,

I am sorry I hadnt responded to your questions earlier. Since you are looking for a tuning box, I have some good news for you. The tuning box I use is the Italian Tuning Box.

On E-bay, I found this box for only 5500 Rs and 2750 Rs shipping to India. This box was not only cheaper, it has some extra advantages which came with later generation of tuning boxes as compared to Pete's.

It has a self learning mechanism of sorts. This control unit can give a driving performance so individual that it as though the original control unit software has been completely changed. Four to eight ignition maps are placed in the memory for the first time that then go into action according to your required driving performance. This means the optimal matching of all control parameters at every level of performance.
A further novelty is the ability of the systems to adapt to the individual characteristics of every vehicle.

So end result is that there is absolutely no black smoke from the exhaust even when using the map for maximum power. Pete's box is infamous for giving out lots of black smoke when max power map is used.

But a part of this would be due to the fact that I have a GCF+CAI ....


Anyways, as for the experience,

From what I have felt and heard from many swift fans, the 3rd gear in the car is "THE" gear to drive on. It has so much range and the entire range of the gear comes in the turbo powerband making it put a wide grin on yre face.
But with this box, I am happy to say, my grin and the range of that gear, both are increased.

Fact is that the top speed has increased by 7-9% after installing the box. Acceleration is outstanding. I had once test driven a Hyundai Getz CRDi ( 110Ps) car with Verna engine and it wheel spun when starting from 1st gear and then it wheel spun again when I shifted from 1st to 2nd gear and floored it. That was amazing for a diesel car and I always wanted that to happen on my Swift D. well, now it does.

The turbo lag has almost completely been taken out. The lower rpms are where the tuning box really comes in to play. The car as we all know is dead in the water until it hits 1800rpm or you have to downshift, but this issue has been almost eliminated. I felt that the range of the lower gears have also been increased for some reason. I dont believe that 96PS or 240Nm of torque is being delievered but the car definitely smokes the s*&t out of stock Swift D. There is a huge difference in the pull and it is almost as though the stock car is no match for mine.

The CAI+GCF has slightly altered the engine note. Its a bit like the old matador engine now. I can feel the purrrrrrrrr and it annoys me sometimes.
I am also looking for Endcans that dont make a lot of noise but helps increase performance to a good extent. I was looking for installing BOV for the Swift D as well. The BOV for diesel is controlled electrically ( again by the ECU ) since there is no throttle body and the fact that the throttle control is also done by ECU. There is no company wire cutting needed so no issues of warranty loss and I found quite a few BOVs for CRDi or Turbo Diesel on Ebay and elsewhere. It would be good to make heads turn at signals just by throttling the car and letting go.

Also I have recently found a new equipment that claims to increase performance for Turbo Diesel. Its called Sprinter. Wonder if anyone has already talked abt this but I didnt see it, so just posting it neverthless.

This item is connected to the throttle sensor or wire that goes into the ECU from your accelerator pedal and it apparently uses its own sets of algorithms and calculations to make a stock car completely eliminate turbo lag and also increase acceleration potential of the car. I wonder what it can do to a car which already has negligible or no lag in the first place.
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Old 4th April 2010, 10:13   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
How else would they claim ?
I don't know. I believe dyno sheets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
Well, do you have any substantial proof or evidence to support your claim ??? Coz if thats the case, then why do ppl call GC filter + CAI as a performance mod if stock filter itself is soooo much better ???
IAT sensor readings with stock airbox and with the costliest aftermarket air intake system you can get for the Swift Diesel (and the most common) showed the stock system having somewhere around a 20degC lower intake charge temp. That is a monumental difference. This is on a currently running car which had a lot of R&D tried for the intake system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
Well since diesel exhaust systems work a bit diff from gasoline ones, I am a bit ignorant about the mechanics of FFE in diesel, but from my limited knowledge, I presume a 3" or 4" diameter exhaust pipe coupled with a free flow endcan like the Remus should be able to discharge the exhaust gases from most modern turbo diesels without any obstruction thereby making it a FFE.
The diameter of pipe doesn't matter much once you hit 3". Even race prepped Honda Ks run 3" exhausts. You need to be extremely careful with the exhaust system or you ruin the whole thing. It's not just about discharging exhaust gases. It if was, a open pipe out of the turbo should yield the best performance, but it doesn't. Common rail exhausts are a black art. And I don't know any companies which make mass market systems for the 1.3 MJD (yet). You can get them custom built and shipped from abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
Also, removing the CAT is out of the question as that will make the car "Street Illegal" and I dont want that. But I am ready to change it if there are any free flow performance CAT available in the market that suit the Swift D ECU, which again I failed to find on WWW.
The current PUC testing systems are fine with a de-catcon-ed VDi with a lot more power than stock. Besides, you're already dumping carbon, NOx and SOx by running diesel in the first place, why the moral high horse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
I refuse to believe that Remus End cans are just fartcans, there should be a performance gain coz they claim it or it will just be a ricer mod !
Believe what you will, but in the end, just an end can IS a ricer mod. You can run a quiet end can with a full FFE and get better performance. Slapping on end cans aren't going to get you anything other than a MentalHP boost. Every mod company claims performance boosts. You've seen K&N advertising exact BHP gains for a variety of cars. And you can't quantify performance gains on something like an endcan which gets slapped onto any pipe which has the same diameter as the can's inlet. In a car's stock exhaust system, there are far more restrictions up the order before the end can comes into the picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
You have no idea !!! But since you seem confident, I could use your help in getting some links to sites which provide engine mods for Swift D apart from tuning box / turbo. Waiting ......
Go offline. You need to talk to the people in the know. There is already a thread on here somewhere about the fastest VDi I know about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
Dont piggy back systems act as an alternative for remap ??? So why is remap a better option than Tuning Box ??? Also since I had already mentioned that I do not wish to change my turbo, I was hoping someone would give me other ways to go faster. Wherever I checked, people always ask to upgrade turbo, but is there nothing else to go faster apart from bigger turbo ?
*sigh*

Tuning boxes are barely piggybacks. You don't program them (except for the modes they come with) and they are mass produced for a certain car. The difference between a remap and a tuning box is simple. A remap is specialized for the car its going into. You take into account the air induction, the capacity of the turbo, the intercooler, the exhaust system and so on/so forth. Why do certain cars equipped with tuning boxes belch smoke at times? It is injecting fuel for which there is no air supply to burn. You're essentially wasting fuel and clogging up the EGR while doing it. The downside of course is that a remap is costly. And it is one time. And you get that nagging feeling that all you got for your wads of cash is a bunch of software code in your ECU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
How about propane injection ???? You have any idea abt that ???Since LPG kits in India are not hard to find, an LPG induction kit should not be hard to make ..... is what I thought. What do you say ?
No idea about propane injection. A friend of mine is looking into adding one to another project car, but I don't think anything has progressed on that front yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
The CAI+GCF has slightly altered the engine note. Its a bit like the old matador engine now. I can feel the purrrrrrrrr and it annoys me sometimes.
I am also looking for Endcans that dont make a lot of noise but helps increase performance to a good extent. I was looking for installing BOV for the Swift D as well. The BOV for diesel is controlled electrically ( again by the ECU ) since there is no throttle body and the fact that the throttle control is also done by ECU. There is no company wire cutting needed so no issues of warranty loss and I found quite a few BOVs for CRDi or Turbo Diesel on Ebay and elsewhere. It would be good to make heads turn at signals just by throttling the car and letting go.
Diesels have no BOV at all. Be careful with eBay parts. Easiest way to lose money and/or blow up expensive stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilxKnievil View Post
Also I have recently found a new equipment that claims to increase performance for Turbo Diesel. Its called Sprinter. Wonder if anyone has already talked abt this but I didnt see it, so just posting it neverthless.

This item is connected to the throttle sensor or wire that goes into the ECU from your accelerator pedal and it apparently uses its own sets of algorithms and calculations to make a stock car completely eliminate turbo lag and also increase acceleration potential of the car. I wonder what it can do to a car which already has negligible or no lag in the first place.
http://peony888.com/VS/SprintBooster.pdf

It is an extremely simple circuit which I can make on a breadboard for 20 rupees worth of parts that you pay money through your nose for. What it does is modify the response of the throttle position sensor so that instead of having a linear throttle response, you get a lot of throttle change for very little pedal travel. In essence, you're changing the way the pedal behaves.

And as for the petrol vs diesel power comparison you posted, petrols rev a lot higher, so the BHP figures will be quite a bit higher than diesels. Besides, the 240BHP S2000 F2xC engine is one of the finest Honda ever made, with 2.2L of displacement and a stratospheric redline. You can't compare a purpose made roadster with a mass market low displacement turbo diesel.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 4th April 2010 at 10:28.
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Old 4th April 2010, 11:55   #125
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Hi EvilxKnievil,

Thanks for your detailed reply on your experience with the tuning box. I like the way you say your car behaves now and the advantages of this tuning box over others.

1. Did you have a direct comparison between your Tuning Box vs. Pete's Tuning Box ? I would be interested to know if you found any difference between the two ??

2. Also what is a GCF ? And which CAI are you using ?

3. Also there seems to be another product in the market called the Race Dynamics ECU. I wonder if anyone has done a comparison between the Petes VS. Race Dynamics ECU for the Vdi..?? Anyone tried both & willing to share there experience..??

I appreciate your researching on ways to make your Vdi faster without a Turbo Upgrade and i'm sure there are ways to do it & you shall eventually zero in on them.

Cheers.
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Old 4th April 2010, 12:34   #126
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Thumbs up Thanks ImmortalZ and Rana_Kirti

@ ImmortalZ,

Quote:
IAT sensor readings with stock airbox and with the costliest aftermarket air intake system you can get for the Swift Diesel (and the most common) showed the stock system having somewhere around a 20degC lower intake charge temp. That is a monumental difference. This is on a currently running car which had a lot of R&D tried for the intake system.
Where is this data from and who tested these ???

Quote:
The diameter of pipe doesn't matter much once you hit 3". Even race prepped Honda Ks run 3" exhausts. You need to be extremely careful with the exhaust system or you ruin the whole thing. It's not just about discharging exhaust gases. It if was, a open pipe out of the turbo should yield the best performance, but it doesn't. Common rail exhausts are a black art. And I don't know any companies which make mass market systems for the 1.3 MJD (yet). You can get them custom built and shipped from abroad.
I think the problem with that is the EGR in the turbo diesels that make it complicated. So does the VDi have a wastegate ?

Quote:
The current PUC testing systems are fine with a de-catcon-ed VDi with a lot more power than stock. Besides, you're already dumping carbon, NOx and SOx by running diesel in the first place, why the moral high horse?
I seriously didnt know that the CAT was an unncessary item for this car. If thats the case then why keep it ?? If I want to remove it, is it complicated ?? Will it give a better performance ??

Quote:
Believe what you will, but in the end, just an end can IS a ricer mod. You can run a quiet end can with a full FFE and get better performance. Slapping on end cans aren't going to get you anything other than a MentalHP boost. Every mod company claims performance boosts. You've seen K&N advertising exact BHP gains for a variety of cars. And you can't quantify performance gains on something like an endcan which gets slapped onto any pipe which has the same diameter as the can's inlet. In a car's stock exhaust system, there are far more restrictions up the order before the end can comes into the picture.
Why dont someone sue them all then ???

Quote:
*sigh*

Tuning boxes are barely piggybacks. You don't program them (except for the modes they come with) and they are mass produced for a certain car. The difference between a remap and a tuning box is simple. A remap is specialized for the car its going into. You take into account the air induction, the capacity of the turbo, the intercooler, the exhaust system and so on/so forth. Why do certain cars equipped with tuning boxes belch smoke at times? It is injecting fuel for which there is no air supply to burn. You're essentially wasting fuel and clogging up the EGR while doing it. The downside of course is that a remap is costly. And it is one time. And you get that nagging feeling that all you got for your wads of cash is a bunch of software code in your ECU.

But from what Ive found on the internet, modern tuning boxes have self learning capacity as they have memory which will let it adapt better with the car is on. Pete's is an older technology and it only gives wrong inputs to the ECU. Modern boxes take some controls from the ECU and do it themselves. There are boxes in the market which wont give out smoke even with max power map in use.....


Quote:
Diesels have no BOV at all. Be careful with eBay parts. Easiest way to lose money and/or blow up expensive stuff.

Hey, I had another thread about this here and I had posted a video of a Swift DDiS 1.3L with a functioning BOV. The link is here ---->http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ft-diesel.html (Blow Off Valve For Swift Diesel)


Quote:
It is an extremely simple circuit which I can make on a breadboard for 20 rupees worth of parts that you pay money through your nose for. What it does is modify the response of the throttle position sensor so that instead of having a linear throttle response, you get a lot of throttle change for very little pedal travel. In essence, you're changing the way the pedal behaves.

And as for the petrol vs diesel power comparison you posted, petrols rev a lot higher, so the BHP figures will be quite a bit higher than diesels. Besides, the 240BHP S2000 F2xC engine is one of the finest Honda ever made, with 2.2L of displacement and a stratospheric redline. You can't compare a purpose made roadster with a mass market low displacement turbo diesel.

So is the sprinter a good advisable mod ??? Can this circuit be homemade ??? I am not seeing any acceleration difference chart in that link before and after installling the sprintbooster ???
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Old 4th April 2010, 13:28   #127
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Quote:

1. Did you have a direct comparison between your Tuning Box vs. Pete's Tuning Box ? I would be interested to know if you found any difference between the two ??

2. Also what is a GCF ? And which CAI are you using ?

3. Also there seems to be another product in the market called the Race Dynamics ECU. I wonder if anyone has done a comparison between the Petes VS. Race Dynamics ECU for the Vdi..?? Anyone tried both & willing to share there experience..??

1. If the dyno charts as ImmortalZ said are to be believed, then pete's changes stock 75ps(190Nm) to 90ps(215Nm). It is still only an 70% power map. You can further increase it upto 94ps(230Nm) torque.

The box I have theoretically changes 75ps(190Nm) to 96ps(240Nm) torque and it is still at 80% power map and can be further increased upto 103ps(252Nm) torque.

But I have kept it there and driven and checked with help of a friend of mine who drove behind my car to check for any smoke coming from exhaust. Apparently there were none. It looked clear as in stock car.

I dont really think that much gain is acheived on the road, but the acceleration will be very satisfying after you have put it on. You will immediately say ... WHOA !!! Coz the boost from the turbo was available till about 5000 rpm. Normal stock car's boost dies out at 4500 rpm or so. So the speed gain is evident.

2. What I meant there was the Green Filter and the dynamisation kit. The kit is basically a silicon hose which can be expanded or contracted based on requirement and it goes into the back of the engine and under it and takes in clean cold air from the bottom of the car straight to the filter.

3. The RD ECU is a more advanced cutting edge technology. But it still costs 22K as compared and it is basically increasing the fuel pressure at the injection default interval as compared to tuning boxes which increase the time for which the fuel is pumped in. But the italian box support guy told me that my box can and will work even if the onboard ECU on my car is remapped. That was surprising considering the fact that tuning boxes wont work alongside ECU remaps. Now I know for a fact the RD ECU can work with remapped ECU. So that sounded interesting. But I kind of like to question that myself !!!!!
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Old 4th April 2010, 19:04   #128
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Guys I have a doubt . And sorry for being on the wrong thread . I have a 2 day old swift diesel vdi.
Just had a few questions.
1) is the car run in ? or is there some amount of safe driving needed before the first service , if so what type of driving should be there ?
2) Does the mileage of the car increase after the first service ?
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Old 5th April 2010, 17:39   #129
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Originally Posted by arjunrudra View Post
1) is the car run in ? or is there some amount of safe driving needed before the first service , if so what type of driving should be there ?
There is nothing mentioned in the "owners manual". However I personally keep the revs low before the first service and build it up slowly after that.

Anyway swift-d hits 80km/hr @ 2000 rpm in 5th so ain't gonna be that difficult.

Quote:
2) Does the mileage of the car increase after the first service ?
Yup it sure does. In my dad's car it improved substantially after 3rd service.
After 1st and 2nd the increase was marginal, however it will be around 15'ish so...
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Old 5th April 2010, 20:31   #130
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Originally Posted by yzfrj View Post
There is nothing mentioned in the "owners manual". However I personally keep the revs low before the first service and build it up slowly after that.

Anyway swift-d hits 80km/hr @ 2000 rpm in 5th so ain't gonna be that difficult.



Yup it sure does. In my dad's car it improved substantially after 3rd service.
After 1st and 2nd the increase was marginal, however it will be around 15'ish so...
Thanks a lot . I posted this as the needles were actually dipping quite fast as compared to my friends 1 yr old swift.
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Old 9th April 2010, 18:24   #131
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Question Hello

Hi BHPians,

Could anyone suggest me a few websites that list diesel injector nozzles for DDiS Swift ???

Would the PP520s or higher type TDI injector nozzle be compatible with the DDiS ????

Also request to suggest sites which sell sprinters (sprint boosters) for Suzuki DDiS ???

And is at any good to reduce smoke and/or increase torque if the EGR is removed/replaced with an aftermarket part?? If so, could anyone suggest a site which sells the same ??? Is having the CAT bypassed while EGR is removed going to cause any issues ????
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