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Old 18th October 2014, 11:23   #2971
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Went for a short ride on a hunch about tire pressure , front is 25 ( it was 25 on day of delivery too ) . Rear however down to 23 , I recall it being certainly above 28 , likely around 30 . Is such drop in pressure normal within 130km ? And more importantly did it figure in the stoppie incident ? My knowledge tells me that is

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Old 18th October 2014, 11:29   #2972
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Continuing with my earlier post, I did encounter stalling before fully heated engine level, in my fathers bullet 350 electra and by friends classic 500. And in my honda activa.

But in bullets, as I asserted earlier it's because of poor design and quality control.

I give my honda activa, which is a 2004 model, at local workshops. They have a habit of tuning the idle rpm to the lowest possible level. They claim that it increases the mileage of the scooter. These day's I insist that they put the idle rpm a little higher and the stalling problem has not happened since.
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Old 18th October 2014, 12:51   #2973
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus View Post
unfortunately yes. I didn't say all of the stalls are because of this, but I said common, there are a lot of folks who stall in this way.
Let me clarify.

I just do not see how you can make a blanket statement like that. Enveloping a huge swathe of 390 riders across the country. Who you have never met. Never ridden with. Never seen.

Your post did come across as a bit judgmental, maybe even condescending? As if a majority of 390 riders (experiencing these sudden switchoffs - not stalls - yours truly included) don't really know how to ride. Or that the 390 is some high strung exotic which many of us have probably not gotten the hang of riding yet.

In my personal experience, most 390 riders ride pretty well. As do most 200 riders. Its a combination of the bikes improving the riders as well as the type of riders who gravitate to these bikes. Regardless of age or experience profiles I would like to add. And if anything, the 390 is a LOT less high strung than the rompy 200.

Its a fueling issue plain and simple. Unfortunately, as has been seen in the past even with the 200, when Bajaj proceeds to "rectify" such issues, it does so at the cost of the personality of the bike. Frankly to the point where riders like me at least would insist on accepting the original flaws than the compromised workaround.

Quote:
Clarified by all the discussion that has happened so far. The low sidewalls of the metzelers are the reason.
It was one of the theories doing the rounds. I must have missed the part where a unanimous consensus was reached.

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That's because the Duke200 doesn't come with the low sidewall metzelers.
The Duke 200 tyres have the exact same specs of those on the Duke 390. This too was discussed. Its not the rubber compound (soft or hard-er) that gives rigidity or flex to a radial side wall. Its the inner steel carcass.

Unless you're saying that the carcass of the Metzelers is inferior to that of the MRFs .....

Last edited by ebonho : 18th October 2014 at 13:06.
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Old 18th October 2014, 13:06   #2974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basuroy View Post

And please do educate me on how a lock up looks like
The ABS kicks in when you break hard on loose/wet tarmac and the 'wheels lock' causing the bike to skid. ABS prevents the skid. In your case the bike stopped properly but because of the momentum the rear wheel came up. There was no 'locking of the wheels' and the bike did not skid. The ABS did not have any work in this case and hence it did not intervene.
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Old 18th October 2014, 13:09   #2975
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Basu bro, you should be feeling chuffed right now. Not concerned, or angry.

Honestly, I have never been able to do a stoppie on the 390. I am just too chicken for that.

Btw, congrats on the new bike! And nice shoes.

Last edited by ebonho : 18th October 2014 at 13:10.
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Old 18th October 2014, 18:11   #2976
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
I return and then notice the bike has coughed out a spoonful coolant from the coolant cap , this is normal I assume ? the coolant level was about 5mm below maximum level after a 20km ride that included 2 20/30seconds burst of quick acceleration up to 100kmph . Coolant level when cold is slightly above the mid point between MAX/MIN markings .
I don't think there should be coolant leakage, whatever the situation may be (except a crash of course). Might sound stupid, but the coolant cap is tightly secured right? Coolant leakage has been a hallmark of some Bajaj and many KTM bikes, but not from the cap area.
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Old 18th October 2014, 18:57   #2977
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

A thousand times agree with the doc. Basu - you should be celebrating dude. Your first stoppie / endo. I have been practicing for a week now n nada. Wheelie took like a couple of days but stoppies just ain't happening

And abs has nothing to do with endos. You don't lock your front wheel whilst performing stoppies. You get the front end to compress and at a precise point add just that much more brake. The front end cannot compress anymore and because of all the weight transfer the rear lifts up, making it a great opportunity for a photo op

Check out videos by a guy named nick brocha on YouTube. He explains and demonstrates it beautifully.

One comment that leaves me baffled though dude is why you went back checking for gravel or whatever else. From what you've explained, you didn't lose traction. You think gravel or cow shit helps performing endos? Do tell

Last edited by Urban_Nomad : 18th October 2014 at 19:00.
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Old 18th October 2014, 19:38   #2978
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan View Post
I never run any vehicle without idling for atleast 1 min. And I don't believe in fast warm up, by slow driving. But even after the first bar pops up, the bike stalls untill atleast 5 bars are displayed in the temp guage. The technician at KTM pointed towards a faulty decomp valve, which will be tested along with a host of other parts suggested by VW2010, Man Of Steel, during the first service.

And again sorry for choosing the wrong word. What I meant by a lot is, by a sample size
it's perfectly fine, no worries/apologies

So, help me understand this. You say no stall when heat is 5+bars but stall when heat is 1-5bars. So, is it the heat or is it the decomp valve? If it is the valve, I would like to understand how it behaves differently with regards to temperature since 5+ bars is all good for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
And please do educate me on how a lock up looks like because the way I understand , when the front wheel locks , the rear lifts off the ground which is exactly what happened , of course I am not a half wit to not realize ABS acted within split second to release the wheel but it should have never locked in the first place because imagine that in traffic or inferior roads as is the case here . Many outside factors were heavily in favor of traction and safety like good road and no traffic at all .

EDIT : you reckon during braking entire/significant weight of even pillion transfers to front ? hmm that is interesting and never thought of it that way but are you dead sure ? he did slam into me hard resulting in some discomfort to my nether areas :/
Firstly, when the front wheel locks, 2 things can happen.
1.> you skid aka..schreech sound
2.> You do a full 180 stoppie i.e you lie face planted on the ground because your wheel has locked before your forward momentum was arrested

Any weight that is center and forward of the rear axle will have zero weight effect on the rear tyre under sudden braking as the entire momentum is shifted to the forward ground touch point which is your front wheel. When you brake, the bike is braking but the person sitting on the bike is still moving forward, it is only by the connection through your hands and knees grabbing the bike that your momentum decreases the same as the bike. It is a totally different story for the pillion with quite literally next to nothing touch points with the bike. When you brake suddenly, the person sitting at the rear keeps moving forward while the bike slows down, resulting in the passenger doing some air time between their behind and rear seat and the only thing that is stopping the passenger from moving forward with the same momentum they were is you the rider and what happens then, well you have experienced The point is, unless you have weight to the center and backward of the rear axle, it will literally be of no use to rear grip or holding the rear down under sudden braking.

If your front wheel had really locked before stopping the bike what would have happened is your bike would have continued traveling forward and rotated around the front axle all the way till the rear seat hit the ground to stop the momentum. Technically yes, the wheel stopped at the last second, but it stopped rotating only at the point where no more of the bike will move forward. This is how a brake is supposed to ideally function. The brake should never have more friction than the point where the tyre is touching the road. The moment the braking friction is more than the tyre grip, that is when lock up/skid happens. Hope you are getting what I am trying to say.

The only way ABS fails is if it completely locks your wheel where you start skidding aka loose traction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Let me clarify.

I just do not see how you can make a blanket statement like that. Enveloping a huge swathe of 390 riders across the country. Who you have never met. Never ridden with. Never seen.

Your post did come across as a bit judgmental, maybe even condescending? As if a majority of 390 riders (experiencing these sudden switchoffs - not stalls - yours truly included) don't really know how to ride. Or that the 390 is some high strung exotic which many of us have probably not gotten the hang of riding yet.
Firstly, I apologize if it seemed that way. But reading back, again, I did not make a blanket statement. I just said that one of the common reasons is that which is true from the folks I have seen so far. For the rest, ofcourse what you say holds true, I did not dispute that part. All I said was for some, this is a common point causing it.

If I may give an example, the intial problem of "warm start" turned out to be a bogus or isolated issue at the least(dont kill me now) because many folks were throttling while thumping the starter which is a no-no for the 390. Couple of bikes I have personally seen complaining about the warm start issue, I just held the starter for a couple of seconds longer without throttling and voila. My point is there is a lot of learning curve for us with the 390 and not all issues that present itself are what they seem.

Needless to say neither am I doubting all the skilled riders that own 390s, that would be preposterous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
It was one of the theories doing the rounds. I must have missed the part where a unanimous consensus was reached.

The Duke 200 tyres have the exact same specs of those on the Duke 390. This too was discussed. Its not the rubber compound (soft or hard-er) that gives rigidity or flex to a radial side wall. Its the inner steel carcass.

Unless you're saying that the carcass of the Metzelers is inferior to that of the MRFs .....
Yes, yes, a lot of theories going around. But apparently no one has taken enough time/money to prove the alloys are bad by trying those same alloys on the 200 or trying the 200 alloys on the 390 and running through the same alloy breaking potholes.
Till such time your theory is as good as mine because on paper all calculations and in-depth study might make sense but the practical world might be different.

Having said that, do we know yet if there was any alloy breakage with the person who did Leh with those large sidewall Ceat tyres?
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Old 18th October 2014, 21:46   #2979
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

@cyrus.

The stalling is a real issue. Its not just user issue. You are one of those like me who didnt have the issue. But stalling of the bike is not just an issue noted by users in India but across.

The alloy cracking is pronounced in India, thanks to the wonderful roads.

Even a change in petrol bunk has caused these stalling issues and i had loss of power after 8krpm only to realise the fuel filter was not effective. Change of fuel filter helped resolve.,

The cold start and stalling is a genuine issue and could be due to various reasons associated with fuel reaching the engine cylinder.
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Old 18th October 2014, 22:10   #2980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus View Post
it's perfectly fine, no worries/apologies

So, help me understand this. You say no stall when heat is 5+bars but stall when heat is 1-5bars. So, is it the heat or is it the decomp valve? If it is the valve, I would like to understand how it behaves differently with regards to temperature since 5+ bars is all good for you.
Even I don't understand why he pointed towards the decomp valve. He mentioned something about the decomp valve getting sensitive to temperature.

Anyways I don't care. If he thinks it is decomp valve, then I will make him replace it. And if and when the problem crops up again, he will have to point towards something else. And the cycle will be repeated till the problem is solved.
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Old 20th October 2014, 17:56   #2981
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Battery terminals are a known point of failure in 390s. They just snap off. Check those too. The Activa terminals are better quality replacements.
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Old 20th October 2014, 18:58   #2982
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Thumbs up Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Hello Fellow Riders, I just booked my Orange wheels and hope to get it by next week. I have a few queries that the existing owners might be able to help me with:
1. I have gone through the threads and am familiar with the running in, what I am looking for is how much I can bend the rules while remaining within the safety zone ( 6000 rpm perhaps? )
2. I have no complaints with the standard tyres, but, I am looking for an alternate set that can handle gravel (a bit more nobby and a bit more height)

Thanks.
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Old 20th October 2014, 21:13   #2983
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

@gharika,

Your first question has variety of answers and every answer is right on its own terms.

To me i rode my first 6500kms like i would ride a bike after 6500kms . The science of things says riding at probably 10K RPM for an extended period of time can have some impact.

10K is a cut off in this bike. In reality you should be able to push it beyond that with no major change in power though.

Secondly at 10K in different gears this bike does insane speed which means, there is no possible way in any road in india you riding the bike at 10K Consistantly.

May be if you decide to ride it in first gear the who day at different speeds.

In normal riding condition there is no way you will push that engine to its stress point that you shouldnt be worried.

Just have fun with the bike and ride it like you should and thats what i did. I have seen the red light indicator begging for change of gears in the first few days because the indicator cut off is set slightly early. I could care less when i knew the rpm was hardly 8k and the engine treats this like soft rpm to me.

You will find exactly opposite reason to keep within recommended RPM. Its your choice.

I ride a bullet for no 10 years and more and i rode my bull at high rpm on day 1. Its still on stock piston and barrel and i have two P&B just in case it fails for the last 5 years.

My reasoning for the rules is to give you time to get used to the bike acceleration, braking and what not.

The first 1000kms as suggested by dealer, if you ride it, you will learn a lot more about the bike which will help you push over the suggested limit after those 1000kms with confidence.
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Old 21st October 2014, 00:49   #2984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anilp View Post
Battery terminals are a known point of failure in 390s. They just snap off. Check those too. The Activa terminals are better quality replacements.
Will sure check the battery points too. Meanwhile I have found a temporary solution for the stalling problem, before the engine is fully heated up.

What I do is, I blip the throttle, varying the rpm between 2000 and 5000 rpm in half second pulses, when the bike comes to a halt. This has two effects. The bike never stalls. And the engine gets heated up very quickly. Of course I start moving the bike only after idling for a minute.

After 5 min ride like this, the engine temp rises beyond the half way mark. Then I ride it normally.
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Old 21st October 2014, 02:58   #2985
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

I used to simply idle after starting in the morning till the radiator fan kicks in. Post that its always been smooth. I did have over heating scenario and the engine cutting off.

Those where the only times the engine stalled for me. But i usually use that as a break time to relax.

Never once the engine over heated in long rides. Its the city ride where i have had over heating stops due to traffic. Thanks to Chennai Metro.
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