Hertz Dieci Speakers

gunbir · 17th September 2005, 04:36

Post edited : Please do not post your wares on this board

navin · 17th September 2005, 10:15

hey gunbir, dont take what i am gonna say with too much importance. I am rarely satisfied.

Love some of the features what i would love to see....

1. making the NdFeB magnet the shape of the phase plug or house the magnet inside a phase plug. This is if your woofer magnet is NDFeB. Tweeter NDfeB magnets are so small that they fit inside the voice coil. Also I would prefer a textile dome tweeter. mylar has some breakup modes that have to be filtered.

2. offering tweeters with and WITHOUT ferrofluid damping. While Ferrofluid does enhance the power handling of the tweeter (and damping the impedance peak of the voice coil) it does rob the HF of some of the "MICRO-DYNAMICS". When I was in Videbaek we did some tests comparig the effects of ferro fluid and found that a tweeter can be desinged without ferro fluid and still haivng suffciently high power handling etca lot of this unfortunately is protected by an Non Disclosure Agreement.

pranil · 17th September 2005, 10:17

Hy Gunbir,.

Why are there two crossovers. One hpf and other LPF??

navin · 17th September 2005, 10:26

yeah it says so on the XO? now both XOs could be in one box but hvagin 2 XOs allows one to tuck them away in corners. there is one more advatage to this but i dont think Hertz has thought of it...gunbir/JB can you guess?

Autophile · 17th September 2005, 11:59

BI-AMPING if you can afford to

navin · 17th September 2005, 12:05

Bi amping? Bimaping is putting an XO before the amp not after! these are passive XOs. also an amps input impedance is 10Kohms while a speaker's impedance is 4 ohms so the same XO wont work.

nope one reason i do this is to prevent the inductors from affecting each other. you see the 6db woofer crossover likely has a large inductor. the 12db tweeter XO also has an inductor. with 2 inductors close to each other one will "feed" the other.

navin · 17th September 2005, 12:08

BTW gunbir, I would put this post in Marketplace as there it will be noticed by people who are in the market for stuff.

navin · 17th September 2005, 12:24

basic article on XOs http://www.termpro.com/articles/xover2.html
and a discussion of the above mentioned phenomenon http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=6005

as you can see putting inductors 3" apart and right angles to each other is diffcult in a car XO.

some people call it crosstalk but i find that if you model it mathematically it is different from traditional crosstalk.

Autophile · 17th September 2005, 12:27

Navin you mean to say active systems....yes you do that...but even in passive systems you do bi-amp the speakers...How do you do that in home audio??? In home audio lot of people biamp the speakers using two power amplifers.

You are right about the inductors cross talks. But it will be noticable in poorly designed crossover with bad quality components sharing a common PCB and running off a very powerful amp.

You will hardly notice that in speakers running off a Head Unit 22 watts or a Sony amp. For what the Diechi speakers are actually meant for.

navin · 17th September 2005, 12:36

dude we got some communication breakdown happening.

what i meant was the above pictured XOs cannot be used for Biamping. see post 4, 5 and 6.

gunbir · 17th September 2005, 12:44

Navin Sir, just for the sake of this discussion, you can Bi-Amp these speakers. You could have one amp powering the tweeter through the HF XO and another powering the mid through the LF XO. Thats Bi-Amping...

navin · 17th September 2005, 12:47

that is biamping but not efficient. the poor tweter amp has to deal with the whole freq. range when it really only need to deal with about 10-15% of the energy spectrum.

gunbir · 17th September 2005, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

that is biamping but not efficient. the poor tweter amp has to deal with the whole freq. range when it really only need to deal with about 10-15% of the energy spectrum.

Yes, I agree passive bi-amping is not efficient. I also think its a waste of the additional amp. Like I said, just for the sake of discussion...

Sam Kapasi · 17th September 2005, 12:52

Also, the reason we use a passive crossover is mostly because a single channel carries both the lows and highs and need to be seperated from that singular channel.

If i had a seperate amp to run my tweeters and another to run my mids... then why would I need a passive crossover for my tweeter? I like as few components between my speakers and my amps and as little wire as possible!

I can use the HPFs on my amp!

navin · 17th September 2005, 12:56

yup. use the HPFs (if they go high enough) and loose the XO that is what i do.

17th September 2005, 04:36	#1
gunbir Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,465 Thanked: 33 Times	Hertz Dieci Speakers Post edited : Please do not post your wares on this board Last edited by gunbir : 17th September 2005 at 04:41.
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 10:15	#2
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,514 Times	hey gunbir, dont take what i am gonna say with too much importance. I am rarely satisfied. Love some of the features what i would love to see.... 1. making the NdFeB magnet the shape of the phase plug or house the magnet inside a phase plug. This is if your woofer magnet is NDFeB. Tweeter NDfeB magnets are so small that they fit inside the voice coil. Also I would prefer a textile dome tweeter. mylar has some breakup modes that have to be filtered. 2. offering tweeters with and WITHOUT ferrofluid damping. While Ferrofluid does enhance the power handling of the tweeter (and damping the impedance peak of the voice coil) it does rob the HF of some of the "MICRO-DYNAMICS". When I was in Videbaek we did some tests comparig the effects of ferro fluid and found that a tweeter can be desinged without ferro fluid and still haivng suffciently high power handling etca lot of this unfortunately is protected by an Non Disclosure Agreement. Last edited by navin : 17th September 2005 at 10:16.
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 10:17	#3
pranil BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 153 Thanked: 2 Times	Two crossovers Hy Gunbir,. Why are there two crossovers. One hpf and other LPF??
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 10:26	#4
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,514 Times	yeah it says so on the XO? now both XOs could be in one box but hvagin 2 XOs allows one to tuck them away in corners. there is one more advatage to this but i dont think Hertz has thought of it...gunbir/JB can you guess?
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 11:59	#5
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	BI-AMPING if you can afford to
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:05	#6
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,514 Times	Bi amping? Bimaping is putting an XO before the amp not after! these are passive XOs. also an amps input impedance is 10Kohms while a speaker's impedance is 4 ohms so the same XO wont work. nope one reason i do this is to prevent the inductors from affecting each other. you see the 6db woofer crossover likely has a large inductor. the 12db tweeter XO also has an inductor. with 2 inductors close to each other one will "feed" the other. Last edited by navin : 17th September 2005 at 12:09.
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:08	#7
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,514 Times	BTW gunbir, I would put this post in Marketplace as there it will be noticed by people who are in the market for stuff.
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:24	#8
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,514 Times	basic article on XOs http://www.termpro.com/articles/xover2.html and a discussion of the above mentioned phenomenon http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=6005 as you can see putting inductors 3" apart and right angles to each other is diffcult in a car XO. some people call it crosstalk but i find that if you model it mathematically it is different from traditional crosstalk. Last edited by navin : 17th September 2005 at 12:25.
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:27	#9
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	Navin you mean to say active systems....yes you do that...but even in passive systems you do bi-amp the speakers...How do you do that in home audio??? In home audio lot of people biamp the speakers using two power amplifers. You are right about the inductors cross talks. But it will be noticable in poorly designed crossover with bad quality components sharing a common PCB and running off a very powerful amp. You will hardly notice that in speakers running off a Head Unit 22 watts or a Sony amp. For what the Diechi speakers are actually meant for.
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:36	#10
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,514 Times	dude we got some communication breakdown happening. what i meant was the above pictured XOs cannot be used for Biamping. see post 4, 5 and 6.
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:44	#11
gunbir Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,465 Thanked: 33 Times	Navin Sir, just for the sake of this discussion, you can Bi-Amp these speakers. You could have one amp powering the tweeter through the HF XO and another powering the mid through the LF XO. Thats Bi-Amping...
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:47	#12
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,514 Times	that is biamping but not efficient. the poor tweter amp has to deal with the whole freq. range when it really only need to deal with about 10-15% of the energy spectrum.
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:52	#14
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 7,000 Thanked: 2,451 Times View My Garage	Also, the reason we use a passive crossover is mostly because a single channel carries both the lows and highs and need to be seperated from that singular channel. If i had a seperate amp to run my tweeters and another to run my mids... then why would I need a passive crossover for my tweeter? I like as few components between my speakers and my amps and as little wire as possible! I can use the HPFs on my amp!
	() Thanks

17th September 2005, 12:56	#15
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,514 Times	yup. use the HPFs (if they go high enough) and loose the XO that is what i do.
	() Thanks