[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Sir, I actually wanted to know the story behind "Kate hue haath" at Chumur

Apparently, there used to be an evil witch at Chumur, who killed young men(lots of variations of this folklore). Finally a Lama killed her and cut her hands with which she did evil magic. you can see the mummified hands at Chumur. quite a ghastly site, Harsh will post the pictures soon

[vardhan.harsh]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Could you please explain the significance of this conversation for the benefit of all here

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Chumur is a border outpost, and recently, that area has seen hanky panky by the chinese.
Now, foreign nationals cannot go there, its strictly off limits, but on asking you could get permits for chumur without much difficulty.
I got a permit in 2009 without much trouble.
However, this time things were different. A lot of staff at DC office was pretty new. 99% of permits say Nubra, Pangong, Tso moriri. Thats about it.
So to see a permit with a long list like
Chushul, Hanle, Chumur. Tsaga, Man Merak.... etc., etc., was a big shock.
So the guy there tried to dissuade me from getting chumur permit. I insisted and kept on bugging him. Finally he relented, and gave me chumur permit.
Around that time, there were many other people in leh, getting permits for the chushul area as well as chumur.
Therefore, by the time harsh went, he must have softened a bit.
But still, those guys must be wondering why on earth anybody would want to go to Chumur!
Hence this conversation.
I guess, after these new guys spend a year or so in DC office, and encounter lot of people asking for permits to all sorts of weird places, they will soften.

Incidently, this time on the Chushul Loma section, there was a lot more "vigilance". We were stopped twice and our permits thoroughly checked. Once ITBP officer did double round of checking after I asked him "Can we see china from here ".

So moral of the story - Try hard, you will get all the permits. And when you are traveling, just show your permits, answer their questions, and do not ask silly questions!

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Sir, I actually wanted to know the story behind "Kate hue haath" at Chumur

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Apparently, there used to be an evil witch at Chumur, who killed young men(lots of variations of this folklore). Finally a Lama killed her and cut her hands with which she did evil magic. you can see the mummified hands at Chumur. quite a ghastly site, Harsh will post the pictures soon

Well most of the questions have been correctly answered by Tanveer (tsk1979). To add to that:

Well the conversation was quite funny, but i guess one has to be there to fee the humour in the conversation as it was happening. Plus another significance of the conversation is that one has to "know" why one is going to that place before asking for the permits.

For e.g. for a place like chushul one could mention the war memorial and mention the history behind it, for Hanle it could obviously be the observatory and a place like Chumur : "the cut-up-hands" .

There are two sets of hands over there, one is of the witch that Tanveer mentioned, the other one belongs to the witch's son which is also there, mummified and preserved.

And yes i went to the DC's office a week after Tanveer so the guy must've softened and i did not have to push him too much for the permit. Although i was ill-informed and was asking permits for Dungti as well, which really irritated him a lot. For the uninitiated and as per my understanding: DC office does not have the authority to give permits for places like Dungti, Fukche & Koyoul. One has to obtain the permits either from the army or someone else. I am not too sure about that either.

Any yay! i've been converted from Newbie to BHPian. so no more mod queue for me

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by vardhan.harsh

: DC office does not have the authority to give permits for places like Dungti, Fukche & Koyoul. One has to obtain the permits either from the army or someone else. I am not too sure about that either.

Any yay! i've been converted from Newbie to BHPian. so no more mod queue for me

LOL, DC office is quite a maze and it actually depends on the person issuing permits. For example, I was not given any flak for dungti.
The person had objection for Wari La and Chumur. Chumur is understandable, but Wari La is nowhere near any sensitive area!
Dungti is actually the last major village before Koyul. So you can go till Dungti, and get scolded by the ITBP there(which I believe happened to you).
If you actually want to go to places like Chushul Airfield, Fukche, and the other border positions near Hanle, I would guess that influence with the ITBP would be of great help.

[vardhan.harsh]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

LOL, DC office is quite a maze and it actually depends on the person issuing permits. For example, I was not given any flak for dungti.
The person had objection for Wari La and Chumur. Chumur is understandable, but Wari La is nowhere near any sensitive area!
Dungti is actually the last major village before Koyul. So you can go till Dungti, and get scolded by the ITBP there(which I believe happened to you).
If you actually want to go to places like Chushul Airfield, Fukche, and the other border positions near Hanle, I would guess that influence with the ITBP would be of great help.

Yes, i found it weird too (while reading your TLog) that they had issues giving permits for Wari La, it does not make any sense. In fact i was under the impression that one would not require an explicit permission for Wari La.

And you are correct we were scolded when we reached Dungti. Actually while coming back from Hanle we took the first right before the bridge, assuming that it would go towards Chushul, and since there were no check-posts after that we happily reached Dungti, only to be scolded by the ITBP guys there.

Once we reached back to Loma, the ITBP OiC there was quite peeved by the news that we were coming back from Dungti and scolded us again. It was also because, we did the Tso Moriri-Chumur-Hanle stretch without having our permits checked even once!.

I was wondering if Dungti was so "off limits". There should've been a barrier while one takes a right coming back from Hanle (or a left while going towards Hanle after Loma and crossing the bridge).

A couple of bikers, 2 days before we reached there, had been warned by the OiCnot to go towards Dungti, when they were stopped at Loma post. However, they neglected the advise and went there nevertheless. The OiC was quite upset about that and thus did not want us to proceed towards Chushul either,as he was fed up with "tourists". It was only after spending a couple of hours were we able to convince him to let us go.

Anyways more on that later.

[tsk1979]

I guess thats why its better to do the circuit from chushul side.
When we reached Loma, we had tea and snacks, and also shared the snacks we were carrying with the ITBP personnel there. Now, when you come from Chushul side, they won't turn you back, because chushul is the sensitive zone, loma to hanle main road is actually very much away from the border.
As for Dungti, I guess they need to put signboards saying "Indians not allowed, only Chinese soldiers doing Hanky Panky preferred"

Jokes aside, I have also seen that once you cross Loma, you are very much on your own. For example, on the Entire Hanle-Kyun Tso-Nyoma stretch, we did not see a single soul. No changpa's no ITBP trucks, no locals. Just wild asses.
So if somebody came to Hanle via Kyun Tso, he or she would not have to pass through Loma Checkpost.

That said, the entire region near Hanle is bounded, so you cannot really get lost in China unless you pass through Chumur checkpost.
Moreover, they know that very few vehicles are capable of doing that stretch.

[Indian Ranger]

Fantastic pics Harsh. You have captured the locations beautifully and with crisp narration, have made this travelogue interesting. Some of the pics are mind blowing.

thanks for sharing.. and will be looking for more posts.

[vardhan.harsh]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

As for Dungti, I guess they need to put signboards saying "Indians not allowed, only Chinese soldiers doing Hanky Panky preferred"

. Hope the chinese never read it though.

Originally Posted by Indian Ranger

Fantastic pics Harsh. You have captured the locations beautifully and with crisp narration, have made this travelogue interesting. Some of the pics are mind blowing.

thanks for sharing.. and will be looking for more posts.

Thanks Indian ranger. Another edition coming up soon.

[vardhan.harsh]

As per plan, we set off for the 'highest motorable road in the world' early in the morning. It was supposed to be a longish day since we intended to first go to Panamik and then to Hundar to stay the night. All that, of course, was wishful thinking. As we approached South Pullu, the check-post 15 kms before Khardung La, we could see a line of cars ahead of us, and instantly knew that something was wrong. The Army guy at the check post told us that today was down-traffic day, which meant that only vehicles from Nubra to Leh would be allowed. The opposite traffic would be allowed, if at all, only late in the evening. This was because it had snowed the previous night, and they could only open the road for one-way traffic.

I could see our plan completely crumbling! However, by the time I reversed the car to head back, Aarti had already figured out the situation and had an alternate plan chalked out. She suggested that if we leave for Tso Moriri immediately, we might just be able to reach there by evening. Reach Tso Moriri we did, reach Karzok we did not!

The climb towards Khardung La

The road till Tanglang La was a breeze, marvelous flat roads. Since the Manali-Leh highway was still closed, there was hardly any traffic on the road. We were the only ones moving towards Manali on the highway, and it felt weirdly special.

The road till Upshi runs parallel to the Indus

A sign before Rumtse - Someone at BRO has a great sense of humour!

A chorten near Gya Village

Gya Gompa, perched on a hilltop

Do I need to mention our location?

Same spot as the previous snap

Soon thereafter we saw a cut on the road with Stallion tracks going up towards the road above. Thinking this must be a short-cut, and in mood for some off-roading action, we took the cut. Aarti decided it was about time she got familiar with the 4L mode as well. So, changing modes, she marched on. The climb was quite steep, but she managed beautifully. However, we soon realized that the Stallion driver who had made those tracks must've had a lot of time on his hands... The road led nowhere! That's what our dear friend Nithin KD calls "Ullu Bana Da La", or those roads which go nowhere and from where you need to turn back! . Cursing & swearing (not exactly, but I like the phrase), we started to head back, and that is when we got our first sighting of marmots. They are so amazingly cute, but really difficult to catch hold of.

Off-roading near Tanglang La

Walking back towards the car after a failed attempt to catch the marmot

Soon enough, we reached Tanglang La, and it was completely snowed out at the top. It had received fresh snowfall the night before, and a dozer was clearing the road when we reached the top. However, luck was with us this time around, and it wasn't long before the road was clear enough for us to proceed.

This, as most of you would recognize, is the final ascent to Tanglang La

Kiyang almost at the top of Tanglang La

Tanglang La

Moving towards Debring

Closing in on Debring

Kiyang at Debring

Hotel? What?? Where??? :grin:

We met a group of Israeli riders at Debring. A new born baby Yak was in the lap of one of the riders, feeding on a bottle of milk. The baby yak's mother had apparently deserted it, and according to the Changpa there, the calf must've been born just about 6 - 7 hours before. Without much further discussion, it was decided that the yak should be given to the Changpa who would be in the best position to rear it. A symbiotic relationship was created in front of us.

Guys at Debring, need to mail this snap to them

The cut for Tso Kar is not properly marked, but is the only road cutting off the highway at Debring

First sighting of Tso Kar at a distance

Proceeding towards Tso Kar

Tso Kar and the area around it is very reach in fauna. We had read at many places that Kiangs are definitely found near Tso Kar, and Brahmini ducks and cranes can also be sighted. We were lucky enough to have had an encounter with all of them. The best one was with the Kiangs though...

Endangered black necked cranes

Not too friendly, tried to fly away as I went near them

Look like Russian spies don't they?

And finally they took off, without saying goodbye

Thanks to Rajiv (rkbharat), i now know they are black headed sea gulls

Coming up... A meet-up with Kiangs.
Environmentalists, please ignore the next post. For the record, I did not scare them... I just rode with them. They like to run anyways... :grin:

To be continued...

[vardhan.harsh]

We saw them at a distance, they noticed us standing at a distance. We moved closer, they kept staring. We moved even closer, they started to get fidgety. When we were some 50 m away from them, they raised their heads at an angle and starting running like jackasses! This, my friends, was our first encounter with Kiangs, the tibetan wild asses after whom our beloved Safari is named. These guys are truly asses, and run like fools at the slightest chance of any danger. But what graceful animals! To see them galloping in the beautiful landscape, with their brown colour almost merging with the barren surroundings, is an unforgettable sight.

Even before embarking on our journey, it had been decided that one mandatory shot on the trip was to shoot Kiyang with Kiangs in the same frame. No matter how difficult it would be, it had to be done. And now the time had come! The only way to take the shot was for one of us to get down and shoot using the zoom lens, while the other drives Kiyang and takes it as close as possible to the Kiangs. I managed to convince Aarti that she let me drive and she could do the running around. :grin:. Somehow, in all that excitement, she agreed!

The graceful Kiangs doing what they do best... run!

Notice the sand trail of that Kiang, it gives you an idea of the speed. It's difficult to shoot with a 300mm lens without VR at such high speeds.

They are difficult to catch up with

The chase continues....

One of my favourite shots from the trip

Asses of the wild Tibetan asses

Kiyang running after Kiangs. Notice the shoes tied to Kiyang's roof!

This was the closest I could get... I must be doing 80!

Giving up, returning back to base

The end of our Kiang chasing session

It was almost quarter past 4 by the time we were done with Kiangs and moved on towards Tso Moriri. With a good 90-100 km still to cover, we were running pretty late. The climb and descent of Polongka La (exact spelling anyone?) was hardly noticeable. It was an easy pass, a straight climb and a straight descent. Now I leave it up to you to calculate the gradient ;-).

The road till Kiagar Tso was not much of an adventure, apart from another sighting of a Marmot, but again the elusive animal escaped without us being able to take a single shot.

Guess this was Polongka La

A hare almost merging with the stone behind, quite a great natural defense mechanism

This must be the Brahmini duck, it had horizontal lines on it's forehead

Salt deposits

Another marmot sighting

Namsheng La just before Kiagar Tso (did i spell it correctly?)

First view of the beautiful blue Kiagar Tso

A Changpa leading his herd on the banks of Kiagar Tso

'Cowboy' Changpa

Happy to pose!

Kiyang next to the lake

First view of Tso Moriri

With the last snap taken at 7 pm, we were all set to reach Karzok in another 45 minutes, right about the time it gets dark. The tarred road had now given way to tyre tracks, but they were pretty clear. However, we then came to a place where the tyre marks forked into two, and there were no sign boards to tell us which track went where. The one going left, however, seemed clearer, and there was a bridge on it ahead, so we decided to take that one. That, as we would find out half an hour later, was the wrong decision. This happened despite the fact that we had marked Karzok on the RIGHT bank of Tso Moriri on the map we made before the trip. After having moved for about half an hour on the left road, we began to worry about why we hadn't reached Karzok yet. We were losing light fast, and somehow we were not too comfortable to drive in the dark in that eerie silence.

It was almost dark when I saw some tiny spots on the opposite bank of Tso Moriri. It was then that I realized that we had come on the wrong track and Karzok was on the other side, now a good two hours away!

We discussed our options. Either we turn back now and reach Karzok by 10 pm, by which time getting an accommodation there would be next to impossible, forcing us to pitch our own tent there; or we go down to the bank from where we were standing and camp next to the lake. The latter definitely seemed to make more sense, also since we'd already been driving for 14 hours now, and were exhausted.

The road was nowhere close to the bank and the drop to the shore must be close to 100 m or so. We had to drive on a river bed to get to the bank. We carefully managed to negotiate the huge stones and reached the bank just as it got completely dark.

It was now time for the hardest part- pitching our tent, in limited light on a sandy beach! We had planned to pitch the tent right next to Kiyang to cut off the wind from at least one side, but since the beach was, of course, all sandy, we had to park Kiyang on some solid ground, some 30 m away from our camp site. Thankfully, the moonlight was bright that night, and we finished pitching in 20 minutes or so, struggling a bit to pitch the tent firmly in the sand. We then boiled some water, heated our ready-to-eat Yakhni rice in it, had a cup of tea and some chocolates, and called it a night.

Little did we know that the adventure was not over yet... It was close to about 1 am when both of us were awakened by some noise outside our tent, it seemed someone or something was scratching the tent from the outside...

We ended up bang opposite Karzok!

The U-turn marks the begining of the river bed on which we drove.

A top view of the campsite. The U-turn marks our descent to the lake. Notice the road on the right.

[ampere]

Man Harsh you have some real talent. Those creatures are just running wild and you have captured amazingly!
Hats off!

[lordofgondor]

Fantastic man, awesomely fantastic detailed log & superb snaps! That's the way Ladakh should be traversed. And thanks a ton to you and Tanveer for putting up those detailed routes.

Looking forward to read about your adventures at Tso Moriri mate.

Waiting for the days when I'll be following the tracks made by you guys and making new ones of my own.

[sen2009]

Little did we know that the adventure was not over yet... It was close to about 1 am when both of us were awakened by some noise outside our tent, it seemed someone or something was scratching the tent from the outside...

Common Man...
It's been two hours already. Please have mercy on my F5 key...

[vardhan.harsh]

Originally Posted by ampere

Man Harsh you have some real talent. Those creatures are just running wild and you have captured amazingly!
Hats off!

Thanks ampere.

Originally Posted by lordofgondor

Fantastic man, awesomely fantastic detailed log & superb snaps! That's the way Ladakh should be traversed. And thanks a ton to you and Tanveer for putting up those detailed routes.

Looking forward to read about your adventures at Tso Moriri mate.

Waiting for the days when I'll be following the tracks made by you guys and making new ones of my own.

Thanks lordofgondor. Another episode coming up soon.

Originally Posted by sen2009

Common Man...
It's been two hours already. Please have mercy on my F5 key...

you will not have to wait long i assure you

[vardhan.harsh]

Little did we know that the adventure was not over yet... It was close to about 1 am when both of us were awakened by some noise outside our tent, it seemed someone or something was scratching the tent from the outside...
--- continued from Day 7 ----

Oh well, it was nothing thankfully... just the outer layer of the tent flapping due to the strong wind. (Please do not kill me )

Although the temperature had dropped below zero outside, we were quite warm inside the tent. However, neither of us could sleep well due to the constant flapping of the tent. The lose sand was not able to hold the pins of the outer layer of the tent properly and it kept brushing against the inner one all night.

I woke up early, before sunrise, to catch a glimpse outside. And what a view! I really do not have adjectives to describe the beauty of the place. It was... heavenly! I took a walk along the beach for a while to soak in magnificence of the place.

The next thing to do was to check Kiyang's vitals, the daily ritual. Opened up the bonnet, checked everything. Checked the tyre pressure, everything seemed normal. Now as always, it was time to crank it up and leave it running for a while to let the engine heat up a bit. First crank.... nothing. Second crank... Nothing. Third, fourth... Nothing! My heart skipped a beat... we were alone there, quite far away from any sort of help.

However, a couple of minutes later, I realized that the problem is nothing but a simple cold. I'd often read travellers complaining about this problem in Ladakh, but this was the first time I was experiencing it. After all our Esteem did not give a single problem in Spiti. But this was of course a diesel vehicle, so things were different. So the solution was simple... I opened up the bonnet and let the engine heat up till we packed up our stuff.

The sun came up soon enough after, and after refreshing ourselves, it was time to cook some moong dal halwa breakfast (surprised? don't worry, it was a ready-to-eat packet of halwa) ). Enjoying garam garam halwa with an open view of Tso Moriri from inside our tent was a priceless feeling!

Our hotel next to Tso Moriri, with plenty of parking space

The royal steed waited patiently all night in the stable

Sunrise happening on Tso Moriri

Breakfast table view from our hotel

Our lake view hotel

I love this shot of ours, our friends did not though. They thought we looked Japanese!

Checking out of the hotel!

So that's where Karzok was, taken with the zoom lens (300mm) from our campsite

As per our original plan, we were supposed to stay the previous night in Karzok, and had planned to ask the villagers the next morning whether a direct route to Chumur from Tso Moriri existed or not. But now that there was no one around to ask, we had to decide for ourselves what our plan of action would be.

We had read a biker's blog (now identified as Sumit Tyagi, we got in touch via facebook recently) about a year ago who'd seen a jeep doing the direct road, and had followed the jeep, although with great difficulty. So we did know that a route existed... but could we take a risk based on just one biker's blog? We did see a definite road in front of us, the same road on which we'd taken a wrong turn the previous evening. This road was on the eastern bank of Tso Moriri, and our research on Google Earth earlier told us that if a direct road from Tso Moriri to Chumur existed, it had to be in the eastern bank. We then checked on our GPS, and the road was definitely going towards Chumur. FInally, we asked ourselves - "Why would the BRO blast a road unless it was going somewhere?" All these things seemed to point towards just one thing - the road in front of us would directly lead us to Chumur.

So, based on all these signs and under all these assumptions, it was decided during breakfast that we would head out towards Chumur. If we reach there by evening, well and good, else if we have to come back, we would stay the night at Karzok. And if we have to camp again, we were prepared.

With our stuff packed, I cranked the engine again, pumping on the accelerator continuously and voila! Kiyang came back to life. By 8:40 am we were climbing the river bed again towards the road, and by 9:00 am we were on our way to ... we did not know where.

Although the road was properly blasted, it obviously had no tar on it, and was extremely bumpy. Our average speed must've been close to 12-15 kmph! If we had to turn back, it sure was not going to be any fun!

It was around 10 am when we turned a bend, and got a rude shock! The road blasting work was incomplete and the road ended abruptly ahead. We were close to the southern most part of Tso Moriri. Although we could see no road ahead, we decided to drive till where we could see it ending, and soon we saw that there was a board at the point where the road ended. As we reached it, we saw what was written on it: "Aage road band hai, kripya neeche se jaaye". (The road ahead is closed, please move ahead by climbing down).

We tread the board, and then looked 'neeche' (down)... it was almost a 40 degree descent! Then it struck us, there were some tyre marks visible going down, and there were also some tyre tracks shamelessly climbing the hill in front of us! This was the road! We were scared, off-roading was one thing, but off-roading alone without a backup plan was not a wise idea. But we were in no mood to turn back now, and went on. Thus the thread topic - two idiots.

There are some adventures during which it is impossible to take a picture/video to capture the moment. This was one of them. We got down, and tried to do a recee of the situation. It seemed that if we really "crawl", it was actually possible to go down the hill. Now from my experience, if going down was safe, climbing up would be safer. With that in mind, we just decided to take the risk. With our hearts pounding, we moved ahead. It reminded us of our descent from Tapovan, where every step had to be taken slowly so as not to slip. The car had to kept dead straight, with no side movement whatsoever. Finally, we made it to the base of the hill, thanks to the 4L mode!

This picture might give you an idea of the descent

The next task at hand was to climb the hill in front of us. At first glance, it really seemed impossible. But as our eyes followed the Stallion tyre tracks, we could see the path and gradually became confident that although tough, it was doable. The trick was again to move only vertically up, and if there was sideways movement on the hill, it had to be short and fast. Eventually, we climbed the hill in 4H - 1st gear, not even needing the 4L mode!

Once the ascent was done, it was a relatively gentle and straight climb towards the next pass. I'm not 100% sure of the name of the pass, but have seen it referred to as Ungti La in some blogs. With the pass crossed, it was an almost flat ride on the top of the hill till we reached the final descent towards the Chumur valley. And what a sight it was! No-one to be seen for miles, no settlement, not a sign of civilization, not even a single Changpa around. No roads, just some tyre tracks to follow with aid of GPS and one's instincts.

The climb up as seen after the descent

The elsuive "Ungti La". I'm not too sure if that's actually the name of this pass.

The relatively flat road after "Ungti La"

Panorama towards Chumur valley

The gentle but straight descent from Ungti La

We had assumed that once we cross the pass and by the time we enter the Chumur valley, the road to Chumur would be smooth and direct. Little did we know that the valley itself was a marshy wet land, and one had to be very careful on the route one took. It took us at least an hour and a half to reach Chumur village after a couple of wrong turns. The GPS coordinates of Chumur, although not precise, were more or less correctly marked on Google Earth, and we must thank the person who marked it, for it was largely because of him/ her that we were now almost at Chumur.

Changpa kids who found us amusing and came running towards us

This sign board had us in splits! "Road"... what "road"?!

One climbs up such mini-hills and then descends them. Some parts of the valley are marshy and non-motorable.

Curious Kiangs

A visit to "the Gompa with the mummy" was on the cards, but that was more of an excuse rather than the real reason to visit Chumur. The Lama who had died sometime in the 1970s wished to stay in the gompa forever, and the only way to grant him his wishes was to embalm his body and keep it inside the monastery forever.

Another legend of the strange monastery goes back to the 1920s when a lady of the village, suspected to be a witch, was punished by having her hand dismembered from her body. Her son too was punished similarly for helping her in her wicked deeds. Their hands were then embalmed and are still kept in the monastery and serve as a message to the villagers not to mess with the "LAW".

The mummified remains of the Lama of Chumur Gompa who died sometime in the 1970s

The witch's hand

Her son's hand

The Lamas at Chumur

The Chumur monastery complex with the village below, and the approach road

After a quick tour of the gompa and a quick lunch, thanks to the Lamas there, we decided to move on to Hanle and not spend the night at Chumur, as we'd planned in the morning. We were under the impression earlier that the route to Hanle takes about 7 hours to cover. However, the Lamas at Chumur told us that it takes only about 4 - 5 hours to reach Hanle. After discussing the route with an ITBP Jawan (who spoke broken Hindi), we left for Hanle at 1:30 pm...

[SinghBHP]

Awesome post
Awesome Pics
Awesome Writeup
Awesome Writer
Awesome Camera
Awesome Cameraman

This is one of the best travelogue I have ever read, this seems to be something straight out of some professional travel magazine. You are a wonderful writer and equally good photographer.
BTW Which camera did you use for it ?