Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 8th February 2011, 08:09

@Sudarshan, your axles are much stronger than the Gypsy ones with those added reinforcements. Some nice design cues there.

Spike

headers · 8th February 2011, 19:53

The axle truss shown in the pics from the post of MOD Jaggu give some nice ideas too.

http://www.google.co.in/images?q=Axl...w=1280&bih=933

My doubts are where the load is going to be distributed and how?

Nevertheless, it would be worth a try for GS's style of driving

GS, go for it

Sutripta · 8th February 2011, 20:48

^^^
Hi,
Almost all the pictures show the truss to be on the upper side. (unlike Sudarshan's setup). Considering the clearance issues it will invoke, wonder why. (Lower side would of course reduce ground clearance, but still, as a manufacturer, shouldn't I make both, and let the customer decide? )

Regards
Sutripta

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 8th February 2011, 20:59

Dada, how to decide whether to go for a tie or a strut (member under tension or compression)?

Spike

Sutripta · 8th February 2011, 21:05

^^^^
Hi,
Other things being equal, I prefer (thin long steel) members under tension.

Which side does the tube bend? And why?

Regards
Sutripta

Sudarshan · 8th February 2011, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutripta

^^^
Hi,
Almost all the pictures show the truss to be on the upper side. (unlike Sudarshan's setup). Considering the clearance issues it will invoke, wonder why. (Lower side would of course reduce ground clearance, but still, as a manufacturer, shouldn't I make both, and let the customer decide? )

Regards
Sutripta

IMHO Land Rover chose the lower ones because the lower side hits the obstacle . This works both ways 1) creates a crumple zone kind of thing 2) + the regular function of strengthening the axle

they have lost a 1.5" of clearance but this is with 7.50 X 16 tyres where the lowest point of diff has 9'' ground clearance.

Sudarshan

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 8th February 2011, 21:56

Will this have effects?

Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue-20110208_214713.jpg

What happens in case of an SPOA, increased weight, considering the axle to be simply supported.

Spike

Sutripta · 8th February 2011, 22:12

^^^^
The diagram shows all possibilities. Do all of them happen in a Gypsy, or only one for all practical purposes?

When these housings are straightened, where exactly is it supported, and where exactly is the restoring force applied?

Diff tube bending used to be very common amongst rally Gypsies. Can someone post some pictures. Also, did any Indian team use a truss?

Regards
Sutripta

gsferrari · 7th March 2011, 20:29

This is a picture of the bent housing. Just got my Gypsy back today with the new housing fitted. They've replaced everything from KP bearings, shims, oil seals etc. Only the axles and the knuckles are from the old setup.

Cost me Rs.14000 including labour. Parts cost was 11000. This includes the front axle housing (Rs.4200) and some other stuff like window beadings etc. which I needed to get done. Job took 1 months and 3 days to complete...long wait for the parts to show up.

Would have been cheaper to get this done outside M.A.S.S.

starter · 7th March 2011, 21:01

Hey Guru,
Good to know that the Gypsy is back.
Sounds crazy that it takes a month to get a new axle housing.
Din't you try to get the bend in the housing removed? Wasn't it possible?
Hopefully, you don't encounter any more broken kingpins.
Cheers,
Deepak

gsferrari · 7th March 2011, 21:31

I didn't want to repair the housing and use it so I asked for a complete replacement. This took 3 weeks to get in as well as some of the other parts. I guess they get an order, put it into the production numbers and once it is ready they ship it out. Not sure if they stock something like this. All I can say is the part quality isn't up to snuff...the metal used is waaay too soft. This makes it less brittle but being malleable isn't that attractive a proposition either.

I will try to straighten the bent housing at a lathe over the next few days and if it is true, then I will build a beta "truss" on it, install a rear diff housing and add diff-locks. Only thing I am not sure about is that the spline count is different for front and rear axles and the front axle is FFRA...rear is SFRA so will the rear axle fit the front housing?

Have to check this out...

gsferrari · 7th March 2011, 22:04

No...it won't work. I'll have to order a diff-lock with 22-spline carrier spider gears. Not sure if Lockright do that.

So yeah...straighten it out and keep it as a spare!

Sudarshan · 7th March 2011, 22:11

IMHO - your suspension is too stiff , shock is not 'soaked up ' , check that . you may end up in bending another one

Sudarshan

gsferrari · 7th March 2011, 22:35

Will do Sudarshan...I am planning to revert (upon Arka's advice) to stock shackles and drop a leaf from the front/rear leaf-spring set.

headers · 8th March 2011, 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Will do Sudarshan...I am planning to revert (upon Arka's advice) to stock shackles and drop a leaf from the front/rear leaf-spring set.

Why GS? What did Arka advice? And what leaf count are you running front and back? What does Allan recommend?

8th February 2011, 08:09	#61
SPIKE ARRESTOR Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 2,854 Thanked: 1,532 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue @Sudarshan, your axles are much stronger than the Gypsy ones with those added reinforcements. Some nice design cues there. Spike
	() Thanks

8th February 2011, 19:53	#62
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai Posts: 4,667 Thanked: 559 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue The axle truss shown in the pics from the post of MOD Jaggu give some nice ideas too. http://www.google.co.in/images?q=Axl...w=1280&bih=933 My doubts are where the load is going to be distributed and how? Nevertheless, it would be worth a try for GS's style of driving GS, go for it Last edited by headers : 8th February 2011 at 19:54.
	() Thanks

8th February 2011, 20:48	#63
Sutripta Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,668 Thanked: 6,217 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue ^^^ Hi, Almost all the pictures show the truss to be on the upper side. (unlike Sudarshan's setup). Considering the clearance issues it will invoke, wonder why. (Lower side would of course reduce ground clearance, but still, as a manufacturer, shouldn't I make both, and let the customer decide? ) Regards Sutripta
	() Thanks

8th February 2011, 20:59	#64
SPIKE ARRESTOR Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 2,854 Thanked: 1,532 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue Dada, how to decide whether to go for a tie or a strut (member under tension or compression)? Spike
	() Thanks

8th February 2011, 21:05	#65
Sutripta Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,668 Thanked: 6,217 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue ^^^^ Hi, Other things being equal, I prefer (thin long steel) members under tension. Which side does the tube bend? And why? Regards Sutripta Last edited by Sutripta : 8th February 2011 at 21:08. Reason: Added qualifiers
	() Thanks

8th February 2011, 21:56	#67
SPIKE ARRESTOR Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 2,854 Thanked: 1,532 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue Will this have effects? What happens in case of an SPOA, increased weight, considering the axle to be simply supported. Spike
	() Thanks

8th February 2011, 22:12	#68
Sutripta Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,668 Thanked: 6,217 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue ^^^^ The diagram shows all possibilities. Do all of them happen in a Gypsy, or only one for all practical purposes? When these housings are straightened, where exactly is it supported, and where exactly is the restoring force applied? Diff tube bending used to be very common amongst rally Gypsies. Can someone post some pictures. Also, did any Indian team use a truss? Regards Sutripta
	() Thanks

7th March 2011, 20:29	#69
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,014 Thanked: 1,809 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue This is a picture of the bent housing. Just got my Gypsy back today with the new housing fitted. They've replaced everything from KP bearings, shims, oil seals etc. Only the axles and the knuckles are from the old setup. Cost me Rs.14000 including labour. Parts cost was 11000. This includes the front axle housing (Rs.4200) and some other stuff like window beadings etc. which I needed to get done. Job took 1 months and 3 days to complete...long wait for the parts to show up. Would have been cheaper to get this done outside M.A.S.S.
	() Thanks

7th March 2011, 21:01	#70
starter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,127 Thanked: 903 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue Hey Guru, Good to know that the Gypsy is back. Sounds crazy that it takes a month to get a new axle housing. Din't you try to get the bend in the housing removed? Wasn't it possible? Hopefully, you don't encounter any more broken kingpins. Cheers, Deepak
	() Thanks

7th March 2011, 21:31	#71
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,014 Thanked: 1,809 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue I didn't want to repair the housing and use it so I asked for a complete replacement. This took 3 weeks to get in as well as some of the other parts. I guess they get an order, put it into the production numbers and once it is ready they ship it out. Not sure if they stock something like this. All I can say is the part quality isn't up to snuff...the metal used is waaay too soft. This makes it less brittle but being malleable isn't that attractive a proposition either. I will try to straighten the bent housing at a lathe over the next few days and if it is true, then I will build a beta "truss" on it, install a rear diff housing and add diff-locks. Only thing I am not sure about is that the spline count is different for front and rear axles and the front axle is FFRA...rear is SFRA so will the rear axle fit the front housing? Have to check this out...
	() Thanks

7th March 2011, 22:04	#72
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,014 Thanked: 1,809 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue No...it won't work. I'll have to order a diff-lock with 22-spline carrier spider gears. Not sure if Lockright do that. So yeah...straighten it out and keep it as a spare!
	() Thanks

7th March 2011, 22:11	#73
Sudarshan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 1,200 Thanked: 880 Times View My Garage	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue IMHO - your suspension is too stiff , shock is not 'soaked up ' , check that . you may end up in bending another one Sudarshan
	() Thanks

7th March 2011, 22:35	#74
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,014 Thanked: 1,809 Times	Re: Maruti Gypsy MG413W - King Pin Bearing issue Will do Sudarshan...I am planning to revert (upon Arka's advice) to stock shackles and drop a leaf from the front/rear leaf-spring set.
	() Thanks