[XD2]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

This is SHOCKING!!!

Do they have no preventive maintenance systems in place to check for signs when the service is done? Is it all down to the owner to do? I am appalled to see such shoddy production and then to top it with even shoddier Control systems.

What a wonderful vehicle destroyed by plain and simple callousness!

Hope you get this problem sorted out and infact I would recommend you to go to the root cause of the rupture of the hose. Was it extreme bending or was it just a manufacturing defect? For which I would suggest moving to a better brake hose, maybe even a steel braided one.

I was expecting they would, but am now forced to think otherwise.

Added some pics to the main Thar thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3240817

The root cause is something that I am unable to figure. There is no extreme bending - not at the point of fracture. The service center suggested a stone injury - but I am not willing to agree to that. Seems it just gave up.

A steel braided one might be a good move after this encounter. For now, keeping a watchful eye on the condition of both the hoses - the weekly checklist increases.

[amolpol]

Originally Posted by XD2

Please have this carefully inspected. I had the same issue with my Thar yesterday. Today the brakes gave up completely in the middle of the highway . The RH caliper hose had fractured and was spewing brake fluid all over. All this happened in a matter of minutes and exactly 2 days after its 20,000km service.

The brakes have been thoroughly inspected by the service personnel so far and have been bled numerous times to tackle this issue. However, I don't think they've been able to zero in on the exact cause of the problem. Apart from the regular A/C water droplets, there is no leakage whatsoever since otherwise I would have come to know easily in my parking bay. But I will get this checked up again just to be sure.

I have to visit the ASC again for fixing a new handbrake cable before I forget that it ever existed. Without the handbrake it's difficult to keep the engine running during quick stops since it keeps rolling most of the times. Unfortunately, I can't even leave it in for service currently since it is being used by my wife for her office commute while I'm mostly using the bike for errands.

Soon the wait shall be over once the new sibling arrives next week and the jeep will be freed from it's daily duties.

[XD2]

amolpol: can you some more feedback on the P245/75/R16 BigHorns. I am planning to get a second set of tyres (M/T) for my Thar for OTRs and am looking towards the Bighorn 764.

However, I plan to stick with the steel wheels - I read in your thread that it was causing issues - but the Offroad academy Thars are running the 764s - so I hope that will be liveable. Adding a set of alloys pushes the entire idea out of my budget.

Road noise should be a non-issue. I will be retaining my H/Ts as they've done some 25k and I cannot sell them for much anyway.

[samwagon]

Originally Posted by amolpol

Amen brother! I'm hoping to see this issue being taken care of by Mahindra vs outside mechanics.


A few more updates since last week:

- Finally the rear bumper is now installed back on the jeep, although it's not 100% complete. Vijay sir from Swastik fabs was able to modify the design to introduce an additional locking and support mechanism to take care of the shaky tire carrier door. Not that it's any more convenient than before since there's an additional locking point that needs to be opened before using that door, but it's a bit reassuring in terms of the vibration than earlier. The sad part is that I can't test the ruggedness of the new design because apparently the bracket for the tire mounting has gone missing and I'm left with no choice but to leave the spare wheel at home till I get a replacement for it. Hopefully, there'll be some closure to this in the next few weeks.

- One of the front fog lamps had a broken glass due to a stone on the highway. This was replaced with a new one since I couldn't manage to find only the glass lens on JC road. These are the Neolite 714 JCB work lamps, and I have to trash a working lamp if there's no way I can get a fix for the glass. Anyways, for now it's done, but if anyone has leads on how/where to procure the glass lens for the lamp, let me know.

- In the last couple of OTRs, there was a need felt for limb risers to keep the branches away while going through thick tree cover etc. This was also necessary since I usually mount the GoPro camera on the outside of the windshield and it's best to keep distractions away. So a pair of limb risers were installed over the weekend.

- A new spare tire cover was bought since my old one was torn to pieces when the bumper fell off. Will have to wait for the spare wheel to be back in its place before I can use it though.

- Recently found out that the ASC hadn't forgotten the handbrake issue, they just couldn't fix it because of unavailability of parts. I got a call yesterday stating that the cable has arrived and that I could drop in and have it fixed.

- Since the jeep has done about 10k, I thought I'd get the alignment and balancing done along with tyre rotation. Went to Madhus on Saturday evening to get it done. Opted for the Road Force balancing but ran into issues with one of the wheels where the suggested weights were more than 175gms to get it balanced. The other three wheels required weights under 100g and were balanced correctly whereas the fourth wheel was left unbalanced as per the advise of the personnel there.

- The unbalanced wheel is now at the rear right position and I was told that it shouldn't affect the driving dynamics too much. However, later I realized that the steering is no longer centered and has quite a left bias. Have to keep it turned rightwards to have a straight line track, also there is a definite left pull when the hands are off the wheel. This just means more rework to get it fixed and another weekend wasted.

- The guy also identified a cross thread issue on one of the stud bolts which has to be replaced - another action item for the ASC visit.

Phew! That turned out to be a lot longer update than what I had originally thought of. For now, let me just finish this bulletin with a picture post installing the limb risers.

Attachment 1139510

Dear Amolpol, have been following your thread since i bought my own Thar. What a great looking Thar. Nice work. Black it would have been for me but for the fact that my other car is black.

The issues that you have experienced really scare me to bits and spoil an otherwise amazing experience i am having with my Thar. I haven't experienced anything serious till now (almost 15000Kms) and warranty runs out next month. I am scared. I sincerely hope Mahindra does a recall and upgrades brakes on all Thars. Keep up the good work and hope all you issues get resolved pronto. happy Jeeping.

[amolpol]

The handbrake cable that was ordered in August had arrived some time in September but I hadn't been able to have it fixed since my wife was using it last month for her office runs. I didn't want to leave it at the ASC at that time since it never has made it back on time ever in this one year, being the only car until the Fortuner arrived we couldn't afford any downtime.

Finally, on Friday Oct 18th, I confirmed with the ASC manager and left the jeep for the cable replacement. The other two things to do were

• Replace one of the wheel studs since it was found to be cross-threaded when fitting the wheel back after the balancing and alignment job last month.
• Replace the rubber bump stops on the front suspension since they were missing from both sides this time.

As usual, I was told that it may not be possible to deliver the jeep by evening and I could collect it on Saturday afternoon. I didn't need it immediately so it was okay to wait a day.

Saturday when I called, the ASC manager informs me that they have found some problem with the clutch pedal which was getting stuck or something to that effect. He obviously couldn't tell me what exactly the issue was but said that his team will take care of it nevertheless. It implied that he'd now give the jeep on Monday afternoon after verifying everything so it just added two more days of stay at the ASC. I wasn't expecting this but finally said okay and that he needs to explain what exactly was the issue when I come on Monday.

Now, on Monday afternoon when I call, I am told that the vehicle will be ready shortly and that everything has been fixed. Casually I ask the SA on how much the bill would be since if it's not much I could very well ask him to drop off the jeep at my place. This is where things became a bit unnerving, the SA looks for the bill and tells me that the bill is approx 5700. I'm very amused by what he was saying now and ask him for details. He goes on to tell me that they found another issue with the lower ball joint assembly and it has been replaced, although not under warranty.

The summary of work as per what he told me was:

- Handbrake cable replaced - but it wasn't covered under warranty. I'm charged about 500 for the part and some more for labor etc
- I'm told that they have replaced the ball joint on the front right suspension since the rubber seal had cracked. I asked them what could have caused the problem, and he obviously didn't have a good answer but just kept telling me that it was wear and tear damage so wasn't covered under warranty.
- The wheel stud has been replaced as per my request.

Monday was anyways a busy day for me and I didn't have time to visit the ASC and verify the issues. I told him that we'd talk on Tuesday and close it. On Tuesday, I spoke to them again since I was unable to visit them in the morning and their version has changed a bit. Apparently they changed the ball joint as preventive maintenance since the rubber casing had cracked and it could have led to a failure shortly, but the part had not failed as yet. So the cost of this preventive maintenance was nicely put on my head for a part that should have a much longer rated life than measly 10700kms I've done so far. What ticked me off was that the ASC never kept me informed on what was being done and no cost estimation was done, putting me in the spot at the end to pay up with no obvious choice.

On speaking with the M&M Area office, I was heard and they agreed to spare me of the replacement cost of the ball joint. The average life of the part is much more than what I have done in the 11 months so far so I wasn't liable to pay for such replacement. I wanted to ask him about the handbrake cable also since that has gone kaput since August which means in just 9 months since I bought it. Anyway, I didn't want to sound too pushy about everything so decided it was not worth the struggle. Work schedules didn't permit me to visit the ASC even on Tuesday and so it wasn't until Wednesday morning when I met the service manager to close on the issue and get my jeep back.

I paid about 1300 for all the things apart from the ball joint replacement and have told the ASC guys and the Area Manager that I would need to get my jeep checked by the Mahindra engineer who would visit the ASC next time. I need to understand whether the torsion bar settings are correct and clarify on a few other things that keep coming up every now and then.

If you were thinking that this is how my story ended to live happily ever after, it's not so easy!

Last weekend I attended the BODA Offroading Jamboree which was organized by the BODA guys in Bangalore. While the event itself was pretty well managed and presented a nice set of tracks to challenge the offroad ability of most participants, I realized that the sinking brake pedal issue had emerged again. I had some narrow misses on the way to the trail and on the trail as well. Finally, I decided to not take this any more and have raised a complaint with the M&M guys. They seem to have diagnosed it as an issue with the brake booster and a replacement shall arrive soon. Hopefully, that should take care of the issue.

I did check on whether I could get an upgrade done to the booster and vacuum tank from the scorpio instead of just changing the booster. I don't expect M&M to cover the upgrade under warranty and offered to pay the differential costs. But I was told that the Scorpio setup isn't recommended because of the excessive stopping power that it carries. Wonder what are the downsides of having higher than needed braking power. You may need to apply the brakes judiciously since too much stopping power could throw the rear occupants out of their seats under sudden braking. In general, isn't it better to have more and use less rather than have lesser braking to begin with. The answer to that question may be very obvious, however, the engineering team at M&M thinks that the current system is adequate and no change is required.

Given that the Thar brakes have been criticized by everyone, M&M seems to be playing the fool by ignoring the voices of customers who have already paid them more than the worth of the vehicle. Only if this weren't India with the infamous judiciary system, the customers could have made M&M to actually RISE.

[amolpol]

Originally Posted by XD2

amolpol: can you some more feedback on the P245/75/R16 BigHorns. I am planning to get a second set of tyres (M/T) for my Thar for OTRs and am looking towards the Bighorn 764.

However, I plan to stick with the steel wheels - I read in your thread that it was causing issues - but the Offroad academy Thars are running the 764s - so I hope that will be liveable. Adding a set of alloys pushes the entire idea out of my budget.

Road noise should be a non-issue. I will be retaining my H/Ts as they've done some 25k and I cannot sell them for much anyway.

The Bighorns are worth the money I can say. They give quite a bit of confidence when you're off the road. It is the on road performance that suffers quite a bit, braking distance, comfort, noise etc.

Plus:

- Superb side wall protection
- Really effective mud/slush traction
- Aggressive looks enhance the jeep stance
- Overall a very good off-road tire option

Minus:

- Road noise is an irritant above 80kph
- Braking distance is much higher than the AT/HT tires
- Lower top speed rating of 140kph
- Lower tire life - tread wear and tear is much faster than regular tires when used all the time. (For you, it may not be an issue if you use it selectively)
- The tyre used to touch in the front on full turns - this shouldn't an issue for the other mechanicals but the tire wear will be higher in the area where it touches. Most of the Mahindra Adventure Thars have stock alloys and not steel wheels, I'm not sure if the issue exists with the alloys.

Originally Posted by samwagon

Dear Amolpol, have been following your thread since i bought my own Thar. What a great looking Thar. Nice work. Black it would have been for me but for the fact that my other car is black.

Thanks samwagon, I've tried to keep all the mods focused on functionality and performance off-road. The only cosmetic thing I always wanted to do was the invasion star decal on the bonnet. I'm very glad I did it

Originally Posted by samwagon

The issues that you have experienced really scare me to bits and spoil an otherwise amazing experience i am having with my Thar. I haven't experienced anything serious till now (almost 15000Kms) and warranty runs out next month. I am scared. I sincerely hope Mahindra does a recall and upgrades brakes on all Thars. Keep up the good work and hope all you issues get resolved pronto. happy Jeeping.

From whatever experience I've had with the Thar so far, I think as long as you don't go by the "Thar hates tar" statement, everything should be fine. I'm not too worried about the problems myself, it teaches you a thing or two every time the jeep is at the garage.

Like what BD sir said in one of his posts, just use it out of the box, don't change anything on it and it won't break on you. The build quality is definitely (if not better) at par with the M800 that used to sell 20 years ago and if used on the roads, it shouldn't give you much trouble. Afterall, CMVR regulations haven't really changed too much ever since you see. Auto manufacturers are still allowed to skimp on some of safety basics and get their vehicle to pass the "stringent" CMVR norms.

Now when CMVR okays a "lifestyle" vehicle, it doesn't mean that the vehicle is ready to go on a mission right out of the box. That is where owners like me just tend to "misuse" it by taking it out of its comfort zone like it was built to do all that. It is only when you take it off-road as advertised by some ignorant fools in M&M that the problems start. Things start falling, breaking, creaking, wearing out and there are just complaints all the time. It is times like these when the owner is left wondering if he/she made the right decision of buying a urban city purpose jeep for offroad use.

But you knew all that before you bought it, didn't you. Exactly my point, I did too, and so I have made peace with it and don't really get perturbed by the frequent visits to the ASC. A lot of people have told me that they're scared after reading what I have gone through, but I'm not. I asked for this and am going to live through it till a point when I can afford something better. Simple as that!

As per design, this was built as a Jeep to satisfy male egos and to help woo the pretty things of opposite gender by way of showing off. The product placement was done thinking of a boys' childhood fantasy and how he always wanted to own a jeep to go to office everyday and feel all macho about it. I must admit, it does all that beautifully, no complaints whatsoever. Only problem for me, I don't drive it to office daily and am happily married with a lovely wife and daughter so I may be late for the party already!

A lot of times I see similarities between the dinosaur companies like M&M, Tata and Enfield - all of which I've been associated with. Take the Continental GT cafe racer for example. I'm not sure what would you "race" with if you've got a 535cc engine putting out just 29 horses with a single cyl in the year 2013! The company expects people to pay 2.5L or whatever the price is, for something that they would have adored 20 years ago and feel super happy about it now. More than the quality and performance of products, these companies are selling childhood dreams to people at exorbitant prices. Don't know how long this fashion trend will last, hopefully the Indian consumer will eventually start getting the worth of what they paid for.

Coming to the brake issue, don't expect any upgrade from M&M coz there ain't going to be any. Not now, and may not be in the future as well from the way I see it. I don't think this is a product where they'll want to invest too much. They have it out there and its probably selling more than what they originally thought, but the relative numbers ain't gonna keep the management excited forever. Today's sales growth is tomorrows expectation and such niche products can never keep up with that harsh reality to command R&D attention like what the XUV would get for improvements and bug fixes.

[amolpol]

So a couple of weeks back I did get the brake booster changed under warranty and the new one was with the updated part #. I was told that the 'sinking pedal' issue should be done away with after this upgrade. Unfortunately, it is not so!

Last Sunday, I took the jeep out for a offroad meet and there it happened again. Atleast 3-4 times the pedal just lost pressure with minimal to no braking effect. I've raised this concern again with M&M and will be leaving the jeep for yet another session with the service center tomorrow. I've told them clearly that this is not an issue that I can live with, even though I'm okay with the poor braking overall. Lets see how it goes from here.

For now, here's a pic of the jeep in its natural environment, doing what a jeep is supposed to do.

[showboat]

Originally Posted by amolpol

So a couple of weeks back I did get the brake booster changed under warranty and the new one was with the updated part #. I was told that the 'sinking pedal' issue should be done away with after this upgrade. Unfortunately, it is not so!

Last Sunday, I took the jeep out for a offroad meet and there it happened again. Atleast 3-4 times the pedal just lost pressure with minimal to no braking effect. I've raised this concern again with M&M and will be leaving the jeep for yet another session with the service center tomorrow. I've told them clearly that this is not an issue that I can live with, even though I'm okay with the poor braking overall. Lets see how it goes from here.

For now, here's a pic of the jeep in its natural environment, doing what a jeep is supposed to do.

Attachment 1166233

Excellent looking Jeep. Really like how aggressive it looks. I just purchased a Thar and will be getting delivery any day now. The one issue I have is that my planned mods will look almost identical to yours. I just wanted to say sorry in advance. I think I picked out the exact same rims as yours, and my Thar is black too . If you don't mind would you be able to PM the price for your alloys? I just wanted to know the deal I was getting for mine were reasonable.

How do you like the performance of your Hella lights? I was planning on getting a similar 7" set up front with some rectangular worklights up top.

I hope you get the brake issues resolved. I saw during PDI that they are giving the tandem (double diaphragm) booster standard now, but the vacuum tank is the same small one. Here's hoping the sinking pedal feeling does not happen in the models.

[samwagon]

Originally Posted by showboat

I hope you get the brake issues resolved. I saw during PDI that they are giving the tandem (double diaphragm) booster standard now, but the vacuum tank is the same small one. Here's hoping the sinking pedal feeling does not happen in the models.

Hi showboat, congrats on your impending purchase. Just need one clarification. To my knowledge, the Thar always came with tandem booster as standard. And its remained the same since launch despite two upgrades, the recent one being in Sep 13. Have checked the same in a 2011 and my own late 2012 thar. So are you sure that yours is an upgrade. Will post part no in mine tommorrow.

[showboat]

Originally Posted by samwagon

Hi showboat, congrats on your impending purchase. Just need one clarification. To my knowledge, the Thar always came with tandem booster as standard. And its remained the same since launch despite two upgrades, the recent one being in Sep 13. Have checked the same in a 2011 and my own late 2012 thar. So are you sure that yours is an upgrade. Will post part no in mine tommorrow.

Hi Samwagon. My limited knowledge came from talking to the Service floor manager when I went for my PDI. He mentioned that the booster was an upgraded model. It had the new part no also (0607AA01751N). It could be true that he was just saying whatever I wanted to hear. I will ask the sales team to find out more details from Mahindra for me. It would be good to know either way because if its not an 'upgraded' booster than the scorpio brakes might be required at some point.

Thanks.

[amolpol]

Originally Posted by showboat

The one issue I have is that my planned mods will look almost identical to yours. I just wanted to say sorry in advance.

Hey, no need to say sorry. You're about to bring in another good looking jeep on the roads

Originally Posted by showboat

If you don't mind would you be able to PM the price for your alloys? I just wanted to know the deal I was getting for mine were reasonable.

IIRC, it was 25k for a set of 5 alloys.

Originally Posted by showboat

How do you like the performance of your Hella lights? I was planning on getting a similar 7" set up front with some rectangular worklights up top.

The hellas are daylights, you have to use them very judiciously when there's no oncoming traffic.

Originally Posted by showboat

I hope you get the brake issues resolved. I saw during PDI that they are giving the tandem (double diaphragm) booster standard now, but the vacuum tank is the same small one. Here's hoping the sinking pedal feeling does not happen in the models.

You're right about the vacuum tank, its the same old one even though the booster is bigger. I'm not sure if there's an easy way out for the sinking pedal issue unless the vacuum tank is changed, but will wait for the assessment from the M&M technical team who are currently working on my jeep .

Originally Posted by samwagon

To my knowledge, the Thar always came with tandem booster as standard. And its remained the same since launch despite two upgrades, the recent one being in Sep 13.

The new one is bigger than the one I got on my NOv-12 thar, so I know its an upgraded part.

[samwagon]

Originally Posted by showboat

Hi Samwagon. My limited knowledge came from talking to the Service floor manager when I went for my PDI. He mentioned that the booster was an upgraded model. It had the new part no also (0607AA01751N). It could be true that he was just saying whatever I wanted to hear. I will ask the sales team to find out more details from Mahindra for me. It would be good to know either way because if its not an 'upgraded' booster than the scorpio brakes might be required at some point.

Thanks.

The part no for the brake booster on my Nov 2012 Thar is 0607AAB01210N and the part no you quoted is indeed for a different booster perhaps a scorpio Mhawk one. So it seems there is an upgrade afterall at least in the booster. Have you checked the part no yourself.

[showboat]

Originally Posted by samwagon

The part no for the brake booster on my Nov 2012 Thar is 0607AAB01210N and the part no you quoted is indeed for a different booster perhaps a scorpio Mhawk one. So it seems there is an upgrade afterall at least in the booster. Have you checked the part no yourself.

I did see it myself. I've posted a pic below. It's not the clearest, sorry. It was confirmed that the booster is similar to the mHawk, however I do not know if they are using the same part number. Maybe somebody with a new Scorpio can confirm. Otherwise when I go for delivery I can try and check.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

[quote] THAR has never let me down. In the last 2 x competitions I finished 3rd and 2nd, kicking most of the big name brands bye-bye. One issue I would appreciate some guidance on is the 4x4 front hub auto-lockers. Is this a common fault that it does not unlatch itself? TWICE now I have had the left from wheel literally being held on by the disc brake caliper!!!, both axle locknuts off, circlip broke into pieces. Is there something special that we could do to ensure the auto -locker mechanism is free ?? Would going into reverse for 1 meter help to make sure the auto-locker has dissengaged ? Is the 2014 change, having constant engaged 4x4 a good thing? Can I get a workshop manual with exploded view or assembly drawing of the front hubs for the 2014 type hub?? Just keen to sort this front hub lock unlock mechanism out real soon. Is there another part we can fit , that allows MANUAL hub locking. I don't mind climbing out to lock. [Unquote]

Dear amolpol and all - I learnt something new I am so sharing. Please refer eagle888's post number 2833 dated 18112013 in the official Thar test review thread. Amolpol, you had a similar failure mode on your vehicle. Could this be the root cause? Let's put on our thinking caps and analyse, we will all learn. Please revert.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by XD2

Today the brakes gave up completely in the middle of the highway . The RH caliper hose had fractured and was spewing brake fluid all over.

Hi,
Did you loose braking completely?
Wonder if ARAI check whether dual circuit (failsafe) system work as advertised.

Regards
Sutripta