[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by antihero

Don't have many photos from the last ( 2017-18 ) winter but this here is my favourite. Running the gypsy in a snowstorm accompanied with my friend G and his son. The Mg410w is like a old lovable uncle among the kids. I'm just glad they are growing up with a 4wd in the house. Also the Mg410w brings out a smile in everybody.

I love your thread. And the warmth of the style of writing.
Hopefully I will (by God’s Grace) come there one day in my old green gypsy and meet you man!

[antihero]

Another simple yet essential winter To do completed today. Making sure all my lights - front and rear are in prime working order. Since I do not have any additional lights, fog lamps or DRLs it makes sense to keep the stock setup at its 100%. It's a simple thing. Use a screwdriver set to take apart the mounts. Clean the reflectors & bulbs, squirt a bit of wd40 on the connectors and clean the glass case with an old toothbrush.

Yes I know my lights look a lot worse for wear but they are oem with the date of manufacture (1996) printer on them so I'm keeping them as is for now.

Being an old vehicle everything is held together with screws rather than plastic clips which have a propensity to break when taken apart. This is something that I really love about these rugged old vehicles - they encourage the diy'er in you because they are so easy to work with.
While I was at it I decided to put a bottle of Vaseline to good use.
The battery terminals have a liberal coat of Vaseline. I find this keeps corrosion at bay.

The other involves my wiper routine.
1. Clean the blade using a soft cotton cloth.
2. Use a vinegar dipped cloth to clean it again.
3. Then rub a tiny amount of Vaseline to keep the rubber supple and nourished.

Once this was done. All moving exposed parts like hinges etc were sprayed with WD40.
One thing to remember with WD40 is that it will displace grease along with water so make sure it's only used at places where you would not apply grease.

With that today's DIY workshop is closed. Total time 2 hours with John Fogerty on the speakers.

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

I believe most of the major hill towns have at least one expert mechanic. In Shimla we have Mini; the guy is quite a legend and has been working on Gypsys for the last 30 years & used to work for Vijay Parmar (the guy who started Raid De Himalaya) & has his own workshop now on the outskirts of Shimla. His expertise on Gypsys has to be experienced to be believed.

Mini is a legend. Even I have heard of him. Remember I posted a long time about a knackered exhaust in Barog. The workshop guy suggested that if I was headed to Shimla better get gypsy looked over by mini.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I love your thread. And the warmth of the style of writing.
Hopefully I will (by God's Grace) come there one day in my old green gypsy and meet you man!

More the merrier @shankar.balan. You are most welcome.

[crdi]

How do you apply vaseline on the wiper blades? Is it the regular vaseline? Wouldn't it smudge the windscreen?

[antihero]

Originally Posted by crdi

How do you apply vaseline on the wiper blades? Is it the regular vaseline? Wouldn't it smudge the windscreen?

Ok 2 things
1. You need to apply the Vaseline on the flat side of the wiper, not on the edge that meets the glass.
2. The idea is to use a very small amount. Not to smother the blade, but just a tiny amount that gets absorbed and keeps the rubber nourished.

I've been doing this for the last 4 years. We get sub zero temps 2-3 months in a year and I've noticed that this keeps the rubber blades from drying out and cracking. I've applied normal yellow Vaseline today and by tomorrow the wiper blade would have absorbed it. So no streaks.

Less is more here.

[antihero]

Winter is here and more snow means more guests. More guests means limited garage space. So the Gypsy has to brave the weather gods and stay out in the open in the snow. Here she is in her usual outdoor parking place.

Usual parking place


Outdoor parking

Speaking of snow -

1. The Scotch Brite glass cleaner is doing steller duty and is a must have to remove snow (note: snow not ice. For ice you will need a proper ice scraper). There are other cheaper versions but this has the best rubber blade (available in India) that lasts me around 2 winters.


2. If you're parking out in the snow it helps if you leave the wiper blades pulled up, not against the glass. Which reduces your snow build up.


3. Always remove the snow from the roof before starting out. If you do not chances are that it will fall on your windshield when you're braking and cause a total vision loss.


4. Another tip that my Swedish hosts taught me a long time ago was never to leave the parking brake on in cold weather. It may cause the brakes to stick even when you've released the hand brake. Which is not what you want.

For now the old girl still starts in a single (though longer) self, despite being parked outside in sub zero temps.

[antihero]

Not much to report except for an incredibly cold winter we've had this year. The thing that I miss most on the gypsy is winter tyres. We have been dealing with over 3 feet of snow for the past month or so. This means the MG410w can't make the final 50 metres (with a sharp bend, so can't use momentum) to my home which involves going up a very steep slope that requires 4L 1 gear even when there's no snow.
Other than that there's nothing much to report. The only interesting bits are a couple of knocks by other vehicles who braked on descents and skidded into my gypsy and an army truck that stalled and skidded back a couple of metres into my front bumper. The Mg410w still starts and stops pretty much normal. I have loaded in 8 people when they were stuck in their hotel due to a major snowfall. Have been asked to make tracks for numerous cars when they couldn't get out of snow and so on. The usual winter routine. The 4wd has been getting a lot of use. Tyre pressure is kept down to 18psi, which when coupled with fresh snow makes for the plushest rides I've ever experienced in a gypsy.

Have been recently talking to a few gypsy owners, about the ability to better handle snow (mostly young men with souped up 413s, with snorkels and 31" MT tyres) the first thing that they tell me is the the 410w is woefully underpowered and that I should invest in a 413 before I look at any mods.
Nevertheless, with my 8 years of snow driving experience - 4 in Scandinavia and 4 here in the Himalayas I don't think more power is the solution for better snow / ice handling. I think my Mg410w is limited by traction rather than power. More bhp/torque can help in a situation where my Gypsy had to push through snow that goes above its bumper height (which had never happened yet). In other situations (especially like a steep climb to my house) it's never failed to push through fresh snow. In such situations more power to the wheels will only make them spin faster and result in even less traction. Where I lose out is the traction my Michelin tyres seem to provide, while excellent in Sumner's they don't seem to latch on that well in snow and ice. No limited slip differential means once two wheels start spinning (front n rear) the gypsy isn't going anywhere. Then I have to resort to the good old rocking front and back to get it out of a large drift.

Hence the entire winter tyres / chains debate.
About winter tyres - since I can't seem to procure them in Chandigarh I'm thinking on investing in a pair of snow chains. Thule and Koenig come to mind when it comes to snow chains and I especially like the Thule quick fix solution. The chains go on n off in under a minute and have a self tensioning system.

https://youtu.be/Op06sHc-eDI

I haven't used snow chains in a while now and therefore if someone had experience in this department I would appreciate some help on finalizing which ones should I get next month from Europe?

[GeoffreyF]

Your inspiring posts convinced me to finally get myself an "Old Girl", a Govt Auction 96 (Mfg May 96) MG410, I had learned how to drive in a 91 Model which belong to my dad, and I never forgot my 1st love. 30+ years later, in October this year, I happened to be at a govt auction in Kanchipuram ( Tamil Nadu) with a friend and it broke my heart to see this white MG410W standing neglected in the yard, emotions got the better of me, heart prevailed over mind and the next thing you, I'm spending almost all my free time restoring this lovely lady to her former glory. Thank you for your beautiful pictures and stories.

[antihero]

Theres some bad news and some good news on this thread. The bad news first - I've sold the 1996 MG410W

Duh! Now that's confusing you may say. But here's what happened. The "old" 1996 gypsy registration was supposed to run out in 2020 June. Now that J&K is a Union Territory the chances of an update were far and few. My friend who is the RTO assured me that no such renewals have been made since August. So after much deliberation and many sleepless nights I decided to let the old girl go. Exchanged for a Maruti Ignis for someone in the family.

But before I sold it off and here's the good news - I've bought another 1996 MG410W. Only this one is registered till 2026 and has the original fibreglass hard top. So not all is lost and the saga continues.
All the updated parts from the "old" MG410W have been moved to the new Gypsy. The silencer, carb (because it had been serviced using the elusive SGP service kit), radiator, prop shafts ... the works.
I've thought long and hard on whether this thread should continue or a new "old" gypsy deserves a new thread - but I figure since its the same vintage(1996) with most of the same parts from the old MG410W this is still relevant. Let me know what you think.

Oh photos soon, once I have it washed after Lalajis garage visit.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by antihero

Theres some bad news and some good news on this thread. The bad news first - I've sold the 1996 MG410W

Duh! Now that's confusing you may say. But here's what happened. The "old" 1996 gypsy registration was supposed to run out in 2020 June. Now that J&K is a Union Territory the chances of an update were far and few.

But before I sold it off and here's the good news - I've bought another 1996 MG410W. Only this one is registered till 2026 and has the original fibreglass hard top. So not all is lost and the saga continues.

What a shame! Having to sell/scrap a perfectly fine vehicle only because of a ridiculous rule regarding the registration of a vehicle. Seems wasteful and decadent, especially in a poor country like India.

Couple of questions for you though:
1) How is it that one 96 vehicle is allowed to be registered until 26 while your old one was only until 20?
2) What did the buyer of your old jeep plan on doing with the vehicle or was it scrapped?
3) Does the RTO really hassle you even in such a remote place for registration documents?

Thanks.

[antihero]

Rant Alert!
Since its formation the NGT has been an organization that has been run by imbeciles. The 10/15 year rule is a ruse sponsored by car companies to sell us cars whether we want them or not. My Mg410W ran cleaner and better than most commercial vehicles and yet I am forced to get rid of it!
I would have never sold my sweet running MG410W if I had not found this equally good Gypsy (no rust and privately owned). In fact I had half a mind to keep the old one in the estate that I live in. But then I would have needed another gypsy for long rides and maintaining 2 vehicles (immaculately I may add) takes more time than i have right now. So the old girl had to go despite being in perfect running condition. Thankfully I was able to remove all worthy components from the old one and swap them out with this new one. I have to admit this new one with its factory hardtop has less rattles n squeaks while keeping the same mechanical drivetrain reliability courtesy the component transplant from the old one. The next long trip will be over Sach pass (4414m) and we will see if this is really as good as the old one.
Rant over

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

1) How is it that one 96 vehicle is allowed to be registered until 26 while your old one was only until 20?

The normal vehicle registration is 15 years on the original RC in J&K. Which means that a 1996 model is registered till 2011. There was a brief period in between when you could re-register the vehicle for another 15 if you paid the registration fee. By the time I had bought my gypsy re-registration was only applicable for 5 years which I could get done twice. The new gypsy has been reregistered during that grace period. So 15+15=30 years from 1996 which makes it valid till 2026.

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

2) What did the buyer of your old jeep plan on doing with the vehicle or was it scrapped?

Sold to maruti dealership who can still resell it (has over 6 months left on registration) but they will probably sell it as scrap in the kabari market.

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

3) Does the RTO really hassle you even in such a remote place for registration documents?
Thanks.

As you may have read in this thread I usually do one long trip in my gypsy every year. I've driven the old one from here to mumbai and back again, across spiti, ladakh and from here to pokhra (nepal) and back, to manipur and assam and back. So that's a lot of states/countries to pass through if you dont have even the RC

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by antihero

Rant Alert!
Since its formation the NGT has been an organization that has been run by imbeciles. The 10/15 year rule is a ruse sponsored by car companies to sell us cars whether we want them or not. My Mg410W ran cleaner and better than most commercial vehicles and yet I am forced to get rid of it!

I so agree with this point. This rule which is a result of automobile companies lobbying is hurting people like us.
I am die hard fan of old vehicles and own half dozen jeeps and half dozen bikes. Almost all of them are impeccably maintained and may be less polluting than commercial vehicles.
But now i am forced to think twice whether i want to keep them or slowly start selling them off one by one.
It hurts

[antihero]

Meet the new (old) Gypsy. Doing the usual winter trudge around our place. Early snowfall this year means it didn't get to spend enough time at Lalaji's workshop, so a complete engine checkup that starts from the carb and goes all the way to the valve clearances and distributer timing has been bypassed. It will happen in March now. For now we are hoping that the the organ transplant from the older Gypsy will help it trudge along this winter. The lack of a proper workshop visit and the last sunny week in the Himalayas means I have been doing little touches here and there. Working on little things like my winter 10W30 semi synthetic oil, new wiper blades (shredded), new battery clamp (missing), new battery terminal clamps (corroded), front bumper plastic ends (broken), new fog lamps (needed for snow), Tightening fibre hard top (loose), taking off the old LPG pipeline kit (not needed), tyre rotation and fixing an extra electrical fan in front of radiator (summer cooling).
This is the vehicle I have to live with (and hopefully love) for the next 5 years so it makes sense to spend this time getting to know it and its idiosyncrasies. Thankfully it hasn't thrown a scare yet.
Next major step will be to get a set of original jumpseats for the rear and fashion a plywood bed for my spring-summer touring. This is a good start (Gypsy Mod Pictures: Rear Seat & Bed).
I do like the original fibreglass hard top that comes with this gypsy, as it is better fitted, doesn't rust and rattles much less than my old aftermarket one. Nevertheless, the side door I do miss. It was extremely practical to get stuff in and out from behind the front seats. Another thing that I will probably miss are my 215 spec radials, this one comes shod in the original CEAT F78 crossply tyres. I'm yet to see a major performance difference (seat of pants) on the kind of bad roads that I drive on between the radials and the original spec tyres. Since they are just an year old and maybe have another 30,000 kilometres life left in them I will keep them on for now. I won't get anything in exchange anyway. Next major step will be to get the tyres balances and aligned...but more on that later

[antihero]

It might seem a bit strange on why I would go in for a second vintage MG410W when the chance to upgrade are available aplenty. I mean there is the new MG413 available in the used market. If I was to stretch my budget I could get a used Pajero, Thar, Nissan or maybe even a used petrol CRV. They can be had at throwaway prices in today’s 15 years use it or lose it Indian metro car scenario.

Now I own a Gypsy and a motorcycle - KTM 390 Duke. The motorcycle was my first purchase when I relocated back to India in 2015. I figured with the new wider roads and the new vehicles on Indian roads I would enjoy the 130 kph cruising speed of the 390. Yet after these 5 years, I’ve come to the conclusion that the safe speed on an Indian Road is still 80, which is the same back in 2007 when I left India. At that time I owned a Unicorn 150 and I still maintain that any 150cc+ air-cooled motorcycle is sufficient for the Indian highways, if you want to keep your sanity and your limbs intact. So what does this have to do with the Gypsy? Well, when it came to making a choice between the 390 and the Gypsy the 390 had to go. The 390 was an excellent bit of kit but my heart belongs to the Gypsy.

Maybe because it is the first 4 wheeler I’ve owned. Maybe it's the simplicity of the machine itself. I know I can take it apart and put it back together again with a set of basic hand tools. But I think for me it is the times and places we’ve been together in the old 9596 (Registration on the old Gypsy).

With my old 9596 it has never been about the destination but about the journey. I’ve pointed it south and ended in Mumbai with a huge week-long diversion through coastal Gujarat. Pointed it east and explored the seven sister states. North its been Spiti and numerous nooks and crannies in J&K. In all these journeys I’ve never been fast and this means I’ve seen more, stopped more often, gave people and animals lifts, and in general — explored more. The slow pace coupled with the option to take the unexplored road as opposed to the NH on my faster, flashier yet fragile KTM. So when it came to a choice the KTM had to go. This Gypsy, just a new shell, same vintage, same internals stays with me. Maybe I'm just getting old.

That being said I’m loving the possibility of a stock hardtop. The windscreen is normal which means I could get a new one straight from Maruti and replace it in a day. The side windows don’t leak after I’ve changed the rubber beading. The new girl needs some bodywork (scrapes and dents) and some repaint — but that’s about it. Maybe a new set of radials if I feel the need. But before the radials (which will cost me about 20k) I will take it over Sach Pass this summer and see if my theory about “this being the vehicle that irradiated cockroaches will drive after we’ve all gone away” — stays true.

New Mg410W getting there sporting new el' cheapo spot lamps

[antihero]

A sunny day after getting over 18 inches of snow and no grid electricity means no distractions. Thus, the perfect time to sit back in the sun, watch the snow melt and reminisce about the old 9596 (as I refer to the old MG410W now) and the new 4865.

With 9596 the got a lot smoother after I cleaned the air/fuel intake from the air filter to the throttle body and added new spark plugs and HT leads. This coupled with a carb rebuild, distributer and tappet clearances (two complete days with Lalaji) and fresh semi synthetic oil that @Vikram Arya had recommended was the tipping point. No it didn't turn the 9596 into a fire spitting monster, but it ran stress free and as smooth as any other car in my extended household.

Having gone over my driving logs (using an old android phone as my vehicle computer from day one) the stats for 9596 are as follows -
1. Old odometer reading 88968
2. Total kilometres I drove it 96547
3. Fuel Consumed 7841 litres
4. Average Mileage 12.3
5. Tyre change - once (Original Michelin AT changed for Aeolus AT)
6. Major repairs during this time - Timing Belt (preventive), 4 struts (front left was leaking), Broken leaf spring front right (after Nepal trip) replaced both in front. Battery changes 2 (local Hippo Brand), Knuckle kit changed once, Engine Head Gasket changed (oil seep), alternator rebuilt once, starter repaired once, carb refurbished using original SGP repair kit
7. Clutch & pressure plate - original
8. Engine - never opened
9. Breakdowns in field - 1. Mumbai. problem - moisture in ACC (time to rectify and fix - 30 minutes) 2. Manipur - Self starter would stick 2/3 times starter repaired in Jammu after Manipur trip (Time - half a day) 3. Samba. Battery electrolyte boiled as alternator was overcharging. Immediately added water. Let it cool down. Limped back to Jammu. Alternator cutoff fixed (Time - half a day)

In retrospective, there are three kinds of people who own a Gypsy. The bling lovers with their "balloon" tyres and more auxiliary lights than it takes to light up a music concert. The off roaders - with their 31" MT tyres and suspension articulation that puts a double jointed porn star to shame and finally people who "need" it for their daily lives. Most of these gypsies can be found in the Himalayas (petrol being a fuel of choice in cold places), living a daily grind on a diet of bad roads and winter snow. The last is a small yet very passionate community and I have to admit that I am biased as I fall in this category. For this small subset there's no substitute for the Gypsy and we are not looking for one because for us on bad roads and snow there is none that is more reliable. Expensive yes when it comes to fuel costs (I have spent around 5 lakh on fuel in the last 5 years/100,000 km) but then we save on maintenance when compared old DI powered Mahindras. Crde being relegated to highway cruising than real bad reading because of their lack of low end grunt. Reliability because 9596 has run for over 185,000 kilometres on an original engine and clutch plates. The repairs if you will notice were mostly electrical - starter, alternator, battery.

So now that I've run the 4865 for a month I have a fair idea of the work that will go in to make it mine. It is a long list but nothing that needs immediate attention. The engine is a bit sluggish compared to 9596 but I think nothing that the same clean-up and basic fuel spark aggregates won't fix. I'm kicking myself for not removing the old iridium plugs from 9596.
The drive train including the knuckle kit is in perfect condition. The new prop shafts got for the 9596 were moved over here and so was the new radiator and the electric 2nd cooling fan.
Here's my planned todo list of fixes before a couple of long trips this summer. Other than the repaint most of them should be finished by April.

[antihero]

I’ve decided we’ve reminisced enough about the old 9596. So let’s get on with the new MG410W.

My friend G has always harps about how these CEAT cross ply tyres are the perfect companion for the old MG410W. He reckons that the additional drag created by the 215 radials on the 9596 was neither good for the steering nor did it help that the puny F10A only put out a 45 bhp when new. Now after 25 years a lot of those Japanese horses may have bolted the stable plus we live and drive at a minimum of 2000 m above sea level, which means less dense air and hence even less power. “I have used these tyres in the mud and they perform as well as any AT radials you can buy”. His mechanical aptitude and 30 years of gypsy ownership is not something I take lightly, So I decided to put this theory to the test last week.

In between the bouts of winter snow accuweather says I have a clear weather day. I decide to use this day for a quick day trip to Dudu, about a 100 kilometres away. The road I knew was bad — because of the recent snowfall and half hearted widening attempts by the government, whose principal objective seems to be to turn an old beautiful road into slush. So perfect testing ground for the MG410W shod with almost new CEAT cross ply tyres.



The drive from Patnitop to Dudu is a 20 kilometre descent followed by a 80 kilometre ascent and then back n reverse. I started early and I was in no hurry, sightseeing and trudging along at my usual 40kmph on the downhill. The uphill was another story though. I thought the road was bad, But it was worse than I had imagined. Slush and mud all the way with shady corners that were still frozen. 2nd gear all the way for the last 30 kilometres.



Dudu is a dead end, which means that traffic is extremely limited on this road and hence the scenery is immensely pretty. Every turn revealed a prettier site than the one before it and soon I forgot what I was here for. I was picking up and dropping locals every few kilometres most of whom needed a lift till the next village / town. With 4-6 people in the back the traction was vastly improved, though I could seldom go above the 2nd gear. This also meant I was pampered with kahwa and snacks at every drop point. This is the beauty of interior Himalayas and Pahari people who reside in these lonesome places — less means yet a big heart.


Dudu town

It was only at 3:30 PM when the road ended just after Dudu and I realised that I had been running on autopilot, and that I hadn't given any thought to how the Gypsy should be running or how the tyres behaved. The bluetooth speaker that I usually carry with me as In Car Entertainment was lying unused. Autopilot is a good sign though — it means there was nothing that distracted me from my ride, which in turn means that the vehicle has become transparent in the quest for exploration and beautiful mountain views. Isn’t that what we all strive for with our 4wd? For the vehicle to be so reliable and an extension of our driving style so much so that it fades in the background and enables us to explore places without having to worry about slush, mud, ice and snow.



I knew it would get dark by the time I would get back so that also meant I would get to try my relay lights with Philips 90/100 bulbs and the newly installed yellow spot-lights.

At the end I made it back after dark, the lights and tyres performed admirably. The light I didn't doubt, the tyres pleasantly surprised me. Through shin deep mud and slush I could sail through without any loss of traction. In the mud they do tend to fishtail more than the radials I’m used to. I think this is due to their narrow(er) width and smaller contact patch but nothing that can’t be controlled or is perplexing. Nowhere did I need to use the 4L but the 4H was extremely helpful through the frozen corners and the mud slushes especially when coming downhill. I’m not sure if this is due to the fact that these tyres are new and hence more supple. Becuase i’ve always driven gypsies shod with CEAT tyres that are way past their life and I’ve always believed them to be crappy. On a metalled road these CEAT tyres offer much less grip and comfort compared to say my ex-Michelins but on bad Himalayan roads (which we encounter on this part of the country) I do not see any performance difference yet. These CEAT tyres will be an interesting long term experiment.

I reach home by around 7, park, pat the dashboard (as I’m known to) and promise the Gypsy that I will give it a good pressure wash cleanup the next day. Little do I know when I would wake up tomorrow this is the scene that would greet me. Yes another 18 inches of snow…