[dhiman]

What kind of problems is one likely to face with a carb gypsy at high altitudes? Then how do the Army use them?

Originally Posted by ladak.imran

....and from what I hear, high altitude is something a carb gypsy doesn't agree with too well.

[predatorwheelz]

Thank you guys, for your suggestions and support. Project Nomad had been conceptualized about 3-4 months back, and everyday I'm getting more and more serious about it. Keep pouring in your suggestions.

Originally Posted by ladak.imran

First off, you;ve probably thought of this, but i'll mention it anyway - once you purchase a brand new gypsy, the warranty is probably going to go bust, if you carry out the mods you have in mind.
Nonetheless, I agree, that it would be more reliable, than an ex-army.

I've thought of this point. Though honestly, warranty doesnt matter. Even with change in suspension, I can coax Maruti service centers to honor the engine warranty atleast. If not, there are enough competent garages now doing great jobs on Esteem MPFi engines.

Originally Posted by ladak.imran

Powersteering is not a necessity, unless you want to use this as your daily drive in congested city roads.. That too, would be a luxury in my opinion.
If you do want to put one in anyway, then I suppose one of the better options, would be to source a used Suzuki Jimny powersteering from Dubai - I hear you get them really cheap there, and they'll be the best fit - If I'm not mistaken.

PS is really an insurance I'm taking. Our family consists of 4 people, and all of us drive. The other 3 people are so used to the PS regime, it will be difficult to get them adjusted to manual steering once again. Plus the fact that outside automotive persuasions, I'm a fairly normal bloke who leads a boring city life for 85 pct of the year, and so will Nomad.

Originally Posted by ladak.imran

I suggest you try to find gypsies for sale all around the country. Goa seems to have quite a few, if I'm not mistaken.

Ex-army: Get into this, only if you're willing to spend a considerable amount of time (& money) to restore the vehicle!

Anyway, if I hear of a 2nd hand for sale, I'll keep you in mind!

There are 2 problems with civilian Gypsys, which you'd probably agree with me. The few cars that see civilian purchase generally meet 2 fates. Either they are modded out to the extreme and used as boulevard cruisers (which means I'll be saddled with tons of stuff I don't need) or used for hardcore OTRs/farm use (in which case the car is as worn out as an army Gypsy anyway and I'm still having to pay 2-3 times the price of one).

But anyway, if you do manage to find a decent condition civilian vehicle, do give me a buzz.

Originally Posted by ladak.imran

P.S. - How much for these particular gas filled dampers, any idea?

I think they cost about 1200 per piece, will confirm and let you know.

Originally Posted by 4x4 loaded

Nice write up. Could you tell me where to find these gas filled dampers? You said they are custom made..are they reliable? How much they cost?

I think they cost about 1200 per piece. I'm yet to go and talk to this person myself, will post his contact details as soon as I'm convinced of the quality of the offering.

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Mechanicals: As far as mechanical mods are concerned, a gypsy is literally bullet proof and would not need any mechanical mods for highway cruising. So, if you get a well maintained Gypsy, you don't have to worry about the mechanicals

Off-Road Capability: A stock gypsy will go anywhere (YES ANYWHERE) of the places that you intend for use. No need for ANY modification for off-road capabilities

Thank you Khan Bhai, a lot of useful suggestions. I have not thought of any mechanical mods (either for highway cruising or off road) outside the CFLs and shocks. For me too, reliability is paramount, and I'm convinced (with my brief stint) that the Gypsy is fairly strong as it is, to require any mechanical mods. The CFLs and shocks are from a comfort viewpoint.

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

I doubt if you can get a good mpfi in that price range. I don't think even the King Carbs would come in that price

That budget is for the ex-army Gypsys. Carb Kings are easily available for 1L both at Mayapuri and Panagadh. Thats why I projected 25-30pct higher for a MPFI.

For a civilian car, the budget would have to be atleast double.

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

The rear costs 10K and the front ones 12K. Go ONLY for the rear one as the front ones are NOT ok as YET. There are issues with the front CFL's and they are taking a hell lot of time in sorting that out. I have the CFL's on front and I am thinking of going back to metal leafs in the front.

Yeah, go for better shocks. would for sure help. See if you can get Monroe gas filled shocks. they are good and VFM -- not as expensive as other brands

I apologize for mixing up the prices. As for the front CFLs, this view seems to be echoed by all users. Now it looks better that I start with the rear CFLs only. Will also save me 12K.

Can you help me with the tech specs (size, type etc) of the shock required in the Gypsy? Or give me URLs of the same?

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

215/75 is GOOD enough. Both Yoko & Mich are good tyres but most people feel that the sidewalls of Yoko are stronger than Mich but the comfort of Mich is better than Yoko. Choose anyone and you couldn't go wrong either way.

Here is my take:

DON'T put alloys in place of discs of you plan long cruises all over india. The steel wheels are good and strong and can be repaired easily in case of damage.

I'll probably have to go with Yokos. The Latitudes are not available off the shelf in Kolkata, and I've been quoted 500 bucks more per tyre (than the Yokos). Unless there's a compelling reason to stick to the Michs, Yokos it is.

As for the alloys, besides looks, don't you think they're a better fit with the tubeless tyres? Plus for car use at least, I find the alloys more hardy in taking everyday knocks arising out of my "scruff-of-the-neck" style driving. Awaiting your comments on this one.

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

DO replace the front seats at first opportunity. That could be a weak link in your comfort factor, even after you have dome all the mods for comfort. If not changing seats then get good cushioning & lumbar support done on existing seats. OE seats are PATHETIC and will leave you fatigued even after a couple hours of highway driving

I was considering Sparco/Recaro front seats, but later dropped the idea as they're too expensive. Any suggestions on OEM seats? How about Safari seats? Also the safari rear bench maybe?

Originally Posted by Gypsy-Boy

Predatorz
Ex-Army gypsy's will all be carb atleast till 2011. This is because they started getting MPFI versions only from 2003 and they dispose their vehicles after 7 years.

Eh? I was told by some that army got MPFi in 2002 and they will land up after 7 years, so late 2009.

Originally Posted by Gypsy-Boy

I would suggest that you opt for a brand new soft top gypsy. You can make a top as per your specs then (the price difference between the HT and ST is about ~60K).

As for the HT, I was thinking of using the stock hard top only until Ayan suggested that panoramic glass top (see the rendering).

Quite frankly, the top is the least of my priorities right now. Though it looks nice in flesh, but I'll have to spend atleast 30K in getting something like that done. Plus the risk of it turning into a shoddy job.

Originally Posted by Gypsy-Boy

One more point to keep in mind - Though all parts for a Gypsy are available most parts are not off the shelf - you have to order and wait for the part to arrive!!!

Agreed. Its a necessary evil I'll have to live with.

Originally Posted by Gypsy-Boy

The main question you have to answer is whether you have the time to test a second hand vehicle in a myriad of conditions prior to your long journeys, to ensure that all is working as it should??
(please keep in mind that most Gypsy owners have removed the front drive shaft to increase mileage!!)

Since you are planning long drives which includes on and off roading, My humble suggestion would be to buy a new vehicle.

Waiting for your build up thread now

Cheers
GB

Thats an excellent point GB, something I've thought about a lot. A second hand vehicle, that too an off-roader, will be compromised, either by nature of its use, or abuse, done by the previous owner. And its really not possible to test a car after doing it up, unless you do put it to the grind.

But the counterpoint to that is the lack of money. The difference in price of a army and new vehicle is atleast 4 L. Not something that is readily disposable.

Lets see. For now, both options are open.

Originally Posted by annu0706

hey predatorwheelz a very nice n sensible writeup indeed.
would be looking up this thread very closely as i'm smelling a very good n wise project coming up.
as i noticed your expectation fore a used mpfi was 1.25 to 1.3L
bro as far as i've searched n surveyed an mpfi is a sellers product. i saw an mpfi 2001 model at Bhopal a few days ago which was coated 2.65L

Thank you for the compliments. As I've clarified with khan bhai, the quoted budget is for an army vehicle. For civilian vehicles the budget would be double.

Originally Posted by tharakan9

I am posting the photos of the gypsy i was talking about

Hey thats a great idea. Leaving aside the horrible front end, the car does look very much like our rendering..

Is it for sale?

Originally Posted by Rossi

4. Replace the headlamps with new stock headlamp(original Lucas glass ones) with the right wires cut-outs & 100/130 bulbs & compare them with the Rallye 1000's

Thank you for all the suggestions, Rossi. As for the lights, one problem I face with the Verna is that the reflectors tend to fog up if higher wattage bulbs are used. The Gypsy being tech from 2 decades ago, wouldn't the same problem manifest itself?

Originally Posted by COUGAR

THe GYpsy is not the best long distance tourer. But to get into many forests and explore them thoroughly, you definitely need a light 4WD and that is where the Gypsy comes in.

In addition to all that you have mentioned, i would add a good pair of driver and nav seats: the stock Gypsy seats are a b**tch on long drives.

Thank you cougar. Any good seats you would suggest?

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

I have a question: Why not hire a gypsy when you need it? This is alot of pain for little incremental value.

Mainly because a Gypsy is not available for hire in every place we visit. Do you think we would have found a gypsy for hire in Phansad?

The GYpsy is uncomfortable on long drives for a number of reasons. a) the rock-hard suspension and b) the seats.

While I am uncomfortable with the idea of changing the suspension, I am getting my existing seats refurbished with extra layers of foam/cushioning. and PS: My gypsy now has a sofa-cum bed in the rear, borrowed from a Maruti 800, comfortable enough for 3 to sit in the day and folds down for 2 to sleep at night!

Now try doin that with one your those Swift type toys...

[Sathyagith]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

Thank you for all the suggestions, Rossi. As for the lights, one problem I face with the Verna is that the reflectors tend to fog up if higher wattage bulbs are used. The Gypsy being tech from 2 decades ago, wouldn't the same problem manifest itself?

The problem of the reflectors fogging in all the new cars on using higher wattage bulbs is because of plastic which can't take the heat buildup of the 100/90W lighting.

Unlike what was available in Amby's,fiat's and Gypsies which were of glass cover. You can easily go for an lighting upgrade in the older types of headlights provided you use the right wiring relay and cutouts.

I had a ISUZU Trooper (a 1984 model) on which I had replaced a HELLA H4 series headlamp unit and upgrade to 100W/90W with the necessary relay / cutouts. I had no issues with the headlight for the next 4~5 years till I sold it.

rgds
-Sathya

[annu0706]

Originally Posted by tharakan9

I am posting the photos of the gypsy i was talking about

hi tharakan9 can you tell me where did your cousin got those side view mirrors from? also are the indicators functional, as am also looking for something similar.

[bonobashi]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

Thank you guys, for your suggestions and support. Project Nomad had been conceptualized about 3-4 months back, and everyday I'm getting more and more serious about it. Keep pouring in your suggestions.

Many of us have obviously been trying to square the circle of combining long-distance travel with some light to medium off-roading capability, and wondering what to do about the differences between the two types of design which come out.

Your first post was an excellent summing up. It assumes, however, that our current market situation, with two very low-cost off-roaders which cannot really travel long-distance, aren't cruisers, in other words, and several others which start at 8 lakhs or more and go on all the way into the just-below-a-crore range, will continue.

What we are actually looking for, I think, is a vehicle in the range of Rs. 5 lakhs, with decent cruising ability, probably diesel, for that reason, and decent, not outstanding, off-roading capability. Enough, in fact, to tackle Gorumara forest or a wild and woolly tea garden.

They used to sell the Sumo with 4WD (cf., the Safed Haathi), and that would have been just right. They still sell the 207 with 4WD, but that may be a trifle rough on long drives, and may be too plebeian; chuntering about in one may send eyebrows up even in the family. Unfortunately the cheapest combination cruiser and off-roader (a ferociously over-specced off-roader at that) comes in at Rs. 8 lakhs for an air-conditioned version. I've watched friends coping with a second hand version they bought recently, and they are doing handstands: it suits them and meets both sets of objectives perfectly.

That leaves just two more options: one is the Premier Rio. Unfortunately, until there is at least six months or so of actual use in Indian conditions, and coping with Indian logistics to get spares, it may be a risk. Six months later, your decisions might be strongly influenced by the success or failure of this vehicle.

The other is the Ford mini-SUV code B515, but that is too far away, late 2011 by some reports.

Personally, a Gypsy ride is too rough for my aging bones; at the same time, I hope for the best, and hope that your mods will prove effective.

At this point, I may as well disclose that i shall be angling shamelessly for a test-drive to test out the ameliorative efffects of the mods for myself.

Good luck for Project Nomad!

[diesel_maniac]

Hi Predator Wheels !!

Your write up sums up the needs and confusion of a majority of Indian travel and motor enthusiasts. It was a pleasure to read it. I am hooked to your thread and will be waiting for the developments on your end, as I have also contemplated about owning and modding a Gypsy for my daily use and long distance travel usage.

Hoping to see your dream come to life soon !! Wish you all the best for Project Nomad !!

[tharakan9]

Originally Posted by annu0706

hi tharakan9 can you tell me where did your cousin got those side view mirrors from? also are the indicators functional, as am also looking for something similar.

He got it from Coimbatore

[arjunrudra]

Sounds interesting all the best for your project.

[ladak.imran]

Hi Dhiman - Good question! This hadn't crossed my mind.. maybe the guru's can help us out with this one.

Based on what I've read from various gypsy threads and travelogues on Team-BHP, when you're traveling in a carb gypsy at high altitudes, every few 100 meters, you need to open up the carburetor and make minor adjustments (what adjustments, i dont know ) to get optimum performance..

My guess would be that the army people either travel in a fixed vehicle, in a specified area (a set circumference, maybe) and so they wouldn't need to keep making adjustments, or else they may simply be employing the 'kaam chalao' attitude.

I do not have too much knowledge on this subject, so if anyone else can clarify, that'd be great!

Once again, good question!!

Originally Posted by dhiman

What kind of problems is one likely to face with a carb gypsy at high altitudes? Then how do the Army use them?

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by ladak.imran

Based on what I've read from various gypsy threads and travelogues on Team-BHP, when you're traveling in a carb gypsy at high altitudes, every few 100 meters, you need to open up the carburetor and make minor adjustments (what adjustments, i dont know ) to get optimum performance..

every 100 meters? not really!

I heard the same sort of thing when i first did ladakh by bike 5 years back. We didnt really bother with carb adjustments and were none the worse for it!

Same thing with the Gypsy. from what i was advised earlier this year, we should stop to make MINOR adjustments for every gain of 3000 feet if at all. And this will happen twice on the first day and never after that! I know people who went there on carb gypsies, mg410's at that, and never bothered with any of this and yet did just fine!

granny's tales i think!

[Gypsy-Boy]

Originally Posted by starter

Dear Gypsy-Boy,
I just purchased a hard top Gypsy. The price difference between hard top and soft top is only about 30K.
Cheers,
Deepak

My bad ... had spoken to some dealers who werent sure when I bought my Gypsy.

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Do critical parts take time to arrive? or is it those parts which are typically called dead items by the service centres, I mean the parts which rarely go wrong on the vehicle?

These "dead items" as they are called are also subject to stress and fatigue. And as you have said, they RARELY go wrong - but when they do they cause lots of headaches.

Originally Posted by Sathyagith

The problem of the reflectors fogging in all the new cars on using higher wattage bulbs is because of plastic which can't take the heat buildup of the 100/90W lighting.

Unlike what was available in Amby's,fiat's and Gypsies which were of glass cover. You can easily go for an lighting upgrade in the older types of headlights provided you use the right wiring relay and cutouts.

I had a ISUZU Trooper (a 1984 model) on which I had replaced a HELLA H4 series headlamp unit and upgrade to 100W/90W with the necessary relay / cutouts. I had no issues with the headlight for the next 4~5 years till I sold it.

rgds
-Sathya

Sathya
The plastic headlight units very rarely have problems with the 100/90 lighting. They have major problems with the 130/100 lights.
I am using 100/90 bulbs on my swift / Alto / Xing, the longest being ~5 years without any problem. One of my friends had put 130/100 in his alto at the same time that I put 100/90 - He had to change his headlight unit after about a year of use!!

But considering Predatorz usage, a set of additional lights (lightforce / Roolights) would be a welcome and useful addition.

[Kandisa]

As few have already shared, this is probably the dream of many to have a decent moderately priced reliable vehicle which can serve the purpose of both highway cruising and nominal off-roading with standard service back-ups. With a better seat, AC and the CFL to enhance the comfort level, a gypsy is probably the best bet. If only maruti could provide a factory fitted AC which doesn't void the warranty!

Originally Posted by COUGAR

....I am getting my existing seats refurbished with extra layers of foam/cushioning. and PS: My gypsy now has a sofa-cum bed in the rear, borrowed from a Maruti 800, comfortable enough for 3 to sit in the day and folds down for 2 to sleep at night!...

That sounds really tempting. Can you post some pictures of the rear set-up if you have any.

[ladak.imran]

When you buy a new gypsy, the dealer does give you this option - they say they'll put in the blower and condenser of your choice (they must be available off the shelf, obv), and that it won't affect the warranty!

Originally Posted by Kandisa

If only maruti could provide a factory fitted AC which doesn't void the warranty!

@Cougar: Haha - in retrospect, every couple of 100 metres does sound odder than the usual tale!

Thanks for clearing that up..

[Kandisa]

Originally Posted by ladak.imran

When you buy a new gypsy, the dealer does give you this option - they say they'll put in the blower and condenser of your choice (they must be available off the shelf, obv), and that it won't affect the warranty!...

Great, so that means on paying around 25K extra (thats more or less the price i 've heard for an AC installation in MASS with brand new parts) one can get an AC fitted gypsy without touching any warranty issues? Just want to re-confirm because i heard something different earlier.