[jinu_joseph]

Originally Posted by navin

I use a DSP in 2 of out my 3 cars. My wife's Honda City has the Alpine 650 and my Camry has the Audison Bit 10. My mom does not need a DSP as she has an Alpine 9887 in her car which has TA.

if you want to retain stock looks, steering wheel controls etc.. the DSP is a great option.

Is time alignment the reason for the DSP in your cars or you wanted to retain Stock looks and steering controls? Is time alignment really that good. Sorry haven't experienced or heard it. I know the theory behind it but then theory and actually listening to it are two poles apart.

In my case if i decide to go with the Philadelphia 835 I will still retain the stock looks and steering wheel controls, since this is a straight replacement for the stock unit.

Plus the world seems divided on the advantages of a DSP. One popular opinion being that the raw preamp ouput from a good after market HU will be much better that Speaker level inputs that are converted through a DSP to preamp outputs. Do you agree with this.

So then the only advantage a DSP would have over the Blaupunkt Philadephia 835 would be TA.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

... the Blaupunkt PNP adapter cable only extracts this data and sends it to the amplifier. ...

Hello, those are straight and simple analog signals, not data! There are 4 shielded coaxial cables for carrying the FL, FR, RL and RR music signal to the amp. Semantics, but that cable is a passive wire set which just connects an output to an input - it has no other abilities.

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

... I was assuming that it would also use the CANBUS and other signals and do something with that, but a look at the amplifier end of the cable shows that those are dead ends and not used. Was a bit disappointed to see this. ...

Commisserations - self-inflicted disappointment due to over-expectation! What made you expect that?

Also, what other signals did you expect to be in the interface between the HU and the Amp? There is a Remote Turn On signal, of course, which switches the Amp on only when the HU is ready (e.g. when starting the car).

[jinu_joseph]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

:
Also, what other signals did you expect to be in the interface between the HU and the Amp? There is a Remote Turn On signal, of course, which switches the Amp on only when the HU is ready (e.g. when starting the car).

With the amount of hype on blaupunkt P2P amplifiers, the only one compatible with Skoda and all that.. i assumed that the amps would also have some kind of control through CANBUS.

But true this is self-inflicted disappointment

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

With the amount of hype on blaupunkt P2P amplifiers, the only one compatible with Skoda and all that.. i assumed that the amps would also have some kind of control through CANBUS. ...

If you read up on CAN Bus and it's uses, you will understand why the expectation was wrong.

And only those who don't know the why's propagate the hype. The "Plug and Play" aspect, which is quite simply connecting an amplifier without having to disturb any other connection in a car, is a significant advantage both to installers / users (savings in time and effort), as well as the manufacturers - who are saved the headache of worrying about the car going up in smoke by wrong connections. The compatibility is with the standardized physical and logical connections Bosch / Blaupunkt / Philips (Grundig) and other European and American OE HU manufacturers use on the equipment, and the connectors provided in the harness by the car manufacturer (connection to Accessory fuse, Ignition Switch and speakers etc.). For any car manufacturer, following that standardization ensures safety.

As opposed to this, think of what will happen if a barely literate installer takes an HU and hacks through the loom of the harness to connect wires since he thinks that is the shortest method. For him ignorance is bliss. For the car company, that ignorance is usually a court case just around the corner. And everyone is scared of lawyers, right?

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

With the amount of hype on blaupunkt P2P amplifiers, the only one compatible with Skoda and all that.. i assumed that the amps would also have some kind of control through CANBUS.

But true this is self-inflicted disappointment

The Blaupunkt Philadelphia has 3 pre amps, so you can use pretty much any amplifier, no need to only use Blaupunkt PNP or anything like that. Those are for OE HUs which don't have pre amps like the one in the Fiat Punto/Linea.

[ramie2400]

@jinu_joseph,after going thru the entire post all i can see is your just getting confused,you have not stated what budget ICE setup your looking to Install,by the posts I can figure out you'll end up spending 2L+

Would recommend try and audition cars equiped with processors,not all cars with DSPs sounds good because of wrong EQ/Crossover/TA tuning,Ideally it is suggested to tune it via RTA.

New Skoda Superb is one of the most easiest cars to ICE it up not much hassles but only time consuming job.

Ramie

[jinu_joseph]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

The Blaupunkt Philadelphia has 3 pre amps, so you can use pretty much any amplifier, no need to only use Blaupunkt PNP or anything like that. Those are for OE HUs which don't have pre amps like the one in the Fiat Punto/Linea.

Was considering the PNP amps only if i was sticking to the stock HU and not buying the Philadelphia 835 and use that money for better amps and speakers.

Originally Posted by ramie2400

Would recommend try and audition cars equiped with processors,not all cars with DSPs sounds good because of wrong EQ/Crossover/TA tuning,Ideally it is suggested to tune it via RTA.

New Skoda Superb is one of the most easiest cars to ICE it up not much hassles but only time consuming job.

Ramie

you are correct, i am totally confused currently. My budget is about a lakh. Unfortunately i don't have a venue to go and audition cars equipped with TA or DSP or other gadgets. Once Ajay is back I will ask him if he has any on which i can hear a demo of the TA feature.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

you are correct, i am totally confused currently. My budget is about a lakh. Unfortunately i don't have a venue to go and audition cars equipped with TA or DSP or other gadgets. Once Ajay is back I will ask him if he has any on which i can hear a demo of the TA feature.

You can even have a word with Ramie, he is in the business. Except his store is in North Mumbai, while Ajay is in South Mumbai.

[ramie2400]

Very few cars in Mumbai are running processor Setups from Stock Integration,reason behind people can only sell but cannot tune it.Would suggest depending upon the taste of music you can get a setup for yourself,almost half of your budget will be eaten up by the processor,rest half you cannot expect to get good audio gear configuration Sir the ICE bug have bitten you.

Ramie

[jinu_joseph]

Originally Posted by ramie2400

Very few cars in Mumbai are running processor Setups from Stock Integration,reason behind people can only sell but cannot tune it.Would suggest depending upon the taste of music you can get a setup for yourself,almost half of your budget will be eaten up by the processor,rest half you cannot expect to get good audio gear configuration Sir the ICE bug have bitten you.

Ramie

agree the ice bug has chewed me out. But still what setup would you recommend. I listen to everything from Kishore Kumar to Scorpions, depending on the mood. But i like my music clean, clear and the bass punchy. A good example of punchy bass is when you play billie jean by MJ, the opening beats. Each beat should hit you like a punch in the gut. I am sorry but i dont know the technical term for this. Another good song to demo this is the Holiday by scorpions. I dont like the boomy bass.

But the key requirement to my install is completely hidden components. They cannot be visible in the open or in the boot. The Sub also has to be enclosed in the side pocket of the boot without compromising the primary boot space and with asthetic fibreglass moulding.

I initially thought of putting the amp under the front passenger seat but when i looked under there it was already occupied by some other electronics (guess its the electronic seat controls). So right now still looking for a place for the amp.

[Bass&Trouble]

The one single thing that most disappoints you seems to be the bass (or lack thereof). I think you should just add a subwoofer, and subwoofer amp obviously to your setup as the first step and leave it at that if you're content with the results. Another option - one step higher - without having to spend significantly more would be to get a sub plus good front comps, and use a 4 channel amp to power it all.

[jinu_joseph]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

The one single thing that most disappoints you seems to be the bass (or lack thereof). I think you should just add a subwoofer, and subwoofer amp obviously to your setup as the first step and leave it at that if you're content with the results. Another option - one step higher - without having to spend significantly more would be to get a sub plus good front comps, and use a 4 channel amp to power it all.

Dont you need a dsp to recreate the pre-speaker level outputs?

What amps/comps do you suggest. I spoke to the Blaupunkt sales rep and the THA 555 is not available anymore as the company stopped production quite some time back.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

Dont you need a dsp to recreate the pre-speaker level outputs? ...

No - it is not about that. OE HUs put a bias to suit OE speakers, usually a small bass boost and treble attenuation. Some DSPs remove that bias (it is a step that is carried out at setup). The LOC will faithfully carry the biased signal at the speaker outputs, if that is what you were doubting.

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

... I spoke to the Blaupunkt sales rep ...

Not sure whether you spoke to someone who represents Blaupunkt. THA555 is still very much in production - check this link. Blau is in the process of renewing / refreshing / establishing relationships in India, since they are no longer a Bosch company.

[jinu_joseph]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

No - it is not about that. OE HUs put a bias to suit OE speakers, usually a small bass boost and treble attenuation. Some DSPs remove that bias (it is a step that is carried out at setup). The LOC will faithfully carry the biased signal at the speaker outputs, if that is what you were doubting.

Sorry i dont follow. Isnt this bias a bad thing when connecting a different Amp. Wont the bias also get amplified ?

Not sure whether you spoke to someone who represents Blaupunkt. THA555 is still very much in production - check this link. Blau is in the process of renewing / refreshing / establishing relationships in India, since they are no longer a Bosch company.

I spoke to Ketan Sampat Sales manager Blaupunkt Mumbai. He said its been out of production for over 2 years and further that blaupunkt does not have any 5 Channel amp in production. And even if i get it in the open market it will not be covered by any warranty. I searched the net and found quite a few links where the TGA555 is tagged as discontinued both in the US and UK (Cutchfield being one of them).

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

Sorry i dont follow. Isnt this bias a bad thing when connecting a different Amp. Wont the bias also get amplified ? ...

Yes, it will - but it can be nullified by nudging the EQ settings. Using a DSP is a more accurate method to remove it, but not that there is no work around.

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

... quite a few links where the TGA555 is tagged as discontinued ...

The link that I gave was of the current Blaupunkt Germany website (it was in German, if you notice). They should know, shouldn't they?