what's the difference between a grey market purchase and a B&W purchase

speedzak · 28th August 2006, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas

Grey one can be smuggled products too right?

It will be smuggled. ie. Not brought in the right way.

But there're some authorised dealers who'll smuggle the products and sell you for the full prices including taxes. And they'll give you bill and warranty too (both defenitely fake). As they know that the product is not cheap and will last for atleast a year without running into problems. Even if it does, they'll just give you a flat exchange.
All this action will happen without the authorised distributor/importer not knowing a thingy!

The benefit the dealer makes is, He'll get the product for smuggled prices and will sell it for the high MRP. The difference may run to Rs. 10,000 or more sometimes. Now what do you say about that??

santosh.s · 28th August 2006, 16:32

yes, when the story is told by a person selling them in B&W, you must take it with a pinch (or rather a spoon) of salt!

Just curious, if the story is right then what will those questionable assemblers do with original parts? I mean can we expect them to be a reliable source for high quality spares for anybody... who will buy that or how else will they make use of it?

esteem_lover · 28th August 2006, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas

Grey one can be smuggled products too right?

how else is it grey ?

grey = original, smuggled (Will be sold w/o bill & warranty)

Bill & Warranty = original , imported through the right channels, paying all taxes & accounted for with customs, excise, sales tax, income tax.

Duplicate = look alike, made in india (Never ever buy)

navin · 28th August 2006, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedzak

The benefit the dealer makes is, He'll get the product for smuggled prices and will sell it for the high MRP. The difference may run to Rs. 10,000 or more sometimes. Now what do you say about that??

Not much one can do about this but stick to reputed dealers. Ask friends for references. Till our judicial system improves this will continue.

jinu_joseph · 28th August 2006, 16:49

I went to 4 car audio shops (only one of them was the auth dealer for Pioneer, JBL, Alpine, etc). All were in agreement about one thing... Pioneers grey units are assembled in India (parts are shipped in as spare parts to avoid duties and taxes and then assembled here) and white units are assembled in various pioneer factories.

The only additional part added by the auth dealer was the swithcing of original with duplicate parts and the thing about quality control.

jinu_joseph · 28th August 2006, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedzak

But there're some authorised dealers who'll smuggle the products and sell you for the full prices including taxes. And they'll give you bill and warranty too (both defenitely fake).

I think we can, when you get the warranty card, you also get the Companys copy and in case of Pioneer you also get the one year theft insurance forms, which you have to mail to Pioneer. I am sure that they will get back to you if the warranty is a fake.

manson · 28th August 2006, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvjascha

God forbid, if that grey stuff had to go kaput! To gaya na 9K paani mein!

then go and buy another cheaper panel for 6k you saved from the grey market.

manson.

speedzak · 28th August 2006, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

I think we can, when you get the warranty card, you also get the Companys copy and in case of Pioneer you also get the one year theft insurance forms, which you have to mail to Pioneer. I am sure that they will get back to you if the warranty is a fake.

Not many companies follow this system or many dealers will give you papers for the same.

esteem_lover · 28th August 2006, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

I went to 4 car audio shops (only one of them was the auth dealer for Pioneer, JBL, Alpine, etc). All were in agreement about one thing... Pioneers grey units are assembled in India (parts are shipped in as spare parts to avoid duties and taxes and then assembled here) and white units are assembled in various pioneer factories.

The only additional part added by the auth dealer was the swithcing of original with duplicate parts and the thing about quality control.

are u saying that spare parts are free from duties or charged less duties compared to assembled units ??

and is pioneer assembled here in india ?

jinu_joseph · 28th August 2006, 17:38

Spare parts are charged much less duties and taxes as compared to and imported complete unit.

All white pioneer units are imported and not assembled in India. The grey ones are.

Technocrat · 28th August 2006, 17:52

Well most of the times(not always) I avoid Grey but when it comes to Pioneer it will take me really long time before I would get a Pio in B&W.... The reason is clear I have so far seen at least 7-10 HU(cassetes & CD players) across my family & friends (all in grey) in the past 6-7 years & none of them ever reported any problems under toughest of the road & dust conditions

Me got a 5750 for 7.4k when I think its MRP was around 13k-14k with B&W.

esteem_lover · 28th August 2006, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

Spare parts are charged much less duties and taxes as compared to and imported complete unit.

All white pioneer units are imported and not assembled in India. The grey ones are.

that is news to me. and i always thought that these guys were importing these stuff without payment of duty. but then,if there is some sort of duties paid on these, how come they are so much cheaper than the white ones ?

Sam Kapasi · 28th August 2006, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

White units are assembled at Pioneer factories under strict quality control and then imported into India. Grey peices on the other hand are assembled in India in questionable conditions. They are brought into india as spareparts in parts and pieces and then the parts are put together to form the whole unit.

True, it's called SKD. The units are purchased as a whole from Pioneer corporation. The units are then de-kitted. (This is the correct word for the disassembly of a perfectly working unit)
There are organisations/factories around the world that specialise in de-kitting, doing it quite well and repacking each indicidual pcb, body part etc and shipping into countries where duties on spare parts is lower than a whole product. Such as India. However, I must add that the difference in the duties is no longer what it used to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

in many cases, the assemblers replace the original lens and even some other original components with cheap Chinese ones.

This is untrue. If an entire unit is purchased and de-kitted, the assembly is made with the same spares. Buying a lens assembly (no matter how cheap) would only increase the cost. The market for spare lenses is not that big.
Secondly, all original lens assemblys are chinese to begin off with.

ritik123 · 28th August 2006, 19:52

Is this to say there isnt much of a point paying the premium demanded by an authorised dealer?.

s0uljah · 28th August 2006, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

This is untrue. If an entire unit is purchased and de-kitted, the assembly is made with the same spares. Buying a lens assembly (no matter how cheap) would only increase the cost. The market for spare lenses is not that big.
Secondly, all original lens assemblys are chinese to begin off with.

Thanks for clearing that up!

28th August 2006, 16:32	#62
santosh.s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,077 Thanked: 70 Times View My Garage	yes, when the story is told by a person selling them in B&W, you must take it with a pinch (or rather a spoon) of salt! Just curious, if the story is right then what will those questionable assemblers do with original parts? I mean can we expect them to be a reliable source for high quality spares for anybody... who will buy that or how else will they make use of it?
	() Thanks

28th August 2006, 16:49	#65
jinu_joseph BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 421 Thanked: 188 Times	I went to 4 car audio shops (only one of them was the auth dealer for Pioneer, JBL, Alpine, etc). All were in agreement about one thing... Pioneers grey units are assembled in India (parts are shipped in as spare parts to avoid duties and taxes and then assembled here) and white units are assembled in various pioneer factories. The only additional part added by the auth dealer was the swithcing of original with duplicate parts and the thing about quality control.
	() Thanks

28th August 2006, 17:38	#70
jinu_joseph BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 421 Thanked: 188 Times	Spare parts are charged much less duties and taxes as compared to and imported complete unit. All white pioneer units are imported and not assembled in India. The grey ones are.
	() Thanks

28th August 2006, 17:52	#71
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Well most of the times(not always) I avoid Grey but when it comes to Pioneer it will take me really long time before I would get a Pio in B&W.... The reason is clear I have so far seen at least 7-10 HU(cassetes & CD players) across my family & friends (all in grey) in the past 6-7 years & none of them ever reported any problems under toughest of the road & dust conditions Me got a 5750 for 7.4k when I think its MRP was around 13k-14k with B&W.
	() Thanks

28th August 2006, 19:52	#74
ritik123 BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United States Posts: 123 Thanked: 4 Times	Is this to say there isnt much of a point paying the premium demanded by an authorised dealer?.
	() Thanks