Ice For Lancer

montyguru · 21st November 2007, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sucka

@ak : after the discussion seems kenwood is turning out to be the best option.so think would go with that(keepin in mind any future upgrades as well).

i think the new series of alpine is a better bet. though i don't know which kenwood model and what budget are you looking for. the 9881 starting 12750 onwards... 9883, 9885 are damn good HUs for their price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sucka

@b&t : definately got your piont sir,what do you say about getting a kenwood KAC-9103D (1800watt mono) and pairing it with a Ground zero Radioactive GZRW 30SPL or keeping the same amp and getting 2 jbl gt5-12/2 pioneer DVC307 D4 would be a better option(in terms of best output amongst these 2).also if you could let me know the price for Ground zero Radioactive GZRW 30SPL.

a friend on mine also needs 9103D, i haven't been able to find it. can you let me know of its availability and price? it is definitely not available with b&w.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sucka

@ navin sir : jbl gt5-12 with b&w must be around 5k only but getting them without b&w and from a distributer for 3300.and again same question which would sound better with kenwood KAC-9103D 2 jbl gt5-12 or 2 pioneer DVC307 D4 .

@montyguruji : sir you are absolutely correct about gunbir phaaji,today one of my pals was getting setup in his santro reinstalled by DRIVEN where gunnu phaaji dropped by and after getting the install and tuning done in his supervision,my friend was all praises for gunnu phaaji....without spending some major moolah he managed to get perfect sound that he always wanted without any upgrade or any new parts,just a new sub enclosure for 2 gt5-12's .

HAT'S off you as well GUNNU PHAAJI.

rather i am so overwhelmed by the tremendous support from all the TBHPIAn's, at least in todays materialistic time no one has time to help each other,here we have a whole community trying to help each other from every part of the country(some fellas from abroad as well).
Thanks to you all for this....

DerAlte · 21st November 2007, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyguru

i agree that they would go lower. however i'm not sure about the loudness and more cone area bit.

22/7 x 8" x 4 = 100.57 of cone area.

22/7 x 12" x 2 = 75.43 of cone area.

guru toh aap ho sir... lemme know if i am right or wrong!!

Arrey bhai @montyguru, area = pi * d^2 / 4, so

8" driver cone area = 50.286 sq.in.
12" driver cone are = 113.143 sq.in.

More cone area (as above) = more air pushed. More air pushed = more perceived loudness = "louder", nahin?

If one goes by power levels (watts v/s dB), 4x8" will be louder ONLY if those drivers are MUCH MORE sensitive than 2x12" drivers of lesser sensitivity. The only advantage is that the 8" drivers are likely to be much faster due to lower cone mass - less "boomy" comparatively.

[Edit: Sorry @montyguru, I realized that by the time I submitted the post, you had already posted a correction]

navin · 21st November 2007, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyguru

22/7 x 8" x 4 = 100.57 of cone area.
22/7 x 12" x 2 = 75.43 of cone area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyguru

B&T, you are right. 2 x 12" indeed have more cone area than 4 x 8".
22/7 x 6 x 6 x 2 = 226 sq inch
22/7 x 4 x 4 x 4 = 201 sq inch

well actually they have about the same cone area. 8" is about 220cm2 and 12" about 440 cm2 but in general the 12" would have more Xmax and lower Fs.

more Xmax means volumme of air displaced will be more and lower fs means it can be tuned to go lower.

navin · 21st November 2007, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Arrey bhai ..The only advantage is that the 8" drivers are likely to be much faster due to lower cone mass

..but the 12" need to move less (linear distance) to produce the same SPL... to cust a long story short there are no absolutes.

it depneds on the install, cabin, design of sub and box (if one is using a box) etc..

DerAlte · 21st November 2007, 11:17

Hear, hear! Well said, Navin. Yes, sometimes a conversation gets carried away on one aspect only - human folly.

navin · 21st November 2007, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sucka

@ navin sir : jbl gt5-12 with b&w must be around 5k only but getting them without b&w and from a distributer for 3300.and again same question which would sound better with kenwood KAC-9103D 2 jbl gt5-12 or 2 pioneer DVC307 D4 .

I have not heard the GT5 but I would guess that it should be better than teh Pio. I found the Pio to be very tubby.

montyguru · 21st November 2007, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

..but the 12" need to move less (linear distance) to produce the same SPL... to cust a long story short there are no absolutes.

it depneds on the install, cabin, design of sub and box (if one is using a box) etc..

navin ji, you are absolutely right. mota-moti what i meant was that more smaller woofers are easily installable in a small vehicle and have a lot more watts into it, go far louder than conventional 2 12 inchers. of course, rms rating, boxes and everything else matters. for that matter, you can even have 2 x 18"... and nothing would beat that, but i don't know if one can install it so easily in a sedan.

say if i had to choose from options fitting in the tray, three 8 inchers would fit, two 10 inchers would fit and only one 12 incher would fit... then i'd go for three 8 inchers for SPL.

coming to think of it, i would like to know how does a sub work in a enclosed boot... like how much difference does it make with a sub being installed in the tray vs a sub in the boot??

Bass&Trouble · 21st November 2007, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sucka

@b&t : definately got your piont sir,what do you say about getting a kenwood KAC-9103D (1800watt mono) and pairing it with a Ground zero Radioactive GZRW 30SPL or keeping the same amp and getting 2 jbl gt5-12/2 pioneer DVC307 D4 would be a better option(in terms of best output amongst these 2).also if you could let me know the price for Ground zero Radioactive GZRW 30SPL.

The GZRW 30SPL (17990/-) is a dual 2 ohm subwoofer rated to handle 1000 watts continuous.

The Kenwood amp specs I am not sure of. On one website it claims the amp to be 1 ohm stable. So I assume it will put out the rated 900 W rms even at 1 ohm. Otherwise you could use two monos, about 4-500 W rms each connected to each voice coil of the sub.

Bass&Trouble · 21st November 2007, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyguru

i agree that they would go lower. however i'm not sure about the loudness and more cone area bit.

22/7 x 8" x 4 = 100.57 of cone area.

22/7 x 12" x 2 = 75.43 of cone area.

guru toh aap ho sir... lemme know if i am right or wrong!!

For a minute, before I saw your own clarification, you had me really worried about your geometry textbook and its formula for surface area of circular objects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

well actually they have about the same cone area. 8" is about 220cm2 and 12" about 440 cm2 but in general the 12" would have more Xmax and lower Fs.
more Xmax means volumme of air displaced will be more and lower fs means it can be tuned to go lower.

To give you some more fodder for self-pondering, let me also mention that while we are accounting for cone area available for displacement as a circular area calculated from the published diameter of the respective subs, this is not the case practically and actual cone area is a conical area which increases for cones with deeper profiles. So there! Over to Navin!

navin · 21st November 2007, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyguru

for that matter, you can even have 2 x 18"... and nothing would beat that,

say if i had to choose from options fitting in the tray, three 8 inchers would fit, two 10 inchers would fit and only one 12 incher would fit... then i'd go for three 8 inchers for SPL.

coming to think of it, i would like to know how does a sub work in a enclosed boot... like how much difference does it make with a sub being installed in the tray vs a sub in the boot??

2 x 21" would beat 2 x 18" and 2 x 30" would whip 2 x 21" provided the truck (you wont fit 2 x 30" into a car) has the amp and juice to drive it.

between those 3 choices (all things being the same I'd take 2 x 30"). Sd of 2 x 10" is 660cm2. 3 x 8" = 660cm2 too but I would expect the 10" to go lower and have more Xmax.

A sub on tray is an IB install. A sub in a boot is sealed, ported, aperiodic or TL.

navin · 21st November 2007, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

..this is not the case practically and actual cone area is a conical area which increases for cones with deeper profiles. So there! Over to Navin!

hence please note I used the word "about" :-)

montyguru · 21st November 2007, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

A sub on tray is an IB install. A sub in a boot is sealed, ported, aperiodic or TL.

sir, i meant to ask what would be the difference in sound. say if i have a 12" in IB on the tray Vs a 12" sealed/ported in a closed sedan boot.

navin · 21st November 2007, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyguru

12" in IB on the tray Vs a 12" sealed/ported in a closed sedan boot.

IB most BOOM, least power demands
Ported moderate BOOM and some Bloom and moderate power demands
Sealed tighest of the 3 but lowest SPL and higher power demand

Now this is general statement. I have heard subs that are specifically designed of IB and sound shy in a box (any box).

DerAlte · 22nd November 2007, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

IB most BOOM, least power demands
Ported moderate BOOM and some Bloom and moderate power demands
Sealed tighest of the 3 but lowest SPL and higher power demand

Now this is general statement. I have heard subs that are specifically designed of IB and sound shy in a box (any box).

Navin-ji, you answered from the mounting (IB/box) p-o-v.

Perhaps @montyguru is asking about the end effect inside the cabin? IB directly firing into cabin versus sealed box kept inside the boot firing into boot and sound coming through rear seats? Not limited to primary characteristics related to mounting arrangement.

montyguru · 22nd November 2007, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Navin-ji, you answered from the mounting (IB/box) p-o-v.

Perhaps @montyguru is asking about the end effect inside the cabin? IB directly firing into cabin versus sealed box kept inside the boot firing into boot and sound coming through rear seats? Not limited to primary characteristics related to mounting arrangement.

Bingo. That is exactly what i'm asking. Thanks a lot for being more articulate.

The problem is it is a sedan. So i see three 8 inchers on the tray. But I could be wrong. Two 10 inchers may come. And one 12 incher would come. But let's say we now compare two 10 inchers on the tray in IB Vs two 10 inchers in sealed/ported in the boot of a sedan and NOT a hatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAlte

what would be the end effect inside the cabin?

21st November 2007, 11:17	#35
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	Hear, hear! Well said, Navin. Yes, sometimes a conversation gets carried away on one aspect only - human folly. Last edited by DerAlte : 21st November 2007 at 11:18.
	() Thanks