Need help with ICE for my Accord - Amp help pg.3

Akshay1234 · 9th January 2010, 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by manveet

Could you please suggest where a dash kit can be purchased from, and what is the approximate cost? What's the finish like, is it available in the same walnut finish of the compartment that will be removed to install the kit?

I have seen a few of these kits that have been made as DIY by installers, but the quality and finish left a lot to be desired.

they are not available in walnut trim. you get ones for the upper dash i.e where the hu is now. there are separate climate control buttons and a wire to convert dual zone into single zone. you can also get one for the lower dash. see this link Parts for 2005 HONDA ACCORD DUAL ZONE - photos, charts and more

Akshay1234 · 9th January 2010, 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

the audio control unit does nothing to the OEM HU's EQ settings. The RF 360.1 360.2 and Alpine 650 adjust the eq for the car to suit teh current speakers. the 360.1 does not have TA the other 2 have. neither of the 3 need be visible once set they can be tucked away.

Exactly the Alpine to does all of this. However the 360.2 offers some user control the Alpine very little (just 4 pre-set curves). But with a little smartness (B&T aka Ajay can elaborate) one can get the sound (tonal balance) what one is looking for.

oh in that case i will check out the processors you mentioned. the 360.1 is available for $200 so i might just pick it up.

Akshay1234 · 9th January 2010, 20:53

guys, im still not getting the ohms thing. with 2 ohms the amps seem to put out more power, so what is the reason for buying a 4ohm sub and running the amp at 4ohms though the sub will get less power? any difference in sound quality?

DerAlte · 10th January 2010, 20:39

The objective is not 'less power' or 'more power'.

One buys a sub for it's sound characteristics, and then an amp to feed power suitable for that sub. Most SQ subs have 4 ohms rating (most of us listen in moderation, don't we?). Anything upto 300W produces quite loud bass within the car when the 300W actually flows! Under normal circumstances, the consumption is 80-120W at moderate volume and proportional bass (that's SQ). This increases when there are loud sustained passages, or music like Hip-hop is playing, or when you crank up volume to enjoy your favourite song. If at all one deploys a much more powerful sub & amp, it is not for pumping power but only for the headroom (excess clean power availability) for those rare moments.

On the other hand, when one wants to play bass for the neighborhood, much larger amounts of power are needed. Then one has to select a system which can pump as much as it can. In such cases, 1 ohm voice coils (or a 2+2ohm DVC wired in parallel to get 1ohm) and mono amps capable of handling 1 ohm loads are used.

If one wants to be in a band between the above 2 scenarios, one would go for either a 2 ohms sub or a 4+4ohm DVC wired in parallel to get 2 ohms. But even then, one would select a sub first and then the amp. Just like when one buys a car, one does not select the engine first.

Akshay1234 · 10th January 2010, 20:48

oh so now i kind of get it. thanks. but how powerful should a sub be for the accord. i dont want to be heard 100 feet away. just enough for good punch and to give a good push in the chest everytime a beat plays. will 2 less powerful subs be better or one more powerful sub? im thinking of getting an alpine type r sub (rated max 500w rms) and getting maybe a 300w rms monoblock to go with it.

also going by what you posted, if i get a dual coil 2ohm sub it will be run at 1ohm of the amp. and a dual coil 4ohm sub will be run at 2ohm of the amp?

DerAlte · 10th January 2010, 21:05

1. Good choice. The Alpine is good enough for what you want. There are other similar ones from JBL, Ground Zero, Image Dynamics, JL Audio, etc.

2. Yes, a dual-coil 4ohm with the coils wired in parallel will appear as a 2 ohm load

Akshay1234 · 10th January 2010, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAlte

1. Good choice. The Alpine is good enough for what you want. There are other similar ones from JBL, Ground Zero, Image Dynamics, JL Audio, etc.

2. Yes, a dual-coil 4ohm with the coils wired in parallel will appear as a 2 ohm load

thanks for clarifying. the v powered 500w monoblock costs $170. that is 500w rms at 2 ohms. that would be perfect for the alpine type r sub wouldnt it?

DerAlte · 11th January 2010, 00:00

Sorry, couldn't understand which mono you were referring to. I am assuming you want to get it from US. But, aside from a slight price advantage, one would get good monos in India without the hassle - JBL, JL, RF, GZ, etc.

Akshay1234 · 11th January 2010, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Sorry, couldn't understand which mono you were referring to. I am assuming you want to get it from US. But, aside from a slight price advantage, one would get good monos in India without the hassle - JBL, JL, RF, GZ, etc.

sorry sir. this is the one i was talking about

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.

Invinsible · 11th January 2010, 01:24

As Deralte has mentioned 4ohms power is what most preferred for SQ output. That's one of the reason why you will never find the speakers made anything below 4ohms. As subs play low freq. if crossed below 60hz or so it will be hard to find the difference in sound quality between 4ohms and 2 ohms as long as you have good ear for it. Alpine subs are good. But as long as you keep them crossed below 60-80hz. Anything above that the sub will sound muddy and will be hard to integrate with the rest of the setup. 500Rms is good. Regarding whether you will be heard from 100feet away, Let's say a sub with 250 rms can deliver 105db spl, it's not that it's gonna be loud for people to hear blocks away. For some even 200rms is loud and good enough to balance with rest of the music. It all boils down personal preference as to what sought of music you like and how loud you listen or how much impact you like from the Sub. Some music demands more sub output for the bassline to be felt. So lets say you add another sub or another 250rms to the existing 250rms, this will add 3db of spl to what single sub with 250rms was producing which takes you to 500rms output. Adding another 500rms to the existing 500rms that's another 3db increase which makes it 1000rms. Sub output also depends on how efficient the sub or the rated sensitivity, along with that what type of enclosure one chooses.
For an accord 500rms output sounds good as it's a sedan. There is always the cabin gain that plays the role here. Usually +9 to +12 db is what can be added to the overall output of the music or bassline. A hatchback would have more cabin gain compared to the sedan. So, bottomline, don't worry about it. Having a sub that can be pushed upto 500rms will be good in your case.
Alpine Type-r subs have good low end. Stick to the enclosure parameters mentioned by the manufacturer for the sub. Don't go by the footprint of Alpine MRP-M500 amp, it's a pretty solid build amp and you will be amazed by the output it can deliver. There are many positive reviews on these. Regarding the price, search a bit as I have seen these selling it as low as 130$.

If not than there are some good choices available here as mentioned by Deralte. Definately worth looking at.

navin · 11th January 2010, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by akshay1234

also going by what you posted, if i get a dual coil 2ohm sub it will be run at 1ohm of the amp. and a dual coil 4ohm sub will be run at 2ohm of the amp?

just make sure the amp is capable of driving such low ohm loads. most amps cannot handle loads as low as 1 ohms.

Akshay1234 · 11th January 2010, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

just make sure the amp is capable of driving such low ohm loads. most amps cannot handle loads as low as 1 ohms.

i was just clarifying with deralte. im actually planning a dual coil 4ohm sub. thank you though.

thank you invinsible. any idea how much the alpine sub would run over here? since it will be a pain getting a sub back from the us.

Invinsible · 11th January 2010, 10:24

just like to add You could also connect 2ohm sub in series and get a 4ohm load.

Akshay1234 · 16th February 2010, 20:36

just to revive this thread guys. does it really make sense spending $200 and getting something like the rf360.2 or will a normal equilizer do the job well enough. just to clarify, im not looking for very high end sq sound and i have got the alpine type r front and rear speakers with me. just wanted to figure this out as i will be going to the us next month and if needed i will pick up the processor and an amp or 2 and maybe even the sub.

jkdas · 16th February 2010, 21:58

Dont think people use much of these things these days; will be tough to configure too IMHO. Spend money on something else like a good sub and a mono amp.

9th January 2010, 20:53	#18
Akshay1234 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 10,265 Thanked: 12,317 Times	guys, im still not getting the ohms thing. with 2 ohms the amps seem to put out more power, so what is the reason for buying a 4ohm sub and running the amp at 4ohms though the sub will get less power? any difference in sound quality?
	() Thanks

10th January 2010, 20:39	#19
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	The objective is not 'less power' or 'more power'. One buys a sub for it's sound characteristics, and then an amp to feed power suitable for that sub. Most SQ subs have 4 ohms rating (most of us listen in moderation, don't we?). Anything upto 300W produces quite loud bass within the car when the 300W actually flows! Under normal circumstances, the consumption is 80-120W at moderate volume and proportional bass (that's SQ). This increases when there are loud sustained passages, or music like Hip-hop is playing, or when you crank up volume to enjoy your favourite song. If at all one deploys a much more powerful sub & amp, it is not for pumping power but only for the headroom (excess clean power availability) for those rare moments. On the other hand, when one wants to play bass for the neighborhood, much larger amounts of power are needed. Then one has to select a system which can pump as much as it can. In such cases, 1 ohm voice coils (or a 2+2ohm DVC wired in parallel to get 1ohm) and mono amps capable of handling 1 ohm loads are used. If one wants to be in a band between the above 2 scenarios, one would go for either a 2 ohms sub or a 4+4ohm DVC wired in parallel to get 2 ohms. But even then, one would select a sub first and then the amp. Just like when one buys a car, one does not select the engine first.
	() Thanks

10th January 2010, 20:48	#20
Akshay1234 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 10,265 Thanked: 12,317 Times	oh so now i kind of get it. thanks. but how powerful should a sub be for the accord. i dont want to be heard 100 feet away. just enough for good punch and to give a good push in the chest everytime a beat plays. will 2 less powerful subs be better or one more powerful sub? im thinking of getting an alpine type r sub (rated max 500w rms) and getting maybe a 300w rms monoblock to go with it. also going by what you posted, if i get a dual coil 2ohm sub it will be run at 1ohm of the amp. and a dual coil 4ohm sub will be run at 2ohm of the amp?
	() Thanks

10th January 2010, 21:05	#21
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	1. Good choice. The Alpine is good enough for what you want. There are other similar ones from JBL, Ground Zero, Image Dynamics, JL Audio, etc. 2. Yes, a dual-coil 4ohm with the coils wired in parallel will appear as a 2 ohm load
	() Thanks

11th January 2010, 00:00	#23
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	Sorry, couldn't understand which mono you were referring to. I am assuming you want to get it from US. But, aside from a slight price advantage, one would get good monos in India without the hassle - JBL, JL, RF, GZ, etc.
	() Thanks

11th January 2010, 01:24	#25
Invinsible Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,257 Thanked: 62 Times	As Deralte has mentioned 4ohms power is what most preferred for SQ output. That's one of the reason why you will never find the speakers made anything below 4ohms. As subs play low freq. if crossed below 60hz or so it will be hard to find the difference in sound quality between 4ohms and 2 ohms as long as you have good ear for it. Alpine subs are good. But as long as you keep them crossed below 60-80hz. Anything above that the sub will sound muddy and will be hard to integrate with the rest of the setup. 500Rms is good. Regarding whether you will be heard from 100feet away, Let's say a sub with 250 rms can deliver 105db spl, it's not that it's gonna be loud for people to hear blocks away. For some even 200rms is loud and good enough to balance with rest of the music. It all boils down personal preference as to what sought of music you like and how loud you listen or how much impact you like from the Sub. Some music demands more sub output for the bassline to be felt. So lets say you add another sub or another 250rms to the existing 250rms, this will add 3db of spl to what single sub with 250rms was producing which takes you to 500rms output. Adding another 500rms to the existing 500rms that's another 3db increase which makes it 1000rms. Sub output also depends on how efficient the sub or the rated sensitivity, along with that what type of enclosure one chooses. For an accord 500rms output sounds good as it's a sedan. There is always the cabin gain that plays the role here. Usually +9 to +12 db is what can be added to the overall output of the music or bassline. A hatchback would have more cabin gain compared to the sedan. So, bottomline, don't worry about it. Having a sub that can be pushed upto 500rms will be good in your case. Alpine Type-r subs have good low end. Stick to the enclosure parameters mentioned by the manufacturer for the sub. Don't go by the footprint of Alpine MRP-M500 amp, it's a pretty solid build amp and you will be amazed by the output it can deliver. There are many positive reviews on these. Regarding the price, search a bit as I have seen these selling it as low as 130$. If not than there are some good choices available here as mentioned by Deralte. Definately worth looking at.
	() Thanks

11th January 2010, 10:24	#28
Invinsible Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,257 Thanked: 62 Times	just like to add You could also connect 2ohm sub in series and get a 4ohm load.
	() Thanks

16th February 2010, 20:36	#29
Akshay1234 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 10,265 Thanked: 12,317 Times	just to revive this thread guys. does it really make sense spending $200 and getting something like the rf360.2 or will a normal equilizer do the job well enough. just to clarify, im not looking for very high end sq sound and i have got the alpine type r front and rear speakers with me. just wanted to figure this out as i will be going to the us next month and if needed i will pick up the processor and an amp or 2 and maybe even the sub.
	() Thanks

16th February 2010, 21:58	#30
jkdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thiruvananthapu Posts: 9,687 Thanked: 1,492 Times View My Garage	Dont think people use much of these things these days; will be tough to configure too IMHO. Spend money on something else like a good sub and a mono amp.
	() Thanks