[Frankazoid!!!]

hi Nariyal Taster. I have PM'ed nisarg86 ur post hope it helps.

[Anjadekar]

Originally Posted by 599gto

Hey Narial Taster, first things first, your handle is really out of the box man!

Now, Polo is amongst the better cars in the market to put in some good ICE equipment. For starters, you don't need to put in damping material as of now, the doors and door panels are pretty sturdy, you can of course add damping later, as it always helps.

To avoid voiding warranty, go to a reputed installer, Bombay has many I am sure, there is Mr. Ajay Kamath from 4 seasons auto on the forum itself and his work needs no writing. In fact if you're reading this Mr. Kamath aka Bass&Trouble, it is my ultimate dream to get my ICE done at your place, it will take some time though!

Coming to the HU, I don't know much about HUs (been using a pioneer 1490 and have now ordered the mighty DEH 80 PRS, so didn't bother to look at anything else), I would suggest go in for a decent single din, it will cost you around 8k, at this price range all brands are equally good, JVC-Pioneer-Kenwood! anything would do, about matching the colour of interiors backlighting, most Pioneer HUs come with red backlighting which is perfectly similar to that of the Polo.

Front components, I would suggest Focal, I am using the Polyglass 170v myself (upgrade coming in real soon!), but at around 8k you'll get Access series components 165 A1 IIRC, very lively sound, great builb quality, works cool without an amplifier too. Other than focal, I would suggest you look at DLS, which is difficult to get these days, or the new Infinity Kappa 60.11, the tweeters on the earlier set were pretty bright, the new ones might be little better. Also look at Morel Tempo 6.5 inch Components, brilliant set with very lively yet not fatiguing sound signature. Helix is also good, but last I heard there are some support issues in India. There are other brands in the market too, like HAT, PHD, Rainbows and the whole lot but then you'll have to stretch your budget. One brand I really wouldn't suggest is Ground Zero, very low on built quality and SQ IMHO!

Rear fills, I for one believe in buying co-axials from the same series or at least the same brand as the front components, so that the sound signature stays uniform front and back.
Lets say 7k for rear fills.

Now with the remaining 12k, I would advice you to get yourself a decent 4 channel amplifier if you really like you music, an amplified set up sounds heaps and bounds better than a non amplified one! and components sound best when you feed them enough power. Most Component sets are rated at around 60-80 watts RMS, and a regular HU just gives out 10-12 watts RMS, its like malnutrition basically, so an amplifier really really ups the game in ICE. You might get a good deal for a really nice Focal Solid 4, that is if the dealer has some in stock as it has now been discontinued, another amp that I found impressive is the Digital Designs C4c.
Wiring, I am running Focal RCAs- 2x2 channels for 1500 Rs, and I use 4 AWG Finolex cable with an appropriate fuse. Thanks to LBM sirji for bringing in Finolex wiring to ICE. costs around 200 Rs per meter. Works absolutely fine! An easier but little expensive option is to go for a branded wiring kit for around 3k Rs.

Another suggestion I would give is to stretch your budget by just a few Ks more and get the Focal PS165 components, brilliant set of speakers and very high on the value for money proposition!

I am suggesting you to go in for a better Component set, so that your set-up is future proof and you don't need to change your set of speakers anytime soon. In the next phase, you can add a Sub-Woofer of your choice and some damping, and you're good to go!

Hi 599gto,

Thanks for the detailed reply with a ton of useful information. It came in really handy. I would have loved to get the work done at 4 Seasons Auto but won't be able to as I live in Ahmedabad.

I am now leaning towards getting Focal's 165 CA1 SG. These speakers seem to have pretty stellar reviews and I hope that they will be a big upgrade over the present setup and strike the right balance between simplicity and performance. Will Kenwood's DPX-5130BT be able to power them sufficiently?

The PS 165 look VERY tempting and would go very well with a pair of PC 165 for rear fills. However, they would require an amp and so add a rather large layer of complexity.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the prices I got by asking around a couple of shops here in Ahmedabad seem rather steep. I see that Focal gear is available on Snapdeal at rather attractive prices. The seller (Sound Expert) seems to have good ratings and Snapdeal has, what looks like, a pretty solid moneyback guarantee. Does anyone have any experience with ordering things from Snapdeal? Would you guys recommend it? I am hoping that ordering via Snapdeal will help in avoiding the many Focal counterfeits doing the rounds.

Originally Posted by Frankazoid!!!

hi Nariyal Taster. I have PM'ed nisarg86 ur post hope it helps.

Great! Thanks.

[599gto]

Originally Posted by Narial Taster

Hi 599gto,

Thanks for the detailed reply with a ton of useful information. It came in really handy. I would have loved to get the work done at 4 Seasons Auto but won't be able to as I live in Ahmedabad.

I am now leaning towards getting Focal's 165 CA1 SG. These speakers seem to have pretty stellar reviews and I hope that they will be a big upgrade over the present setup and strike the right balance between simplicity and performance. Will Kenwood's DPX-5130BT be able to power them sufficiently?

The PS 165 look VERY tempting and would go very well with a pair of PC 165 for rear fills. However, they would require an amp and so add a rather large layer of complexity.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the prices I got by asking around a couple of shops here in Ahmedabad seem rather steep. I see that Focal gear is available on Snapdeal at rather attractive prices. The seller (Sound Expert) seems to have good ratings and Snapdeal has, what looks like, a pretty solid moneyback guarantee. Does anyone have any experience with ordering things from Snapdeal? Would you guys recommend it? I am hoping that ordering via Snapdeal will help in avoiding the many Focal counterfeits doing the rounds.



Great! Thanks.

Hey Narial Taster! Sorry I just missed your location! But no matter where you go for installation just make sure no wires are cut, there are various harnesses available for all connection, insist on using those!

Coming to the HU, no HU except maybe a Pioneer P99RS (this is some real drool maal, google it but don't buy it!) or something to the tune of an Eclipse CD7200 or a McIntosh can power a pair of components properly, I doubt if even these can!

I would still urge you, if you have the budget, go for an amplifier. And there are no complications involved as such!

About the 165 CA1 SG, this is the American variant, I doubt if this is the one that's available in India. I think the ones available in India just have a different crossover. And, yes this is a brilliant set of speakers, and the reviews everywhere have been more than good. Again to answer your question, no the HU wont be able to power these sufficiently, but they are good to go without an amplifier too!

PS 165. If you like them, buy them! You can run these off the HU for now. This set has a better tweeter and a brilliant crossover network.

Yes, Snapdeal is one reliable source, another is purplekart.in, another option is too look in the classifieds section, you will get some stellar deals from reputed dealers, on brand new equipment! I would say you should negotiate for around a 30-35% off on the MRP with your dealer, these products carry huge margins I know!

I have never used Snapdeal, but it seems pretty decent when it comes to customer service and satisfaction!

Do write in for any help you want, I have become an ICE freak off-late, and I know of a very knowledgeable ICE-freak team and I own the same car as you!

[599gto]

Originally Posted by Narial Taster

..... I am hoping that ordering via Snapdeal will help in avoiding the many Focal counterfeits doing the rounds.

Focal counterfeits are an old story now, Focal has a genuine distributor and dealers in India, and the fakes were of real high end category speakers, K2 Power series IIRC, so don't worry about your components being genuine or not, they will be genuine in 99.99999% cases, still to verify you can check/look for a Preeti Trading Corporation(PTC, official importers of Focal car audio in India!) warranty card inside the box.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Narial Taster

... I am hoping that ordering via Snapdeal will help in avoiding the many Focal counterfeits doing the rounds. ...

Snapdeal is a convenient trade platform like eBay where individual sellers sell their wares. Neither will Snapdeal be able to guarantee a genuine product, nor will you by able to figure out if it is or not.

If you write / talk to an authorized Focal dealer, the cost is likely to be higher than the Snapdeal price (higher freight; don't assume that the Snapdeal guy is foregoing profit and giving you a real 'deal') but
a. you will get the genuine stuff and
b. you will get after-sales support.

[Anjadekar]

Originally Posted by 599gto

Hey Narial Taster! Sorry I just missed your location! But no matter where you go for installation just make sure no wires are cut, there are various harnesses available for all connection, insist on using those!

Coming to the HU, no HU except maybe a Pioneer P99RS (this is some real drool maal, google it but don't buy it!) or something to the tune of an Eclipse CD7200 or a McIntosh can power a pair of components properly, I doubt if even these can!

I would still urge you, if you have the budget, go for an amplifier. And there are no complications involved as such!

About the 165 CA1 SG, this is the American variant, I doubt if this is the one that's available in India. I think the ones available in India just have a different crossover. And, yes this is a brilliant set of speakers, and the reviews everywhere have been more than good. Again to answer your question, no the HU wont be able to power these sufficiently, but they are good to go without an amplifier too!

PS 165. If you like them, buy them! You can run these off the HU for now. This set has a better tweeter and a brilliant crossover network.

Yes, Snapdeal is one reliable source, another is purplekart.in, another option is too look in the classifieds section, you will get some stellar deals from reputed dealers, on brand new equipment! I would say you should negotiate for around a 30-35% off on the MRP with your dealer, these products carry huge margins I know!

I have never used Snapdeal, but it seems pretty decent when it comes to customer service and satisfaction!

Do write in for any help you want, I have become an ICE freak off-late, and I know of a very knowledgeable ICE-freak team and I own the same car as you!

Thank you so, so much for being so helpful 599gto. You have given me some great leads and I really appreciate you going out of your way to be of help. I checked out the DEX-P00RS. Its beautiful and I am sure its sound matches its looks. I think I am going to hold out, be pragmatic, and go with the Focal 165 CA1s instead of the PS 165 + PC 165 setup for the following reasons:

1 - I'm not an audiophile and the simplicity of the co-axes along with the increase in quality over the current stock setup should be fine for my untrained ears! That being so, I cannot really justify the expense and can perhaps put it to better use elsewhere.

2 - Ahmedabad doesn't seem to have qualified, experiences installers and if I were to get such an expensive (a simple back of the envelope calculation pegs the cost at over Rs 60,000) and complex system then I would like it to be installed properly. I do not know enough about these things to entrust it to the local guys or to provide the necessary guidance.

Thanks to you I now know about the PS 165s (and they seem phenomenal from both the sound and value for money proposition). Who knows, I might get them some day! As for now, I will take you up on your kind offer of help. I'm going to get the HU fitted tomorrow and if the 165 CA1s are available and well priced then I might get them installed as well. Can you recommend or point me to what settings I should plug into the Kenwood DPX-5130BT?

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Snapdeal is a convenient trade platform like eBay where individual sellers sell their wares. Neither will Snapdeal be able to guarantee a genuine product, nor will you by able to figure out if it is or not.

If you write / talk to an authorized Focal dealer, the cost is likely to be higher than the Snapdeal price (higher freight; don't assume that the Snapdeal guy is foregoing profit and giving you a real 'deal') but
a. you will get the genuine stuff and
b. you will get after-sales support.

Thanks. Will keep that in mind and try and negotiate a good price with the local dealer.

[599gto]

Originally Posted by Narial Taster

Thank you so, so much for being so helpful 599gto. You have given me some great leads and I really appreciate you going out of your way to be of help. I checked out the DEX-P00RS. Its beautiful and I am sure its sound matches its looks. I think I am going to hold out, be pragmatic, and go with the Focal 165 CA1s instead of the PS 165 + PC 165 setup for the following reasons:

1 - I'm not an audiophile and the simplicity of the co-axes along with the increase in quality over the current stock setup should be fine for my untrained ears! That being so, I cannot really justify the expense and can perhaps put it to better use elsewhere.

2 - Ahmedabad doesn't seem to have qualified, experiences installers and if I were to get such an expensive (a simple back of the envelope calculation pegs the cost at over Rs 60,000) and complex system then I would like it to be installed properly. I do not know enough about these things to entrust it to the local guys or to provide the necessary guidance.

Thanks to you I now know about the PS 165s (and they seem phenomenal from both the sound and value for money proposition). Who knows, I might get them some day! As for now, I will take you up on your kind offer of help. I'm going to get the HU fitted tomorrow and if the 165 CA1s are available and well priced then I might get them installed as well. Can you recommend or point me to what settings I should plug into the Kenwood DPX-5130BT?



Thanks. Will keep that in mind and try and negotiate a good price with the local dealer.

1. Pretty true, I still have an untrained ear even after auditioning so many set ups and even playing up with my set up too often. Takes some getting used to, to pin point the details and differences, and I am sure once the ICE bug hits you, you will make efforts to fine tune every detail!

2. Exactly my thoughts, even Pune for that matter has very very few good installers, which has pushed me to buy all the necessary tools, and even a drill-cum-driver and a jigsaw to fulfil my ICE needs!

About the settings on the HU, start with all things flat, adjust the Bass, Mid and Treble as it suits your ears. Like all HUs, this too has a Loudness on-off feature, loudness I think is basically just a built in amplifier, you can set according to your preference. As I told you before ive not had a good HU still, and awaiting my DEH 80PRS, so I think gurus on the forum should be able to help you better!
Another thing I have grown to believe and understand is that good quality music files really make a lot of difference, doesn't mean that you need to get into the confusing FLAC and wave formats for now, just 320 kbps downloads would do good things to your system, and original CDs are the best source of music!
Do share work-in-progress pictures and details about your set-up!
Happy ICEing!

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by 599gto

1. Pretty true, I still have an untrained ear even after auditioning so many set ups ...

Originally Posted by Narial Taster

... I'm not an audiophile and the simplicity of the co-axes along with the increase in quality over the current stock setup should be fine for my untrained ears! That being so, I cannot really justify the expense and can perhaps put it to better use elsewhere. ...

1. Almost none of us are 'audiophiles'. Even non-audiophiles have acute listening abilities, without realizing it. None of us have taken 'listening training' anywhere, we only have listened to a lot of music and expect voices and instruments in the music to sound like they should. Your statement is like 'I cannot appreciate good food since I don't know the nuances they talk on TV shows'

2. If you have a limited budget, or want to limit your budget, that is perfectly OK. Don't demean yourself by saying 'spending less is fine since I cannot hear it'. Decent sounding systems don't cost an arm and a leg

3. Coaxials in front are fine, but do make an effort to listen to a setup with components in front. You will immediately notice the difference in the sound image

The objective of a good system - no matter what the cost - is to achieve a response as close to what you will hear if you were in front of a band or an orchestra at a concert or live stage. And yes, as @599gto said, to listen to good music you need to have good media.

Originally Posted by Narial Taster

... Ahmedabad doesn't seem to have qualified, experiences installers ... I do not know enough about these things to entrust it to the local guys or to provide the necessary guidance. ...

Installers anywhere don't know anything extraordinary. They just know some connections by memory, the right way of routing wires and cables, and have good sense of discipline and cleanliness when they are working with their hands and tools.

If you care about your installation, you have to participate. If you abdicate thinking it is the installers' responsibility, you should remember anyone can make mistakes. There is not much to know here. If you read the other threads in the Sound Off and Show Off section, no matter which car, the pictures and descriptions will give you enough knowledge of good and bad practices.

Originally Posted by Narial Taster

... Can you recommend or point me to what settings I should plug into the Kenwood DPX-5130BT? ...

Originally Posted by 599gto

... About the settings on the HU, start with all things flat, adjust the Bass, Mid and Treble ...

DON'T. The HU is good, so are the speakers. Initially, keep listening to the system with ALL controls flat - don't change anything. You will gradually get used to the way the system inherently sounds - without introducing synthetic changes.

Change settings ONLY IF you start noticing that you are not hearing an instrument well - as compared to the same song you might have heard on another system, even TV. Don't change settings if "not getting the punch expected" or "feel like listening to a lot of bass" - these things are seldom corrected by changing settings - they require better speaker and/or amp and sub. The more synthetic changes you introduce, the worse the sound becomes as compared to the original.

[saaket_89]

Hi guys,

I have been browsing through the forums for a while now, but cannot seem to come to a decision regarding my problem at hand! I am a noob when it comes to ICE so please bear with me!

I have a 2 year old Volkswagen Polo HL. At the time of delivery, I had upgraded the stock HU to a JVC double-DIN (with bluetooth). There was no other change made to the stock system (speakers, wires, etc. remained the same).

It's been 2 years and I've decided to go in for an ICE upgrade. On a recent trip to Singapore, I bought myself a Sony Xplod XAV64BT (http://store.sony.com/p/XAV-64BT/en/p/XAV64BT). It's been sitting inside the box for a couple of months now coz I cannot come to a conclusion about the setup that I should go for. I'm itching to get it installed!

I do not like too much thumping bass. I prefer tight, clean bass instead. Not planning to put a subwoofer in. The budget for this upgrade is approx. 25k (flexible) excluding the HU but including the wiring, etc.

Schematic setup:

HU - Sony XAV64BT
Front Speakers - Components (Focal 165A1, Infinity Kappa 60.11cs?).
Rear Speakers - Coaxials (Focal, Infinity?). Should I consider putting 6x9 oval speakers on the tray instead of 6.5" round coaxials in the rear doors? The car is always self driven and the rear seat is hardly ever occupied.
Amplifier - 4 channel (to power the 4 speakers)

I believe the Polo takes 6.5" speakers in its doors without spacer rings. Is this correct? I am planning to use all 4 speakers from the same brand so that the sound is coherent.

Which amplifier should I go in for? Are the Focal Solid 4 and Kicker 450EX worth the extra money when compared to, say, a JBL?

Does the Polo require damping on the doors. I read that the doors are quite well sealed on the Polo so damping may not make much of a difference. Is this true?

Also, anyone knows of a good installer in Pune?

Thanks for the help! I hope a decision is made soon!

[Diamond_dawg]

Since the car is self driven i would suggest to keep the speakers in the stock location rather then the tray

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Diamond_dawg

Since the car is self driven i would suggest to keep the speakers in the stock location rather then the tray

Why? Are you saying "Use (cheaper) round speakers in OE location, instead of (costlier) 6x9s on tray"???

[Diamond_dawg]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Why? Are you saying "Use (cheaper) round speakers in OE location, instead of (costlier) 6x9s on tray"???

1: since they are being used for rear fill only its not gonna make a big difference
2: A good brand 6.5 speaker will cost the same as a 6X9 (Alpine R-type, Infinity kappa's)

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Diamond_dawg

1: since they are being used for rear fill only its not gonna make a big difference...

True, but ... Even if one ignore's the need of an infrequent rear seat passenger, something goes missing in the front seat. That is the 'fill-in', the feeling of being surrounded by sound. Try this: using the Fader, fade the sound completely front. The result is rather dissatisfying.

Originally Posted by Diamond_dawg

... 2: A good brand 6.5 speaker will cost the same as a 6X9 (Alpine R-type, Infinity kappa's)

Well, one should compare like to like. A round coax for rear door usually costs ~ half that of 6x9s of the same brand / series. The 6x9s outperform the 6.5" coaxes in the bass department of the same brand / series.

[Diamond_dawg]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Well, one should compare like to like. A round coax for rear door usually costs ~ half that of 6x9s of the same brand / series. The 6x9s outperform the 6.5" coaxes in the bass department of the same brand / series.

I guess the difference is big in India. I usually get my stuff from Sonix as i am in the US for the time being and here.

here they are about the same
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ne-SPR-69.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ne-SPR-60.html

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Diamond_dawg

I guess the difference is big in India. ...

Not really, since it would defeat the logic of "more material, higher cost, hence higher price". Look at Infinity Kappa on Sonic:

Infinity Kappa 639.9I 6x9 MRP $260: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...pa-693.9I.html

Infinity Kappa 62.9I 6.5 MRP $170: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ppa-62.9I.html

Discounted prices vary between sources, and are "here today gone tomorrow" basis. True comparison is on MRP basis.