[audioholic]

Originally Posted by TKMCE

This single Aircraft type strategy will not fully work in India. A high number of Indian airports cannot accommodate A320s. That is one of the reaons every major airline except Go and Indigo have smaller a/c types.

The smaller aircraft achieve a number of things. One is the ability to operate at a profit on many of the smaller routes. Routes like Delhi to Shimla or Kullu hardly has any cheap fares to speak of. Spice Jet made a windfall operating to Allahabad during the Kumbh Mela wish their Bombardier (Dash 8 Q-400) aircraft.

Another is that these smaller routes feed into the airlines mainline flights. On a rough guess, abut 20-30 people on the Spice Jet flight to Kochi operated with a Q500 form Maldives feed into their evening B 737 connecting flight to BOM and DEL.

Exactly what I am curious to know. The case of GoAir is different. They're on a slow pace which will mean they wont expand their fleet like what Indigo is doing. IMO, the ideal way to expand in Indian skies is to penetrate deeper into smaller cities with smaller airports, traffic which will require smaller aircraft. But here, they barely can manage places like Patna, etc with basic facilities and equipment. If the low cost fares reach smaller towns, air travel will become more popular. Since the target capacity will be lesser, they needn't worry about filling up a 180 seater compared to filling 100 or less seats.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Exactly what I am curious to know. The case of GoAir is different. They're on a slow pace which will mean they wont expand their fleet like what Indigo is doing. IMO, the ideal way to expand in Indian skies is to penetrate deeper into smaller cities with smaller airports, traffic which will require smaller aircraft. But here, they barely can manage places like Patna, etc with basic facilities and equipment. If the low cost fares reach smaller towns, air travel will become more popular. Since the target capacity will be lesser, they needn't worry about filling up a 180 seater compared to filling 100 or less seats.

I'm curious whether you are speaking from intuition or from a deep experience in airline economics.

I hope you do realize that the airline guys operate their current networks for a reason. A useful starting point would be to discover the sources of value in their current networks (esp considering Indigo has a solidly profitable track record) than to assume that they are overlooking obvious sources of value.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

I'm curious whether you are speaking from intuition or from a deep experience in airline economics.

.

Neither. Just want to know what's the idea behind it. The way the company is trending is very well known and nothing to object in that. Question here is what's next.

[Jeroen]

If anything I guess it's a positive signal. Means they are pretty bullish about their future growth and they have found financial backing to place this contract.

It also means they are going to need a lot more ground, cabin and cockpit staff.

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

Update on the Air India incident earlier this year at Kochi:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4792dfbe&opt=0

Jeroen

[gtonsing]

what about the episode where some part of the Kolkota airspace was blacked out due to their fibre optic links getting cut and radar being knocked out? I can understand the "blindness" but, in reality, how dangerous would this be?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by gtonsing

what about the episode where some part of the Kolkota airspace was blacked out due to their fibre optic links getting cut and radar being knocked out? I can understand the "blindness" but, in reality, how dangerous would this be?

I cant really say, because I'm really not familiar with the particular airspace. I havent seen any reference made in the press other than a very general statement which doesn't tell much.

But as it appears only the radar was affected, so most likely Air Traffic Control could still talk on the radio to all planes. There are standard procedures that would have been followed on how to conduct / continue safe operations without radar coverage. Just remember, vast pieces of airspace are not covered by radar!

Some of them the most amongst the busiest in the world such as the North Atlantic Tracks between North America and Europe. All planes fly according to flightplan and must maintain very specific altitude, heading and speeds which will ensure adequate seperation.

Of course, this airspace near Kolkota is different, as it is also near airports. As long as you can still talk to the planes, things are relatively straightforward. ATC would ensure more separation between planes under such circumstances.

So to your question on how dangerous it would be; I would say that depends totally on the Air Traffic Controllers and how they are trained and really current on conducting operations without radar.

Jeroen

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I cant really say, because I'm really not familiar with the particular airspace. I havent seen any reference made in the press other than a very general statement which doesn't tell much.

But as it appears only the radar was affected, so most likely Air Traffic Control could still talk on the radio to all planes. There are standard procedures that would have been followed on how to conduct / continue safe operations without radar coverage. Just remember, vast pieces of airspace are not covered by radar!

Some of them the most amongst the busiest in the world such as the North Atlantic Tracks between North America and Europe. All planes fly according to flightplan and must maintain very specific altitude, heading and speeds which will ensure adequate seperation.

Of course, this airspace near Kolkota is different, as it is also near airports. As long as you can still talk to the planes, things are relatively straightforward. ATC would ensure more separation between planes under such circumstances.

So to your question on how dangerous it would be; I would say that depends totally on the Air Traffic Controllers and how they are trained and really current on conducting operations without radar.

Jeroen

On a lighter note, you have TCAS also. So in case of radar outage if an aircaft asends/descends onto a collision path with other then TCAS will give timely alarm

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

On a lighter note, you have TCAS also. So in case of radar outage if an aircaft asends/descends onto a collision path with other then TCAS will give timely alarm

Yes, but not everybody uses TCAS, its only mandatory for certain planes (The Cirrus I fly doesn't have one), which means not everybody might have it and it's more or less a "last line of defense".

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

For those that are interested. Wikipedia does a decent page on TCAS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic...oidance_system

Note that although it does tend to make the airspace more safe, there are some drawbacks as well. One of them happens when the cockpit crew gets conflicting messages from ATC and TCAS and doesn't follow the correct one This let to a mid air collision several years ago in Europe.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Überlin...-air_collision

Jeroen

[TKMCE]

Jeroen
More than TCAS (which played a part), the Uberlingen crash was more because of poor work practices by Skyguide, the Swiss ATC. Another sad thing was if authorities had acted decisively on the JAL near miss an year before and made clear TCAS instructions over rides controller instructions,these lives involved in Uberlingen could have been saved.

Aviation is full of incidents where authorities delay needlessly and wake up after precious lives have been lost.

Nothing to do with TCAS or A320, but below incident reinforces what I am trying to say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish...nes_Flight_981

[TKMCE]

Originally Posted by gtonsing

what about the episode where some part of the Kolkota airspace was blacked out due to their fibre optic links getting cut and radar being knocked out? I can understand the "blindness" but, in reality, how dangerous would this be?

This is not unusual and Air Traffic Controllers and Pilots are trained for this eventuality. There will be manual "procedural" control which can means more delays as aircraft will arrive and depart on pre assigned paths at pre defined intervals and bigger separation ( am not a technical person so this is the best way I can put across). However this is not an ideal situation especially in busy airports as things slow down considerably and lots of fuel is wasted as aircraft in the air will have to wait longer before landing. But safety wise there is little impact.

[Stiggy]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

For those that are interested. Wikipedia does a decent page on TCAS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic...oidance_system

Note that although it does tend to make the airspace more safe, there are some drawbacks as well. One of them happens when the cockpit crew gets conflicting messages from ATC and TCAS and doesn't follow the correct one This let to a mid air collision several years ago in Europe.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Überlin...-air_collision

Jeroen

It's a pity really. I think it's drilled into most pilots these days that TCAS always has precedence over ATC instructions.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by TKMCE

This is not unusual and Air Traffic Controllers and Pilots are trained for this eventuality. .

I would say losing radar coverage is actually pretty unusual! Of course, STC gets trained for it. Pilots, well at least I, did not get trained for it during my IFR training. maybe for commercial ratings they do, but Im not so sure what there is to train. Pilots train for losing radio contact with ATC, but not for what to do when radar coverage is lost, because there is nothing you can do, until ATC tells you what to do. the essence of instrument flying is you do what ATC tells you. whether they do that because they have you on a radar scope or they figure out by other means is not relevant for the pilot. I never know what the vertical and or horizontal separation is,other then I know what the minimums are for a given circumstance. Its ATC that ensures separation vertical and lateral by whatever means.

[Jeroen]

In this Sunday morning Times of India:

Within weeks of Jet Airways flying around its planes with unlicensed pilots, Air India has now also pushing its Boeings around the Indian (and other) skies piloted by individuals whom had lapsed licenses.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/44936126.cms

The article states:

The airline informed the downgraded-by-US directorate general of civil aviation (DGCA) which, worryingly, failed to detect on its own the flying by so many pilots with lapsed licences

Not sure how the DGCA would know. In my opinion its first and for most the pilot who should now (see my earlier post), then the respective airliner and then anybody else. Its a responsibility that you can't delegate or hide from.

In this very same issue, next to this article also an article on the ongoing pilot salaries issues with AI. The article suggest that

Simmering discontent over salary and designations are causing cockpit fights

The Indian skies appear to be not very happy. I will leave it to anybodies own imagination to think what this does for aviation safety.

Jeroen