[esoticoreventon]

Regarding the Amritsar train accident, there is absolutely nothing the loco pilot could have done.

While it is sad that so many people lost their lives, including kids, they shouldn't really have been on the railway tracks. Our people are the single most careless people on the planet and to expect them to act with caution or a bit of common sense is asking too much.

Whether the engine pilot honked or not is really irrelevant. The people shouldn't have been on the tracks. Everything else is just a result of their action and the loco pilot should not be held accountable at all! You don't really expect to see 100s of humans standing on a railway track when you are on a train.

[GTO]

Mod Note: All train accident posts have been moved to a new thread.

[V.Narayan]

The Times of India's headlines read, "Speeding loco ploughs into crowd"!. The fact is - "crowd trespasses onto express rail tracks and fails to move as train approaches". The mentality that the small man or smaller vehicle is never at fault is all pervasive. That crowd had no business blocking the rail track. The driver at night can barely see beyond 100 to 200 metres and depending on his load needs 600 to 1200 metres to stop at full emergency brake. The train had right of way. No disrespect for the folks who got killed but they were acting both against the law and against common sense.

A rail track is 5'6" in width and a train 9'. You have to be seriously oblivious of your surroundings to not hear or notice a train and not move 6' in either direction.

I am waiting for the day we read, "Airliner coming in to landing ploughs through crowd hanging around on runway. Several casualties. Pilot detained!"

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The Times of India's headlines read, "Speeding loco ploughs into crowd"!. The fact is - "crowd trespasses onto express rail tracks and fails to move as train approaches". ... ... ...

Hard but true. How stupid do people have to be to occupy a railway line?

This is no comfort to people who's loved ones were killed or dreadfully injured. I am truly sad for them. Nor is it any comfort to the train driver, who, through no fault of his own, has to live with this terrible thing for the rest of his life. It is bad enough, for the drivers, when people get in front of their trains one at a time.

[V.Narayan]

According to Times of India, Mumbai edition the function did not have permission from the local district government to conduct the function. Further it was presided over by Navjyot Kaur Sidhu wife of the local Congress MP. And in a twist of irony the organizer spoke into the mike referring to Mrs. Sidhu, "Look at the 5000 people here for you. They will not move even if 500 trains were to pass". Well the police, if they dare or care have their smoking gun right here.

As a nation we have not come to terms with the age of industrialization filled with mechanical and electrical gadgets and machines. Or that 'Do Not Touch' or '440 volts' means just that.

We break road traffic rules. We disregard railway traffic rules. A different outcome could not be expected. Fortunately the railways have kept their head and stated no action will be taken against the driver who was driving at his assigned speed of 91 kmph.

[R2D2]

This is so sad! A needless loss of lives but then what happened to common sense? Was it in short supply with the participants or the organisers? Walking or gathering on railway tracks is trespassing not to mention chock full of danger. These people had a death wish to have stood on a railway track in the dark! And get this! The stupid politician from PB, his wife and the families of the victims are asking for the loco driver to be held responsible!

It is this extremely lax attitude to safety in nearly every walk of life that causes 10s of thousands of accidents and deaths in this country. I've seen people sleeping on pavements and even road medians, children climbing up street lighting poles with nonchalance, making homes under 100-150 KV electricity pylons. Good gosh! You are asking for trouble. When will they ever learn that being poor and/or homeless doesn't grant you immunity from the consequences of your foolishness.

[Thad E Ginathom]

An article in my newspaper laments that nobody has been blamed yet. Enough of it always being someone, or something else's fault. It is easy to find someone to blame: the people on the railway line.

[aaggoswami]

Horrible to say the least. However, there is absolutely nothing the loco driver could have done. He is not at fault here.

Would like to share one experience. While traveling to Delhi for work I used to frequent Mumbai Rajdhani (train number 12951) as it helped me get rest at night and not get up in odd hours to catch flight. Once, Rajdhani express had stopped somewhere before Faridabad. There was dense fog and Faridabad station was still away. People started getting off the train and walking on the tracks. It was a shock that such thing could happen. I was standing near door (bad habit of mine) and few other passengers also came near the door to take stock of situation or to know why people were deboarding the train. Those who were in the train could spot another train on the very track where passengers who just got off were walking. We all screamed and alerted others. Thankfully it was fog and train was slow. Fear on faces of passengers walking on track was evident, they scrambled and moved.

Safety is never on the agenda which is very very unfortunate. Self discipline is missing in most citizens, and playing blame game like loco driver is at fault, etc. is cementing the herd mentality of blaming larger machine in accident.

[fordday]

Though it is easy on paper to do calculations on stopping distance and time, the ground situation can be quite different.
Some reports say that there is a curve on the track just before the ground zero. If it is so, then the loco pilot may have noticed the crowd on tracks only after coming out of the curve which might be too late.

The burning effigy sure was a distraction, in fact looking into it once can make the driver or anyone blinded for few moments. This certainly cannot be ruled out for both the crowd and the pilot.

The loco headlights though seem powerful but its light is scattered and is unlike a car headlights which is focused. The loco lights are meant more for the outsiders to see it. The pilot actually expects very little obstruction on the tracks when signal given is clear.

In that particular instance compared to the burning effigy the loco light may not have attracted any attention from the crowd.

All in all, it was the crown that has trespassed who are solely responsible. It is illegal to trespass railway property / tracks.

The general disrespect towards rules and the damn care attitude towards safety in public places are major contributing factors.

But then one feels sorry for all the lives lost in this tragedy.
Trying to find the scapegoat here will not help. Learning from it surely does.

[GrammarNazi]

Sad. Hope their souls find peace.

Btw, guys, the ones most at fault have paid for it by their lives, please avoid hurting the memory of their lives by repeatedly ridiculing them for mistakenly believing that standing there was safe. If it wasn't for the distraction by crackers & the ceremony, they'd have possibly heard the train.

IMHO the railway should have checks & controls to monitor a clear track a few kilometres before any train runs thru a track.

If this can be done, authorities can avert not just accidents, but also possible sabotage attempts. Anyway, hope something constructive comes out of this rather than just a media/polity driven blame game.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

Btw, guys, the ones most at fault have paid for it by their lives, please avoid hurting the memory of their lives by repeatedly ridiculing them for mistakenly believing that standing there was safe.

It was no more the fault of those who died than those who did not die. Among the latter, I am sure there will be many with terrible injuries. The intention is not to ridicule. But no sensible person could believe that a railway line is ever a safe place to stand.

Those who escaped uninjured are incredibly lucky. One guy died trying to tell people not to stand there.

I wish it could be that every mother tells her children the story of this accident until they understand. How else will it not happen again?

[pratyush6]

How can you have such a gathering so close to an unmanned railway line? The organizers are equally to blame for this. They need to be behind bars.
Of-course, your safety lies in your our hand, but one could assume in this case that, maybe these people thought that required permissions might have been taken and that, no trains will pass?
Unfortunately, the political rhetoric will mean we will never really know the truth and the guilty wont be behind bars. The news channels are equally despicable. There just seems to be no shame in all of these parties and everyone is trying to settle their scores. As for the Indians who died and the families who have been devastated, will just end up as another statistic in a country where the life of common & poor people does not matter.

[deep_bang]

We could talk all about who 'should' be blamed - whether the organizers or the people. The fact is, in India, people just don't respect the laws. We are, many times, proud of how we can manage with all the jugaad stuff we do. While our resources are definitely low as compared to many western countries, it's time we moved from jugaad to a more diciplined way of life (which can only be done with good law enforcement).

An anology on roads - from 20kmph to 40kmph may need good roads. But going from 40 to 80 is a wholly different ball game. I believe we in India are torn between technological advancements (such as trains going over 100kmph) and bringing up the rest of country along (unmanned rail crossings, general respect for the law, lax enforcement etc).

At the end, I think school education is the key. If we solve education of all kids till 10th std, I think we would have solved a lot of problems at a fundamental level (such as never stand on the railway track - doesn't matter that a train is not approaching OR always walk on the foot path etc). These basic fundamentals are necessary before we can advance to the next level.

It is commendable that in spite of these challenges, Indian Railways is still operating the trains so successfully. But I am hoping we use this incident as a reason to turn on law enforcement to the next level.

[SCORPION]

. I am at a loss of words here. This is simply, utmost stupidity. This is an example of our attitude towards our own, and others lives. Sad. Sad but this is the truth. In reality, we are still 'junglees'. No matter how many times we claim we are a 'developing' Nation, in reality, we are a Nation in deterioration. No external entity can help us until we are willing to help ourselves.

[Intelsingh]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

We could talk all about who 'should' be blamed - whether the organizers or the people. The fact is, in India, people just don't respect the laws. We are, many times, proud of how we can manage with all the jugaad stuff we do. While our resources are definitely low as compared to many western countries, it's time we moved from jugaad to a more diciplined way of life (which can only be done with good law enforcement).

At the end, I think school education is the key. If we solve education of all kids till 10th std, I think we would have solved a lot of problems at a fundamental level (such as never stand on the railway track - doesn't matter that a train is not approaching OR always walk on the foot path etc). These basic fundamentals are necessary before we can advance to the next level.

It is commendable that in spite of these challenges, Indian Railways is still operating the trains so successfully. But I am hoping we use this incident as a reason to turn on law enforcement to the next level.

Could not agree more to the law enforcement bit.
More than education, it's some sort of civic sense we need which completely seems to be lacking. Jay walking, the chalta hain attitude plus so much more that completely defies logic.

As a forum for cars in here we personally see so many people not taking care of their vehicles and by passing their own security. The same applies to nearly all walks of life.

If and only if we teach respect for our own lives and that of others, along with responsibility, ethics and so much more.

A strong law enforcement will initiate a good fear of authority. Just like so many other countries where people seem to be more cultured purely because of the reason that they cannot by pass the system. Also because a strong system exists.

I rest my rant here.