[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by sudev

Step 1 - Stop paying compensation to those dead on railway tracks unless it's established fault of railways

Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli

Actually they aren't or can't demand compensation !

I still haven't understood what exactly the State Government is compensating for! Almost 300 lakh INR of taxpayer's money for a bunch of people who decided to take a train head on!? No wonder our country will be Developing forever and ever!

Had this been in the USA, the Railways would have sued the dead and injured, and won!

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Almost 300 lakh INR of taxpayer's money for a bunch of people who decided to take a train head on!?

Are they taking this out of public coffers? Shouldn't they have liability insurance to cover for such payouts instead? (Not saying that a payout is warranted, but just questioning the source of the funds).

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Which sane insurance company (liability or whatever) is going to pay up for people who stand on railway lines and lose their lives when a train hits them!?

Either you misunderstood, or you've replied just to give a snarky/funny response.

Liability insurance is to cover any untoward incident that occurs, and is typically used by businesses.

Liability insurance is designed to offer specific protection against third-party insurance claims, i.e., payment is not typically made to the insured, but rather to someone suffering loss who is not a party to the insurance contract.

Accidents happen, and the insurance claim and investigative process will bring about much needed structure to such compensatory payouts, instead of politicians pulling a number out of an orifice.

In this instance, if neglect or trespass on the past of the victims is proven, that would be ground to deny compensation:

liability insurance does not protect against liability resulting from crimes or intentional torts committed by the insured.

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by arunphilip

Are they taking this out of public coffers? Shouldn't they have liability insurance to cover for such payouts instead?

Which sane insurance company (liability or whatever) is going to pay up for people who stand on railway lines and lose their lives when a train hits them!?

[pganapathy]

Stupidity is not a gift.

I only feel sorry for the kids, mentally/physically challenged and elderly people who may have been unable to get off the tracks due to the crowds, or not understood the danger. But other than that, anybody over a teenager should have had the sense to not stand on a railway track where trains are running, even worse, having seen one go by before. As much as I sympathise with the loss of life, I can only say that if you don't have the common sense to avoid the railway tracks when trains are running on it, you deserve what happened to you. Yes, I know I will be trolled for being so cold-blooded.

And to make it worse, the government is using our taxes to reward stupidity, by paying families of the dead.

As far as I am concerned, the train driver has no fault attached to him, and shouldn't be held responsible for anything. The only good thing he did was not slam on the brakes in an attempt to stop when he saw the people very late I am sure. That would only have been putting at risk the passengers on the train

[thorque]

Such reckless abandonment of caution and self preservation can be expected from life forms resembling cattle.

Doling out compensation and such,will send absolutely the wrong signal and encourage this sort of hare brained behaviour.

Those folk had it coming,if not enmasse,would've been individual acts of self destruction either on our roads or any other fatal hot spot.

I would go as far as saying that the government be sued if they waste tax payer money,in order to appease their existing or potential vote banks.

[Soumyajit9]

Train Driver has NOT committed suicide. It is Fake News.


Please spread this info so that there is no panic or reckless comments by members.

https://youtu.be/CLq8r8TkbSM

[navrddy]

Originally Posted by pganapathy

Stupidity is not a gift.

I only feel sorry for the kids, mentally/physically challenged and elderly people who may have been unable to get off the tracks due to the crowds, or not understood the danger. But other than that, anybody over a teenager should have had the sense to not stand on a railway track where trains are running, even worse, having seen one go by before. As much as I sympathise with the loss of life, I can only say that if you don't have the common sense to avoid the railway tracks when trains are running on it, you deserve what happened to you. Yes, I know I will be trolled for being so cold-blooded.

And to make it worse, the government is using our taxes to reward stupidity, by paying families of the dead.

As far as I am concerned, the train driver has no fault attached to him, and shouldn't be held responsible for anything. The only good thing he did was not slam on the brakes in an attempt to stop when he saw the people very late I am sure. That would only have been putting at risk the passengers on the train

I Completely Agree, It is very unfortunate that kids (who are not aware of consequences of standing on track are also caught up in the middle) and also elderly and physically challenged who cannot evasive action. But for other normal persons, there is no reason whatsoever to stand on running tracks to and be stupid enough to expect train to stop and trains not to run because of this 'ravan burning' event.

I would expect railways to sue anybody standing on tracks, which is against law even on this case.
Lets be clear, if you are stupid and blindly brave to break all rules in this country, then consequences can be unfortunate for self and others.

[honeybee]

I think it's an extreme reaction to say no compensation should be paid to the kin of the deceased or injured.

I don't even know if legally this is compensation or aid or whatever. However we must keep in mind the families which have been devastated by this tragedy must be helped to overcome this period and sustain themselves for at least as long as it takes to set up alternative means of livelihood.

And making sure that at least their financial resources are not strained or drained certainly is the job of the government.

Let's not forget it's a massive tragedy before we start pointing fingers and laying blame and handing out punishments.

[sandeepmohan]

This is nothing new. We don't seem to learn from mistakes we make even after so many lives are lost. Fencing is the only solution. Make a tiny tube tunnel, like how the developed world does for cattle to get across the railway line.

https://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/repo...police-2677773

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by honeybee

However we must keep in mind the families which have been devastated by this tragedy must be helped to overcome this period and sustain themselves for at least as long as it takes to set up alternative means of livelihood.

I admire your humane sentiment.

However, the reality isn't this straightforward, is it? It's a given that the motivations behind announcing a payment aren't always benevolent (i.e. politicians showing that they are doing 'something', middlemen earning their cut while facilitating the payout, reducing media attention by making a quick payment to the affected families so they don't continue to make a hue and cry).

And, even if the ends justify the means, I would object to the manner in which the amount is quickly finalized and announced, in an almost arbitrary manner (e.g. "We must give a figure that is in the lakhs, so it seems big enough", "Half of that for the injured").

This is the reason I mentioned above that institutions like the Railways (and likewise, State Transport Corporations) should all have liability insurance that will better assess the payment in the case of accidents, and do it in a more formal manner. That will not only ensure that public funds are not used willy nilly for compensations like this, but will also give us taxpayers a clearer view of the "cost of accidents" (i.e. the premium for this liability insurance cover).

The scale of incidents are different, as was the approach taken, but take a look at the structured approach used after the 9/11 attacks (look at the Section 1 PDF for a quick overview).

Originally Posted by honeybee

And making sure that at least their financial resources are not strained or drained certainly is the job of the government.

In an act of God (e.g. floods), I'd agree. In a case like this, I would personally disagree, and it is most likely a matter of debate. Again, it would come down to liability. If the deaths were caused by the intentional and avoidable actions of a government employee, then I'd agree that the government should step in (but again, in a formal and structured manner).

Originally Posted by honeybee

Let's not forget it's a massive tragedy before we start pointing fingers and laying blame and handing out punishments.

Agreed - we should tone down the rhetoric towards blaming the people who died. The media should do likewise.

[honeybee]

All I want to say is strictly following the letter of the law without caring for the people who are left behind is not what a government should do. It is supposed to take care of the people.

Those who did wrong have already paid with their lives and limbs. What more punishment can be administered to them?

While on one hand everyone from us ro the government to the railways and maybe courts will dissect this incident and draw their conclusions, who will help the survivors (not just those who survived the accident but also the near nd dear ones of those who died) get back 'on track'?

Apologies for the pun, it has suddenly assumed a very grievous tone.

The government must, and as a society we must too, be compassionate towards those who have been scarred for life by this tragedy.

I won't say we collect monies to help the victims as if it was an act of god, but we can at least show our human side in going beyond the dry analysis and spare a moment to the rehabilitation of those affected.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by honeybee

All I want to say is strictly following the letter of the law without caring for the people who are left behind is not what a government should do. It is supposed to take care of the people.

I would wholeheartedly support and applaud this attitude of the government, if it were applied uniformly. In fact, I would be insanely proud of a government that did this.

However, does the government have in place any means of help for the homeless? The beggar with one limb missing due to a workplace accident? Do they tackle the problem of organized begging gangs using (and according to rumour, kidnapping) children? The mentally disturbed people who we occasionally see roaming the streets, muttering and raving.

So they're not exactly taking care of those unfortunate souls who've been left behind, are they?

In the absence of this, I will have to call out the government's actions as nothing more than spin doctoring, and managing the media glare. They have to be seen as doing "something". The easiest action is to dole out money to the victims, nail a scapegoat or two (e.g. the organizers, but not the police who signed off on the function), and aim to move on.

Does a government ever initiate a follow-up visit or check with the affected a year down the line, to see how they're doing, how effective their assistance was, was there something that ought to have been done differently in hindsight? No - because that incident is water under the bridge.

Originally Posted by honeybee

we can at least show our human side in going beyond the dry analysis and spare a moment to the rehabilitation of those affected.

Agreed - and the important thing we all (myself included) should realize is that these people made a stupid mistake, and paid the biggest price. None of us are perfect, all of us have made various mistakes of varying degrees, and have probably only been luckier.

----------

Now, your comments are very good - because they are describing how the government should be acting. And it is something that we should expect of our governments, and hold them to it. I'm absolutely not disagreeing with that sentiment of yours, which is why I'm also thanking your posts. This is healthy dialogue and engagement.

But I'd say it's wrong to ascribe the current actions of the government to such benevolent behaviour. In my opinion, it is not.

[srishiva]

Was the railways or the Police aware of the event. I think Police should have been and would have been there for the event which was also attended by an influential lady. Isnt it a case of no enforcement from authorities ? It routinely happens that there is no enforcement and people enjoy the freedom. Sometimes it comes back to bite the people.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Was the railways or the Police aware of the event. I think Police should have been and would have been there for the event which was also attended by an influential lady.

According to the Economic Times:

the police admitted they gave the organisers a no-objection certificate but said the event […] also needed permission from the municipal corporation.

It is not clear whether the organizers were informed about the need for an approval from the municipal corporation and failed to do so, or if they were not told at all (but as organizers, I'd think they ought to know what approvals are required).

(Of course, the obvious fact is that neither a police or corporation approval would have permitted people onto the tracks, so probing this angle is probably side-stepping the real problem!)

[Thad E Ginathom]

Good points made by honeybee and arunphilip. I too love the idea of governments that care, but doubt the reality. Payment of a few lakh here and there is cheap. The announcements, which have become a reflex response these days, are even cheaper.

I do think that we have to blame. It is not incompatible with feeling the grief. Lessons must be learnt, although I'm pessimistic that they will be. The somebody-else's-fault attitude will probably prevail.