[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Yes, hopefully this will be the end of the Dhruv's troubles. It was disturbing to see the loyalties of decorated aviators questioned by trolls for simply asking the right questions and stating the facts. I suppose all those trolls and arm chair Marshals have gone into hiding today!!! There was a video of the injured pilot of the last Dhruv crash. He seemed very angry lying on the ground in pain and he said take me as it is, seeming refusing to take first aid, probably wanting to send a message to someone higher up or to HAL.

And I can't help but wonder if this was the reason behind the saga of endless crashes with the Ecuador Air Force (HAL then blamed the Ecuadoreans & vice-versa) which led to a dispute between the two sides and severely compromised the Dhruv's export potential.

[V.Narayan]

^^^^^^
Having dealt with HAL at depth not once but twice I can say hand on heart they are lovely chaps but customer service or even a pretense of it and HAL are mutually exclusive. Similarly, timelines + any concept of cost and HAL are also mutually exclusive. But outside these trivial points they are wonderful chaps.

[V.Narayan]

Army seeks 20 recce helicopters on lease

https://idrw.org/indian-mod-seeks-le...ions-for-army/

<Rant begins >
This news item reflects all that is bad and disorganized with indigenous weapon development and procurement and timeliness in India's defence suppliers be it DRDO or HAL or others.

The Dhruv and or LUH was to best of my knowledge supposed to be developed for Army recce, forward air control roles. A role still played by the venerable ageing Cheetah. But the replacement end product is not in sight, the design development and proving trials I presume are not done with or anywhere on the horizon and so the poor Army Aviation Corp, who have a job to do and an unforgiving two foes to contend with are left with no option but to lease 20 choppers from OEMs. This means additional burden of training of pilots, ground crew and maintenance engineers and provision of spares for just 20 machines! We probably need 60 to cover our borders or 40 assuming a single front confrontation. These 20 are probably as an augmentation of the ageing Cheetahs which must soldier on. Our designers & PSU developer/manufacturer organizations repeatedly fail the Armed forces on timeliness and then on the revised dates and then again on the extension of those revised dates.
<Rant ends>

In earlier years the Armed Forces suffered and toiled on with what they had. Now at least we have started acquiring assets on lease and under special fast track procurement rules bypassing nightmarish procedures. That much we have improved.

Originally Posted by ads11

It's like Schrodinger's LUH this now.

From what little I read the LUH is a gem. The Dhruv too is a very good helicopter. I have 3 years with the Dhruv in very demanding operations to back that statement. Yet we twiddle.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Army seeks 20 recce helicopters on lease

https://idrw.org/indian-mod-seeks-le...ions-for-army/

Oh it's galling. It makes no sense. I thought there was all this song and dance about the excellent performance of the purpose built LUH on trials in the northern frontier. Well then why hasn't there been an order then? Even a small one?! I mean the Kamov option is basically being swept under the carpet (look at how at pains HAL were to steer folks away from the fact the rotary wing factory for the LUH amongst others was originally conceived for the Indo-Russian JV option). That project is dead for the foreseeable.

There has to be some reason behind this because otherwise it beggars belief why there's been a delay on this project - you can't complain it's expensive. The only realistic option available was a tailor made domestic product. The pricing was factored in with the development. There's no need for a new tender because the end users were part of the development programme. There's been bullish statements from the OEM about how ready there product is. The end users have stated positively they're looking forward to it.

So make it make sense: where's the hold up? Who is holding it up? It's really bizarre. It's like Schrodinger's LUH this now.

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Army seeks 20 recce helicopters on lease
.

This is outrageous and way beyond frustrating. Speaks of how rotten the system has become when it comes to military acquisitions....the cheetahs and chetaks were supposed to replace 20 years ago and still we are struggling to find replacements.

May be it's time we lease bureaucrats from abroad. May be that will change the way defence procurement works in our country

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

That covers the helicopters serving currently with the Army & the IAF. Next comes the Navy & the Coast Guard

V.Narayan Sir, thanks for a very detailed article. Unfortunately, I just came across it.

While almost everything has been covered, and in great detail, I did not find mention of the CHEETAL in the thread. So, just trying to contribute a little bit.

For information of the uninitiated, Cheetal is the re-engined version of the Cheetah helicopter manufactured by HAL. The project initiated during 2002 and aimed to enhance high altitude operational capabilities and maintainability as well as to provide a mid-life upgrade for safe & reliable operations.

Artouste-IIIB engine of Cheetah was replaced with the modern fuel efficient TM333–2M2 engine and FADEC for better performance. In addition, an automatic Backup Engine Control system (EBCB) is equipped with it's engine.
The CHEETAL helicopter is modified for a wide range of missions like

• Personnel transport
• Logistics Support (Cargo / Material Transport)
• Casualty Evacuation (CASEVAC)
• Reconnaissance
• Under slung Operations
• Search and Rescue operation

Salient features of the CHEETAL :

• Modified electrical system and instrument panels with modular warning lights and Master warning flasher light.
• Modern state of art fuel efficient engine and hence higher reliability.
• Quicker start-up and easier re-light procedure.
• Better power margins resulting in better climb performance at high altitudes.
• Lower noise levels.
• Lower specific fuel consumption (SFC) provides - Higher payload, Better range and Increased Endurance.
• Improved right rudder margins resulting in easier takeoff and landing at high altitude helipads.
• Cheetal has been designed to incorporate upgraded features such as light weight electrically driven Artificial Horizon, Directional Gyro, Flight Monitoring System (FMS), Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR), Modular Warning Lights, Master Flasher Warning and modern electrical system.

It is presently in service, though few in numbers, in the high altitude areas and being flown by the brave Army Aviators and the Air Warriors.

Data and photos : courtesy HAL

Originally Posted by skanchan95

This is outrageous and way beyond frustrating. Speaks of how rotten the system has become when it comes to military acquisitions....the cheetahs and chetaks were supposed to replace 20 years ago and still we are struggling to find replacements.

Sir, the anguish is understandable. But something is better than nothing. At least it will save some lives.

When the permanent replacement comes is still a question mark. Let's hope for the best. Till then, as an interim arrangement, this seems fine.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

V.Narayan Sir, thanks for a very detailed article. Unfortunately, I just came across it.

While almost everything has been covered, and in great detail, I did not find mention of the CHEETAL in the thread. So, just trying to contribute a little bit.

Thank you, Brother, for enriching the thread and helping spread more knowledge. That is a very neat write up. Much appreciated. On our aviation threads we encourage dissemination of knowledge, sharing facts, analysis {even if it is our own, especially if it is our own :-)}. Please add more when you wish.

Would you know why the Cheetal was not built in large numbers - budgets?, DRDO? waiting for Dhruv? Bureaucrats saying if you buy Cheetal's we won't fund the Dhruv's! I personally thought the Cheetal and Chetan were logical upgrades to invest in till new designs actually reached the squadrons as opposed to dates DRDO/HAL claimed they would be in service.

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you, Brother, for enriching the thread and helping spread more knowledge. That is a very neat write up. Much appreciated. Please add more when you wish.

Thank you for the encouraging words Sir. Will try to add my bit whenever possible. Regards

Would you know why the Cheetal was not built in large numbers - budgets?, DRDO? waiting for Dhruv?

Sir, the order placed was for 20 odd aircraft (Cheetal) only as I had read somewhere, since the Cheetal was not a permanent replacement and only an interim arrangement.

The Chetan is a Chetak with the same airframe upgraded and fitted with the Turbomeca TM 333-2B engine, the same engine what was installed in Cheetal. It underwent various trials including the glacier but never got inducted into service. Hence doesn't qualify for inclusion in this thread.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

Salient features of the CHEETAL :

• Modified electrical system and instrument panels with modular warning lights and Master warning flasher light.
• Modern state of art fuel efficient engine and hence higher reliability.
• Quicker start-up and easier re-light procedure.
• Better power margins resulting in better climb performance at high altitudes.
• Lower noise levels.
• Lower specific fuel consumption (SFC) provides - Higher payload, Better range and Increased Endurance.
• Improved right rudder margins resulting in easier takeoff and landing at high altitude helipads.
• Cheetal has been designed to incorporate upgraded features such as light weight electrically driven Artificial Horizon, Directional Gyro, Flight Monitoring System (FMS), Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR), Modular Warning Lights, Master Flasher Warning and modern electrical system.

Thank you for the information, aviator1101!

Can you tell us more about the interesting looking 2-in1 landing gear in the first photo? This is the first time I'm seeing such a landing gear!

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Can you tell us more about the interesting looking 2-in1 landing gear in the first photo?

It appears so, but is not two-in-one Sir.

The skids are the landing gears.

The wheels which are attached to the skids are called dolly wheels. In flight they are raised above the level of skids and are used for ground handling of the helicopter after landing and switching off.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

The wheels which are attached to the skids are called dolly wheels. In flight they are raised above the level of skids and are used for ground handling of the helicopter after landing and switching off.

Why do they raise them? When lowered as fast as I remember they don’t protrude much below the skids. Irrespective, up or down doesn’t make any aerodynamic difference I would think.

Probably only relevant to have them above the skids during landing. Because choppers tend to skid on their skids! Of course, I might be wrong.

Jeroen

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Why do they raise them? When lowered as far as I remember they don’t protrude much below the skids.

Sir, please watch the video below

https://youtu.be/trugil2loIU

The dolly wheels are used in Cheetah in a similar manner.

Only difference is, the entire contraption remains attached and raised during flight.

[aviator1101]

HAL Completes Production Of LCH Prachand 'Tank-Buster' Helicopters Ahead Of Schedule

Finally HAL is doing something ahead of schedule

An extract from the original article :-

Marking a significant milestone in the path towards the induction of the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) Prachand into the Armed Forces, HAL has successfully completed the production of 15 LCH units ahead of the contracted schedule.

Just last year, in March 2022, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) granted approval for the production of 15 LCHs — 10 allocated to the IAF and 5 designated for the Indian Army, with a budget of Rs 3,837 crore.



https://swarajyamag.com/defence/hal-...ad-of-schedule

[lapis_lazuli]

Any news on Mr Narayan? He hasn't posted lately!

[akshay380]

Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli

Any news on Mr Narayan? He hasn't posted lately!

He’s fine I believe. Saw his profile activity in aviation related post in another thread, which incidentally is also ‘Thanked’ by you!