[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli

Any news on Mr Narayan? He hasn't posted lately!

He thanked one of my posts in another aviation related thread yesterday. So I presume he's fine.

[dragracer567]

The Indian Armed Forces are planning to purchase a fleet of 156 HAL Prachands in what would be a significant boost in the number of attack helicopters operated by India (ToI in typical fashion uses the file photo of a HAL Rudra in the article ). Given the famous tussle between the Army and Air Force for attack helicopters, the units will be split between the Air Force (66 units) and the Army (90 units) though the procurement will be led by the Air Force. I believe India is the only country other than the US where two different services operate attack helicopters (Army & Marine Corps in the case of the latter).

This is also significant because as early as a decade ago, India was severely deficient in its attack helicopter numbers with Pakistan operating a bigger fleet. India has remedied that now with the induction of HAL Rudras and Apaches while the large orders of Prachands should help the Indian Armed Forces take on the superpower standing guard at the Northern & Eastern borders as well.



Image courtesy (Aatish Pillai)

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Originally Posted by dragracer567

The Indian Armed Forces are planning to purchase a fleet of 156 HAL Prachands in what would be a significant boost in the number of attack helicopters operated by India

Good news. It was perplexing that no big orders were forthcoming for the Prachand despite it being tailor made to the exacting operational requirements unique to the Indian frontiers. Any idea on the delivery timeline?

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The Mil Mi-26 has been phased out, sadly. Inadequate after sales support from Russia is the primary reason. When aircraft went to Russia for a deep overhaul they'd get stuck there for several months instead of for a few weeks.

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Yes, sadly. The three surviving IAF Mi-26s have been put into deep storage. Earlier, there were plans to upgrade these.

Attempts are being made to make the stored IAF Mi-26s of No.126 HU fly again:

Grounded for years, IAF set to overhaul Mi-26 copters at Chandigarh airbase with Russian assistance

Operating alongside Chinooks, the resurrected Mi-26 will give a substantial boost to the IAF vertical heavy lift capability to airlift men and equipment to forward locations

Tribune News Service

Vijay Mohan

Chandigarh, December 1

After remaining grounded for years for want of overhaul, the IAF’s fleet of Soviet-origin Mi-26 heavy lift helicopters is finally in for a fresh lease of life.

The helicopters will now be overhauled at No.3 Base Repair Depot (BRD) in Chandigarh with Russian assistance.

“A team of Russian experts had visited 3 BRD recently to work out the modalities of the project,” a senior IAF officer revealed. “We expect things to be finalised in about three months and the overhaul thereafter is expected to be complete in about a year’s time after the contract is signed,” he added.

Sources said the overhaul will primarily be done at 3 BRD, which is responsible for the maintenance and overhaul of Russian helicopters in IAF service. “Some components, however, will have to be dismantled and flown to Russia for overhaul and repair,” an officer said.

Earlier the helicopters were flown to Russia for overhaul. However, the process of send them overseas a few years ago was mired in delays due to which their technical life had expired and they could not be operated. In Service since 1985, the first Mi-26 was grounded in 2013, followed by the other two in 2014 and 2017.

The IAF had explored various options, including shipping the helicopters to Russia and after working out the financial and technical aspects, found overhauling them in India to be the most suitable option.

The helicopters form part of No.126 Helicopter Unit, the Featherweights, based at Chandigarh, which also operates the recently acquired US-made CH-47 Chinook heavy lift helicopter

Operating alongside the Chinooks, the resurrected Mi-26 will give a substantial boost to the IAF vertical heavy lift capability to airlift men and equipment to forward locations. Some IAF officers said the capability of the Mi-26 was sorely missed during the build-up along the Line of Actual Control in eastern Ladakh following the confrontation with China in 2020. In the 1999 Kargil conflict, these had played a crucial role, airlifting Bofors howitzers and other war equipment to strategic locations.

The Mi-26 has the capability to airlift up to 20 tonnes of payload, which is about the same as the C-130 Super Hercules transport aircraft, as well as carry heavy vehicles like trucks and bulldozers in its fuselage. The Chinook, on the other hand can airlift up to 12 tonnes and ferry light vehicles, artillery guns and other equipment in the underslung mode.

In the mid-1980s, four Mi-26s were procured from the erstwhile Soviet Union. One was lost in a freak incident at Chandigarh in 1998, when it toppled over during a storm. It was replaced a few years later. In 2010 another Mi-26 crashed near Jammu.

Though expensive to maintain, the Mi-26s have performed yeoman’s service both during military operations as well as in aid to civil authorities during natural calamities. They have airlifted artillery guns, heavy equipment and construction machinery to high altitude areas and remote parts of the country

Link

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/thre...on-with-france

What I found interesting in the quoted article is the mention of two new helicopter programmes I wasn't aware of. A medium lift multi role and a naval medium lift multirole helicopter. I'm guessing the latter will be a navalised version of the former but I'm trying to just piece together the hierarchy of the Indian rotary wing fleet, especially the domestic ones.

We have the LUH -> Dhruv -> IMRH?

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by ads11

What I found interesting in the quoted article is the mention of two new helicopter programmes I wasn't aware of. A medium lift multi role and a naval medium lift multirole helicopter. I'm guessing the latter will be a navalised version of the former but I'm trying to just piece together the hierarchy of the Indian rotary wing fleet, especially the domestic ones.

We have the LUH -> Dhruv -> IMRH?

Yes that is exactly my conclusion too. like with missiles and warships are track record with developing helicopters and successfully putting them into service is getting very decent. So, I would assume in 15 years the medium lift multi-role helicopter will be a reality. Right now I hope and pray that the LUH is cleared for service.

Back to the IMRH, it seems they are planning a machine in the 10 to 13 tonne class powered by two new yet to be developed Safran-HAL engines in the 2800 shp category. Developing a multi-role machine and the engines simultaneously sounds very ambitious and I hope we won't be waiting till 2047 to see it enter service. Fingers crossed.

IMRH's full scale mock up displayed at some show.

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Back to the IMRH, it seems they are planning a machine in the 10 to 13 tonne class powered by two new yet to be developed Safran-HAL engines in the 2800 shp category. Developing a multi-role machine and the engines simultaneously sounds very ambitious and I hope we won't be waiting till 2047 to see it enter service. Fingers crossed.

IMRH's full scale mock up displayed at some show.

Interesting, there's a parallel engine development scheme too. My worry for the delay would be there. I wonder if, and I can't believe I'm suggesting a concurrent development programme tool, but why not get early prototypes to market with a license built off the shelf unit from Safran before later tranches can make use of the co developed unit? That way you won't have one half of the programme held up by the other.

Is it me or does that mock up feel like they took a Mi-8/17 body shell and then gave it a bit of a Eurocopter treatment?

[skanchan95]

Indian Army Aviation's Apache squadron Raised - 451 Army Aviation Squadron.

Unlike the IAF Apaches which are Grey livery, these Indian Army Apaches will possibly have a two tone desert camo like Qatari and Israeli Apaches.

Army raises helicopter unit at Jodhpur to induct Apache attack choppers in May

March 15, 2024 07:48 pm | Updated March 16, 2024 12:21 am IST - NEW DELHI

Army is set to receive three Apache attack helicopters in May and three more in July.

Preparing to induct the first batch of AH-64E Apache attack helicopters into its fold, the Indian Army Aviation Corps raised its first Unit at Jodhpur on March 15 that will operate the helicopters. The Apaches will be the second attack helicopters in the Army after the indigenous Light Combat helicopter (LCH).

The 451 Aviation Squadron was formally raised at Jodhpur on Friday in the presence of Lt. Gen. A. K. Suri, Director General of Army Aviation Corps, a defence official said. “Army will receive the first batch of three Apaches in May and another three in July,” the official added.

India signed a deal with Boeing for six more Apaches for the Army, at a cost of around $800 million in February 2020. As part of the deal, six pilots and 24 technicians were trained by Boeing in the U.S.

The Army Aviation, which has so far operated utility helicopters, inducted its first dedicated attack helicopter with the LCH and the first squadron, 351 Army Aviation, was moved to Missamari, Assam in the Eastern sector near the Line of Actual Control (LAC) last November 2022.

The Cabinet Committee had in the past given sanction for the procurement of 39 AH-64 Apache attack helicopters from the U.S., as part of which the IAF inducted 22 Apaches under a deal signed in September 2015. Subsequently, the Government decided that future Apache procurements would go to the Army.

While the Army has been pushing the case for 11 more Apaches, the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) last year ordered a study on the number of armoured helicopters required by the three services.

Last November, the Defence Acquisition Council approved the procurement of 156 LCH at an estimated cost of ₹45,000 crore, 90 for the Army and 66 for the Air Force. There are 10 for IAF and five for the Army, currently being inducted, in addition to the 15 limited Series Production LCH at a total cost of ₹4,264 crore. Besides, the LCH, the Army operates 75 Rudra, the armed version of the Advanced Light helicopter.

Link

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Unlike the IAF Apaches which are Grey livery, these Indian Army Apaches will possibly have a two tone desert camo like Qatari and Israeli Apaches.

Since the operating regions would probably be the same for both the IAF & Army choppers (with some variations in end missions), why would the paint pattern be different? Is the camouflage not really important in today's warfare?

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by whitewing

Since the operating regions would probably be the same for both the IAF & Army choppers (with some variations in end missions), why would the paint pattern be different? Is the camouflage not really important in today's warfare?

Depends on how high the helicopter is flying. If it flies low, the desert/green camouflage would help while if it’s flying high enough, the blue camouflage would help - but more visible on radar. In general, Air Force helicopters have a blue camo while the Army ones have a green/desert camo. Same with the US where the Air Force and Marine Corp helicopters have a blue camo while the Army Helicopters have a desert/green camo.

A more important question is, how useful is it for the Army to operate just 6 units, assuming the 11 more units don’t come anytime soon?