[blackfire_9]

Originally Posted by montyguru

nothing wrong in expecting that, but reality is different. i have said this before, and i say it again. "Installers" are available provided you are willing to "pay" them. you go to a shop to buy material and he fits if for you, that too at discounted rates - i have very clearly put both, the positives and negatives of driven on this very thread

I am assuming you are under the impression that Driven was not paid for either of the installs that went bad or the experiences that turned sour. If it is so then at least in our case, let me just say that they were paid in full right after the installation was completed. Moreover, about rates, I will just add that if an outfit cannot take up a job at a particular rate decided on as part of the deal, they should say so instead of going ahead with the installation & probably ruining the entire experience for the customer as well as themselves & saying later on that they did a favor & they charged less.
As for reality, every one has their own way of evaluating worth, & if an installer feels that he would not get his work’s worth at a particular rate, then it’s best to leave it at that. As for the discounts, I think it would be appropriate if I don’t get into the details about how the same branded stuff is available at a much lower price at most other places, but once again, if they can’t afford it, they should say so.

Originally Posted by montyguru

now, take the fake wiring thread, it's been put up the best person in business to talk about it. it's been there since god knows how long. but do we still have people going and buying JBL without having a look at it? and doing that, being a MEMBER here, if you try to suggest not to buy JBL because they have fakes, how fair is that? i mean, all the info was here!!!

As for the JBL kit analogy, I don’t see any relation with this thread. Though you are right, it isn’t fair for somebody to try & suggest to not purchase JBL kits because they have fakes & as far as I know, nobody here does that.
However, let me also add that sharing a negative review does not mean that the intention is to suggest to not make deals with the outfit in question. It is simply an account of one’s experience, just like you would probably share a positive review. And I am sure you would understand that sharing a positive review doesn’t mean you are trying to act as a brand ambassador for the concerned outfit or product.

Originally Posted by montyguru

the goof ups that have happened have been discussed here dozens of times, and any person with the slightest knowledge would know a) whom to ask b) where to go for what c) pros n cons of each

Points a, b & c noted. And it seems to me that there is no point in me trying to say that in all probability, things can go wrong at the outfit’s end as well, despite a person having practiced the points a,b & c you have listed. So, I rest this here.

Originally Posted by montyguru

regards appropriate, well, for my listening taste, since i know i don't listen at full volumes and never utilise the full potential of amp, we have installed this before in other cars with no complains. but i agree, this should have been informed or discussed with you before, that is a mistake on the part of driven.

+1

Originally Posted by montyguru

a manager of the store goes by what the brand says or the owners or next in line say. i mean, tomorrow if you go to germany and see some machines being used to make rainbow, are you going to take driven to court because he sold rainbow as handmade in germany?

Originally Posted by montyguru

i'm not putting the onus on community. it's a large forum, people are free to choose what they do. all i'm saying is that, in the presence of senior members, who've been there, done that, seen it all, with things having been discussed before... there can be a better way of handling things. to me as an individual, a bad ice install experience by a MEMBER of the forum reflects poorly on the forum... and there's no absolutely no reason to it for happen... i've seen fantastic posts and support here... so much that if you make it an issue, sam can take it up and probably see that scosche kits with the label of importer also mention guage!! so why the fuss?

About the brand, well Scosche doesn’t advertize its kit in gauges & nobody made a fuss about it. Bringing some thing to light doesn’t count as fuss, & more than the guage, it was about the limitations of the kit & the attitude which we faced when this or the other concerns were brought to light (as have been discussed aplenty already in our threads). So once again, I rest my case.

At the end, Monty, I hope my post has not offended you in any way, & in case it did, I offer my sincere apologies & I rest this here.

Drive safe.

[montyguru]

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

I am assuming you are under the impression that Driven was not paid for either of the installs that went bad or the experiences that turned sour. If it is so then at least in our case, let me just say that they were paid in full right after the installation was completed. Moreover, about rates, I will just add that if an outfit cannot take up a job at a particular rate decided on as part of the deal, they should say so instead of going ahead with the installation & probably ruining the entire experience for the customer as well as themselves & saying later on that they did a favor & they charged less.
As for reality, every one has their own way of evaluating worth, & if an installer feels that he would not get his work’s worth at a particular rate, then it’s best to leave it at that. As for the discounts, I think it would be appropriate if I don’t get into the details about how the same branded stuff is available at a much lower price at most other places, but once again, if they can’t afford it, they should say so.

i 100% agree with you. but i think i've mentioned in this thread before, i will not call ranaji an 'installer'. he is the store manager. for the kind of installs you've done in alto, the cutting of panels, the mounting of the 3-way components, mukul bhai at patel auto would do a great job, in fact i see a lot more mistakes than what you've touched on! the midrange i think is directed to the dashboard, these 3-ways aren't easy to set, they need more time and tinkering around with.

i have read both, your and GT 500's threads, there is no doubt about it that you'll have had a very bad experience. but on whole, taking it from the positive side, i see that people going to driven have very high expectations. that's something good for them, and they should raise their standard of work.

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

As for the JBL kit analogy, I don’t see any relation with this thread. Though you are right, it isn’t fair for somebody to try & suggest to not purchase JBL kits because they have fakes & as far as I know, nobody here does that.

no, i didn't mean to say that people suggest that... just that i personally feel bad, because you, Gt 500, ByDesign, are MEMBERS here. i have a long list of people complaining and not being able to get on board. you'll have access to some amazing guys, who have great experiences to share, i mean, look at navin, der alte, they are so active here... so if any of you'll had put up a thread 'before' going about your install, you'd have been guided by not just one - but several gurus.. you'd have a choice of recipes, and you could make a better decision!!!

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

However, let me also add that sharing a negative review does not mean that the intention is to suggest to not make deals with the outfit in question. It is simply an account of one’s experience, just like you would probably share a positive review. And I am sure you would understand that sharing a positive review doesn’t mean you are trying to act as a brand ambassador for the concerned outfit or product.

personally, i would rate negative reviews much much higher and welcome them. i'm myself a very finicky guy. when i was 18, and 600 meant a lot to me, i was the first guy in my circle to walk into a Lawrence and Mayo store. i made him open over 150 boxes. and i walked out because nothing fit well. the sales guy just smiled and said 'no problem sir, it's our shortcoming if we don't have a frame for you, do drop in next week, we have some new stock coming'... now for that store 600 is nothing. but i went the next week, got the stuff i wanted for 1800, sent my friends there... who bought much much more expensive stuff... so much that it become a fad in college after i'd got my glasses. it's a long story... i'll share with you sometime. but being a negative guy myself and having trashed all stores, i have a sort of equity... people blindly go where i ask them too! they know me as an extremely critical guy. of late, i also got a traffic cop suspended using no contacts whatsoever, as he misbehaved while i was with my german friends and gave a wrong challan.

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

At the end, Monty, I hope my post has not offended you in any way, & in case it did, I offer my sincere apologies & I rest this here. Drive safe.

no, i'm not offended in any way. i loved your thread, your enthusiasm and the way you detailed them. the pictures are very interesting and learning lessons for all. as gunbir, i feel sorry for not being able to sort this out for you, and i can't even apologize for this matter, though if i do get a chance in future, i'd ensure that you get more than a compensation for all the experience you've been through. it's like i having recommended a friend to driven, who comes back with a complain, the onus would be on me... i misguided him, i didn't make the picture clear to him... cheers!

[navin]

Originally Posted by gunbir

Sir, I'm NOT a Guru! A guru is someone who teaches or spreads knowledge, which I don't.

Sir, I am NOT an installer!

Sir, Like you rightly said, I only have 24 hours in a day like everyone else, BUT since I don't have a life or a wife

I hope DRIVEN will learn from their mistakes and convert this 70-80% satisfaction into 100% customer satisfaction.

Gunbirji, a Guru is one whose word is taken seriosuly. And yours are. The last time I did anything significant in audio was 1995-6. I am a has been. An audio discard. Ask our friend Sam. He'll tell you.

I made that mistake becuase if I remember right you did work on the JBL Swift installs, the recent Nano (MS-8) install and a few other installs which were once posted on TBHP. For a person of your standing, you are very very hands on. That is impressive.

Gunbirji, kya hua. Life or wife le leh to app bhi mere jaise ho jayege (take a wife and you too meet my fate). First my wife insisted my JBL 2245s be moved out, then she wanted room for baggage in the trunk of my car! "Sacrilage!" I thoguht (but did not dare say it). Challo Shaadi kar le, after all Misery loves Company.

Gunbir, I wish every installer have a 90-100% satisfaction rating. This would make life so much more fun na? BTW is the "scene" in Delhi as bad as montyguru makes it out to be? To quote Monty "in delhi, especially in car audio - my bar is very very low. if you don't get the feeling that you've been cheated


Monty, Blackfire, I think we have discussed this to death so lets move on. OK?

[Honda Monk]

Putting a question on a much old thread....
Just wanted to know whether driven repairs Head Units (if found faulty) or not?
Where else can we go in south Delhi for reliable HU repair?

[panky12345]

Why dont you contact LBM.. he sure can hook you with someone for that!

[NOTORIOUS]

@ Honda Monk : where do you live in delhi and what make is your Hu ???

[Honda Monk]

Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS

@ Honda Monk : where do you live in delhi and what make is your Hu ???

I live in south delhi mine is a Sony make HU (xplod dvd player)

[Mindgrinder]

Originally Posted by Honda Monk

Just wanted to know whether driven repairs Head Units (if found faulty) or not?

yes i guess they do have a guy in Lajpat who does that for them, you can call driven and confirm.

[Sound_Affects]

Upon a recent visit finally got to see the new and improved "driven" move into a better facility with a varied choice of audio options and to make things sweeter they now sport tire sales aswell.

Things just got bigger and better @ "Driven"

[naru]

I'm starting to have doubts about my installation, but have to say I haven't seen a better manager than Mr Rana.

When my hu started developing problems (protect message), he sent his installer with me to the service centre to find out what the issue was (moisture, failed ic). Sent him again with me to collect the hu after it was fixed to check and reinstall.

I had to pay 1050 at the service centre but nothing to driven.

Very impressed with Mr. Rana's response. One guy out there who knows what customer service means.

[Nikhilb2008]

After having read so many positive and negative reviews of this place, I decided to give them a shot thanks to Gunbir who has assured me he will make sure the installation is done well.

Went to their place a couple of days back, spent an hour chatting with Gunbir and Subhan(one of the guys who works at Driven).

They dont seem very pushy which is a good thing. I asked them for the 3D Mat and Subhan showed it to me, fit it in my car and then didnt push too much (maybe because he knew I was there to actually talk about a full audio install!). Either way, was pleased and picked up the set of mats.

Initial impressions for me are good. I hope I have the same impression once they finish the install.

Have finalised an install for tomorrow. I have told them I want quality work to be done. Dont find much of that in North India but decided to risk it all on Gunbir's word.

Hoping to post a happy review here same time tomorrow!

[Nikhilb2008]

Review about Driven

First of all, let me start with the disclaimer. This is the first time I’ve invested in high end (for me) ICE. I have not got any other ICE installation done in Delhi and my limited experience encompasses Satya of Evo and Thouqueer of Auto Fusion both from Bangalore. Both times I didn’t go into details. Car was sent with driver and picked up a few hours later.

This is the first time I stayed there the entire day (except for a couple of hours for lunch) and oversaw everything.

My decision to go for Driven was driven (hehe!) purely by My. Gunbir. Mr. Gunbir Singh is the co-founder of BBW Distributors along with Jasdeep Brar. BBW distributes various brands like Mosconi, Gladen, Rainbow Audio, Bull Audio, Dynaudio, etc… BBW doesn’t have their own workshop or place for installation. They refer their customers to their dealers, one of whom is Driven.

Driven has a lot of mixed reviews on this forum and obviously I was hesitant. But I went there only because Gunbir told me to. I even told him that I am going there completely trusting you. I guess it’s unfair of me to put so much pressure on Gunbir. He doesn’t own or manage or work at Driven.

I went to Driven one afternoon and met Subhan and Gunbir. Gunbir patiently answered all my queries regarding my setup. I had some doubts like if my apps will work on the screen (iPhone), is a reversing camera possible, if its possible to give me the connection near my armrest, etc… He clarified all of this and explained about the products he was suggesting.

Rainbow Audio iPaul 4.300 Amp.
Rainbow Audio DreamLine series DL C-6.2 Pro. The Pro means the tweeters are from the Vanadium line, called the CAL 26 tweeters. There was some special pricing on this set. We decided to go for 2 sets components. Front and rear.
No subwoofer as I don’t like too much of bass or thump and Gunbir assured me that the normal speakers will have enough for me.
Pioneer 8590 Head Unit.

I fixed up an appointment wit Subhan and landed up there on Sunday morning 10:30 am. Subhan promised me that no other appointment would be taken. With respect to this, I did notice that there were no appointments taken for Sunday. There were a few cars who stopped by and some technicians were diverted to them and my work got delayed but I don’t think it was preplanned.

The work started as soon as I landed up there and the door panels were taken out, cleaned and damping was done in almost no time. I left at this point to go home and have lunch.

By the time I returned the 4 speakers had been installed and the wiring had been done. They also have installed a water guard on the front components to protect it from water inside the door panel. I didnt see this being done but I'm assured it was done as it's a common thing on Civics.









The old foam type damping that was the only damping found inside the doors.









A full plywood board had been drilled according to the connections on the rear crossovers and amp. This was done quite well and am happy with the finishing. The board was covered in black cloth and installed tightly in the boot. It looks quite nice and doesn’t look aftermarket.






The HU took a lot of time to be installed but I guess this is normal. They made all the connections and soon it was time to install the tweeters. They have a plastic pod to place the tweeters in the front. In my eyes, they didn’t match the actual colour of the dashboard but it’s a minor difference. Subhan promised to get the pods painted to match the dashboard.

I went back on Friday and got the new pods installed. They look better than the stuff that was first installed on Sunday.






With regard to the installation, it was done quite nicely. The damping especially changed the feel of the doors completely. I am not an expert on ICE or installations but I quite liked the way they have installed everything.

The best thing is that there are very few new rattles or vibrations after the installation.

The dash kit used is of lousy quality. Absolutely pathetic. The panel gaps are huge and I hate it. But I am told that this is how all dash kits are and I don’t have a choice. I really didn’t have a choice but to accept this and move on.








Driven has good mechanics but what I didn’t like was that in spite of me informing them 3 days in advance, they were doing lot of jugaad when I came. For example, the rear tweeters did not have a ready made pod. So, they took out a huge bag of old parts and were rummaging through that to see if something could be used. Also, they opened up a Morel kit to see if they could use the tweeter holders from that. Finally they found something and did some ugly looking cutting using a blade to make my tweeters fit.




Finally they used something to mount the rear tweeters like this. It doesnt look as good as the front tweeters but it's fine.




The guy installing the HU, Mukesh was quite thorough. However, in spite of his best efforts the HU was not aligned properly.




When I went back on Friday, he redid the whole thing and it looks way better.



What sets Gunbir apart is his knowledge about his industry. Of course, he will be biased towards the brands he deals with but he isn’t forcing it on you! He’s making a recommendation and you are free to do your own research. What I really like is his way of backing his claims. Some people might see it as sales but I chose to trust him given his reputation. Someone with a reputation like his cannot afford to be blindly biased towards the products he sells.

While doing the tuning on my vehicle (on Friday, 28th March), he started talking about how music used to be recorded in the olden days making use of negative spaces while today it’s all about loudness. He went into a lot more detail and I didn’t know how to take it all in! This shows that man’s passion for music, sound and his knowledge. It’s nice to meet a person who is such an expert in his field. With this kind of knowledge, obviously my trust in him goes up.

Pricing:

I didn’t negotiate too much as I don’t believe that saving a few hundred bucks will enrich my life in anyway. Also, I trusted Subhan and Gunbir to give me the best rate. I am confident that if someone else goes and negotiates with Subhan, they will get the entire package for a little bit cheaper. I don’t like to do that as I value the quality of work done over a few hundred rupees.

I spoke to Gunbir and told him that I will not even argue about the pricing and would pay whatever bill was presented to me after installation. I said the same thing to Subhan and I honoured my part of the agreement. I did not argue at all and just paid whatever they wanted me to.

I believe that I genuinely got the best pricing on the Pioneer HU, speakers and AMP. However, I feel I was overcharged on the smaller stuff like damping, various cables, etc…

What surprised me was that I was charged for an Aux cable, a USB cable which are used as inputs to the HU. I was also charged for the radio antenna and some other adapter wire thingy. I felt this was something that could have been avoided given that I’m spending so much otherwise. It is this that actually left a bad taste in my mouth.

The damping turned out to be quite expensive. I am not saying I was overcharged but it was expensive. Maybe it’s the normal rate! Since I am a newbie, I cant argue too much.

I was also charged 7000/- rupees for the 3 cables that were installed to enable Appradio on my iPhone. It consists of an Apple Lightning cable, an HDMI cable and an HDMI adapter for an iPhone. I don’t mind this. Apple cables are expensive. I probably could have saved a few hundred bucks buying it myself but I didnt see a point as I was really busy

The HU, speakers and amp cost about 96k. My total bill was 1,50,300/-. I don’t know if it’s normal to spend so much on the accessories but I was definitely shocked looking at the amount. Again, I want to stress that I did not do any research and I just trusted the people involved. Maybe I was foolish, but that’s done now.



What I didn’t like:

1. Rear seatbelt is beige in colour and was handled with dirty hands. Now, it’s dirty.
2. Small scratch on the gear knob. This was done on Friday during the refitting of the HU.




3. For a place like Driven which is supposed to deal in the best audio products, the professionalism is lacking.
4. Too much of jugaad and trial and error. My car was a Civic, a very popular car in Delhi and a very common car for Driven. However, they still had to do jugaad.
5. The dash kit is absolutely appalling. When someone is spending thousands of rupees on an install, they wont mind spending a little more on a quality dash kit. This probably is out of Driven’s hands but I wish they could source a quality dash kit.


Conclusion:

Was all it worth it? In one word: YES. The quality of sound in my car is fantastic! It suits my taste and I am absolutely loving it. It’s not bass heavy but the detail it has is incredible.

So, while I may have been overcharged by a few thousand bucks by Driven, I will not hold it against them because at the end of the day, the installation was done well and the sound system sounds great. Gunbir clearly understood my requirements and recommended the best possible combination for me.

To be honest, I had my doubts and never wanted to get the audio done in Delhi. I went here only because of Gunbir. I know i'm hyping up his name quite a bit but I cant stress enough how much I relied upon him. His reputation among the older TBHPians is legendary. Now I know why.

Overall, I am very happy. It's an expensive setup but in my opinion it's worth it. What made it better is that Gunbir and Jasdeep met me on Friday and did the tuning so that the system sounds even sweeter now.

The system sounds very sweet and clean. I absolutely love it. All the inputs work well and as of now, I have no complaints with the sound.

When it comes to Driven, I think they have potential but they need to start working like professionals and not like a typical Delhi road side shop. Maybe my expectations are too high but I firmly believe this. Maybe by Delhi standards Driven is exceptional. But this is just my opinion. I hope Subhan and Rana take this feedback positively as I dont mean to insult them or diss them.

I think I would recommend Driven to other people but at the end of the day, your mileage may vary.

[iTNerd]

@Nikhilb2008, that's a hefty bill, but I guess it was expected seeing the overhaul and components. Just few months back, I got almost the same specs of your ICE for my Civic from a different dealer minus the appradio cables, damping as it was coming out to be much cheaper. However, the installation was badly done by that dealer that I had to contact Subhan @Driven to basically re-install/setup from scratch. I bought the damping materials, appradio cables and a subwoofer from him to complete my ICE on my Civic. It took an entire day but it was done very well, much better than any other shops in NCR. I agree though on your observation on the lack of professionalism on their part. But I guess its the same or worse with others too here.

Regarding the dash kit, I had to change it 3 times before I could get an almost near perfect fit. Subhan recommended to use the tweeters on the plastic pods, but it looked so cheap that I insisted the tweeters should be housed on the stock location. But the new tweeters were larger than the OEM ones, but with some jugaad (unscrewing the bottom bits on the OEM location), managed to install/hide the tweeters in the original location.

About the damping, was it done in 3 layers? And were the rear doors dampen too? I went for maximum damping 3 layers (front + rear doors) and 2 layers on the rear boot + rear speakers deck. If you had not installed a rear view camera, do so, its very convenient and integrates very well with the headunit.

In total, I must have visited Driven 3-4 times to have the ICE setting/setup perfected to my taste on my Civic. But at the end, it was well worthwhile and man, its very addictive.

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by iTNerd

About the damping, was it done in 3 layers? And were the rear doors dampen too? I went for maximum damping 3 layers (front + rear doors) and 2 layers on the rear boot + rear speakers deck. If you had not installed a rear view camera, do so, its very convenient and integrates very well with the headunit.

In total, I must have visited Driven 3-4 times to have the ICE setting/setup perfected to my taste on my Civic. But at the end, it was well worthwhile and man, its very addictive.

Damping was done 3 layers in the front doors, 2 layers on the rear doors.

I did go for a rear view camera. It's quite convenient and the clarity is good as well.

I did not go for damping of boot as I am not using subwoofer.

I also went for an optional steering wheel remote. I've been using the past 5 days and am quite happy with that.

[devilwearsprada]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Damping was done 3 layers in the front doors, 2 layers on the rear doors.

I did go for a rear view camera. It's quite convenient and the clarity is good as well.

I did not go for damping of boot as I am not using subwoofer.

I also went for an optional steering wheel remote. I've been using the past 5 days and am quite happy with that.

Nikhil, I dont mean to offend you, but its always wise to do a little research. Had I read this properly before, I would have recommended you to atleast take a look at Motor Concepts and check their services out too. But, if you are enjoying the sound then its all worth it.
A few points though :
1.Why didnt you go for a damping from Dynamat or Dampmat or roadkill from stinger. Focal isnt the general choice because it is more expensive, and well there are other alternatives.
2. Rs.50,000 for accesories is too much even if you include everything. I am sure it would have been much cheaper. It might sound akward, but unless the wiring that you have used is super expensive you have been overcharged.

All the best though with the ICE! And enjoy the good sound.