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Old 16th April 2022, 00:42   #16
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

I have just installed a home single phase charger at home. It can give from 7,4kWh to 22kWh depending on the connection. My car has a 7,2kWh onboard charger.
The house has only a 230V system so the 3 phase chargers cannot be used. You need 400V for that.
The charger is waterproof. I have set it to charge only when electricity is cheapest for that day. It has Wifi and 4G.
Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car-1dc6d6a39646439983f8c7dc3e7583ed.jpeg

Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car-fb54e50493914c49b6c38303ccebdddf.jpeg
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Old 16th April 2022, 09:22   #17
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

Fantastic thread. I have been trying to convince my father to go for a Tata Tigor EV for his daily commute of 40 kms instead of automatic ICE. EVs being gearless, creates much easier driving experience for him. His arguments are like what if the charge runs out etc. I told him charge you car the same way you charge your iphone i.e overnight. He uses normal charger even when his iphone supports 20w fast charging, same way 15A socket is more than enough to charge an EV. I told him that you always charge your phone when it reaches 40%, do the same for your EV. He currently a Creta MT D and ever increasing traffic in our small lanes is a huge concern for him.
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Old 16th April 2022, 12:22   #18
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

Two of them are already being used for trickle charging my cars.
Hi GTO, What's the use of trickle charge on ICE Cars ?
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Old 16th April 2022, 14:51   #19
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

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Originally Posted by woodstock3001 View Post
Hi GTO, What's the use of trickle charge on ICE Cars ?
Trickle chargers are extremely useful in keeping ICE car batteries charged. Usually used on cars that see low usage and/or frequent start stop usage, since it isn't enough time to charge the battery. Lead Acid batteries don't like sitting idle as they become prone to sulfation, thus affecting battery life.

Since I live in an apartment, I remove the battery, bring it home, and fully charge it once every 3-6 months.

I use a Noco 2A charger.
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Old 16th April 2022, 16:02   #20
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

Seems like a no brainer. However, an exposed, live 15A socket on the basement:

1. It's a fire hazard (Even with proper grounding these cheap sockets melt or smoke, imagine this on continuous load throughout the year)
2. Dangerous in a Naughty kids rampant society
3. Electricity theft (You've just given a free electricity pass to anyone who has access to basement)
4. Water hazard

Last edited by GTO : 16th April 2022 at 17:18. Reason: Watch the sarcasm, buddy. NOT the tone we permit or entertain on this forum. Thanks
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Old 16th April 2022, 17:33   #21
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

Well, if the power factor of the built in charger of the EV is maintained unity (while designing it) and the charger is rated for 15 A input ; the 15A socket provides 15A x 240V= 3600W i.e. 3.6 kW, not that humble I guess.

Consider 20% less if the charger maintains power factor at 0.8 and so on.
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Old 16th April 2022, 18:43   #22
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

One factor which may also favour 15A plug would be ability to use home solar setup. Combination of an EV and home solar setup has really strong potential, looking at fuel prices.

Experts may correct as I don't have personal experience.
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Old 17th April 2022, 00:46   #23
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
IMHO, 95% of car owners do NOT need anything more than the regular dirt-cheap 15A plug. Reasons:

- I reckon 15A will be the most widely used option for car owners in India
- Did I mention its cheap? You could get a 15A socket installed for as low as ~2000 bucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghupro View Post
Just curious to know, what sort of 15A socket setup is it in the pic shared? Looks like it has a casing that waterproofs the sockets. Can you please share more details on it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by batish View Post
AFAIK, these are C&S Boxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by torquecurve View Post
Question - if the socket is ‘outside’ exposed to the elements and the only option is ‘open’ parking, is it safe to charge overnight during the monsoons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by batish View Post
I don't think electricity and water bond very well. Too many risks. Either your MCB will trip or your adapter will fail.

DIY a box just like they use for solar components. Place your adapter plug and 15A socket in it. Since it'd be waterproof, chances of anything going wrong would be less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by batish View Post
I am not sure which adapters these companies are using. But if these are normal 15A adapters which our AC's and Geyser's use then there are chances. Better to get a box with long extension cord which can keep your adaptor and socket inside plugged in safely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
A jugaad box where the wire enters from a hole on the bottom and is covered from all other sides seems to be best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RYP View Post
an exposed, live 15A socket on the basement:

1. It's a fire hazard (Even with proper grounding these cheap sockets melt or smoke, imagine this on continuous load throughout the year)
2. Dangerous in a Naughty kids rampant society
3. Electricity theft (You've just given a free electricity pass to anyone who has access to basement)
4. Water hazard
Sorry for quoting so many posts at once. But while reading all these, I had a smile. My friend bought Nexon EV last year; and he was provided with a wall outlet (charging box) which needed only single phase 240V 15A input line.

We too were contemplating why Tata would have provided this box with vehicle. Our conclusion was on similar lines as in the quoted posts. All this indicate how well Tata has done its ground research for average customer use-case.

From outside, it is simple standard weatherproof box, with Tata Ziptron branding :

Make : Legrand
Components : RCCB [2pole, 240V, 25A, 30mA] [Link], Switch & Socket [15A]
Physical Safety : Lock & Key
Weatherproofing : Rubber gasket

This setup is good reference for anyone who's looking to install plug-points in open for EV or otherwise.

For any electrical setup, particularly in open/ exposed area, RCCBs are must to prevent mishap. Kudos to Tata for thinking it through.

I don't have pictures handy, so borrowing from bhpian prasanna_indaje [Link to his post ((Not) a problem of plenty | My Tata Nexon EV Review)].

Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car-2248441d1640170055notproblemplentymytatanexonevreviewmeterboard31.jpg

Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car-2248446d1640170150notproblemplentymytatanexonevreviewziptron21.jpg

Last edited by AutoNoob : 17th April 2022 at 00:50.
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Old 17th April 2022, 07:16   #24
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishal.R View Post
One factor which may also favour 15A plug would be ability to use home solar setup. Combination of an EV and home solar setup has really strong potential, looking at fuel prices.

Experts may correct as I don't have personal experience.
Correct, but just to add some details as I recently got a solar setup at home:
1. Solar generation is only for about 4 to 6 hours when Sun is strong. And since this is in the day time, one cannot expect to use it directly for charging the car.
2. The best setup today is to use net metering so that the 4 to 6 hours of solar power goes to the grid and you can use it at night the way you want. We basically use the grid like a battery.
3. The net metering concept applies to a particular meter and hence you need to ensure when wiring that the meter being used for the car charger is same as the one connected to the solar panel + grid.
The solar setup can be done at a later point. For independent house owners it maybe more beneficial to extent the current meter and get a new electrical point so that the solar setup can be scaled up not only to charge the car but also to power your house.
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Old 17th April 2022, 08:47   #25
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

A most sensible suggestion by GTO and other contributing members. I agree 101% with this. In around 2012 when the apartment building, where I now reside, was being completed I requested the builder to install two 15 amp connections at my three parking slots in anticipation that in a decade EVs will come. At that time I had spoken to a friend at M&M (who were then working on the the E20) and he assured me a good 15 amp connection is all that is needed for slow charging.

Cut to 2021. We (the building residents) installed 5 fast charging points in our public parking space as an experiment. At that time the technical team also reconfirmed that my 15 amp points are good enough for slow charging. as the OP states we sleep 8 hours a day. The car often remains stationery in the parking slot for a few hours each day during daylight hours too. All this standing around is more than adequate for me.

With all that long term preparation I have not bought an EV yet! - Waiting for battery range and safety to improve which I'm confident will happen in significant jumps in 2 to 3 years.
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Old 17th April 2022, 09:08   #26
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

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Originally Posted by deep_bang View Post
3. The net metering concept applies to a particular meter and hence you need to ensure when wiring that the meter being used for the car charger is same as the one connected to the solar panel + grid.
This is nice but I recently read about separate EV meters (outside TBHP) that are being offered to EV owners by some states (at least Delhi and Maharashtra among others). These have no fixed monthly charge, no free units (relevant for Delhi) and does not cause the household meter billing to go to the most expensive electricity slab unnecessarily.

How can this work out in such a scenario? Since the electricity generation and bulk consumption will be on different meters.

Personally I feel EV owners should refrain from getting the separate EV meter. Separate meters will just make it easier for the DISCOMs to keep raising EV electricity rates in the future for better revenue without affecting household consumers in the time of the future when EVs are commonplace and ICE cars are on their way out. With a separate meter, there is no way the consumer can net-meter their way out of this greed surcharge.
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Old 17th April 2022, 09:50   #27
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

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Originally Posted by Indian2003 View Post
I have set it to charge only when electricity is cheapest for that day. It has Wifi and 4G.
OT, but how does the charger figure out that the prices wouldn't fall any further on that particular day? Or do you have fixed rates for timeslots and it chooses the cheapest time?
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Old 17th April 2022, 12:37   #28
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

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OT, but how does the charger figure out that the prices wouldn't fall any further on that particular day? Or do you have fixed rates for timeslots and it chooses the cheapest time?
I can set the charging time using an app. Every day at 12 noon the electricity board publishes the prices for the next day. I can then feed the info to the charger app and it goes into eco mode. At the set time it starts charging.

You can read about the home charger here:

https://zaptek.com

At these war times prices are very high and the government takes the bill for all prices over 0,7 NOK/kHw. We pay no more than that pluss taxes.

Here is the graph for today.

Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car-2b808b06f9724258a7dac6a811dc99ab.png

The charger app.

Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car-dc7fc916c50f491396fecd87784fd6db.png

Last edited by Indian2003 : 17th April 2022 at 12:45.
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Old 17th April 2022, 12:43   #29
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post

We too were contemplating why Tata would have provided this box with vehicle. Our conclusion was on similar lines as in the quoted posts. All this indicate how well Tata has done its ground research for average customer use-case.

From outside, it is simple standard weatherproof box, with Tata Ziptron branding :

Make : Legrand
Components : RCCB [2pole, 240V, 25A, 30mA] [Link], Switch & Socket [15A]
Physical Safety : Lock & Key
Weatherproofing : Rubber gasket

This setup is good reference for anyone who's looking to install plug-points in open for EV or otherwise.

For any electrical setup, particularly in open/ exposed area, RCCBs are must to prevent mishap. Kudos to Tata for thinking it through.
Looks like the perfect setup. Even if the manufacturer is not offering something similar, a local electrician should be able to set this up just by looking at this pictures.
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Old 17th April 2022, 13:14   #30
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Re: Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car

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Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
How can this work out in such a scenario? Since the electricity generation and bulk consumption will be on different meters.
Net metering won't apply in such a case. However, there are other solutions that are not so optimal but may become better in future.
One simple way is to generate power and connect it to a meter of household and as long as your car charging usage is around similar or lesser than your house meter, it's still workable. Only your house bill gets offset and not your car bill.

Another option is to invest in a solar generation service who invest on your behalf and credit the generation cost to your account. This obviously means that the middle man is talking some fee, but workable for apartment owners who may be have access to the roof to install solar panels. SundayGrids.com is one example, although I don't exactly know how good/bad the deal is.

The point is, while it's nice to generate your own power and run your car with it, practically it involves other infrastructure and may vary based on your city, support from discom and depends on whether you have space to install the panels or not.

Last edited by deep_bang : 17th April 2022 at 13:20.
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