[officer416]

Ya right. Hypocrisy at its finest. Dude sets up a plant in Texas where he is not allowed to sell cars directly to customers unless he hands out a franchise, which he will never do.
Then comes back to spread misinformation that India isn't allowing him to sell his cars. No one stopped you, it's just you have to pay import duties just like others.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by volkman10

TESLA makes it clear:

Will not manufacture in India unless allowed first to sell & service cars (presume it's all about import duties)

There is a world of difference between ‘not allowed to sell cars’ and being made to pay import duties. I don’t think any other country has given import duty concessions to Tesla, so Tesla is very much welcome to sell cars in India as CBUs after paying the import duties as in any other country. If Range Rovers, Maybachs and Volves can be assembled in India despite the low volumes, Tesla can be too!

I adore Musk for his contribution to electric cars and space travel but he’s being a man-baby here as usual.

[veedub89]

Who needs Tesla anyway?
I mean apart from the rabid Elon Musk fans who would even buy his bodily fluids if he started selling them.

BMW just launched the i4 at a pretty decent price point.
The Model 3 would definitely be at a similar price had it been launched.

We now have EV options at almost all price points. Starting from the Nexon to the EQC.
If you really want to buy an EV, you have a lot of options today.

Every Tesla model has a direct competitor and I think we have those competitors in India already.

As EVs gain popularity, more models will be launched and the charging infrastructure will improve. Tesla's role in all this will be minimal, I think. Heck, if they can't commit to building a factory in India, they sure as hell won't commit to building a charging infrastructure first.

[Durango Dude]

With our Govt laying thick layers of taxes at every level even for the players operating in India, it's a futile for any business to succeed here except a few who a focused to succeed: Maruti, Hyundai, Kia; rest are made to watch from the sidelines eg Honda (is literally clueless and sleep walking in the Indian market) and other's badge engineer cars to stay in the reckoning Toyota & Maruti partnership...Local players (TATA and Mahindra) have it tougher they need to buy companies abroad or enter a JV and get the that injection of technology and then compete with the International players here. Govt is actually doing 'Dadagiri' with it's taxation regime. Only party that laughs all the way to the bank is the Govt, not the maker or the consumer. This sort of taxation actually fuels inflation and hits consumers and makers and depresses the market...Totally arbitrary taxation regime which will change from Govt to Govt be it center or state not to talk of the level of corruption one has to encounter getting projects cleared from the umpteen depts of Govt. Insatiable hunger for taxes by the Indian Govt will kill industry: akin to the goose laying golden eggs story...

[volkman10]

Ola's CEO responds to Elon Musk's tweet, as Ola looks for sites to build its cell and electric car factories.

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Ola's CEO responds to Elon Musk's tweet, as Ola looks for sites to build its cell and electric car factories.

Attachment 2313464

Bhavish can smile and jeer since he is hiding behind the protective 'palu' of the Govt. He can sell his 'self igniting' electric scooter only here in India..

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by carmayogi

I think the majority here are missing the point.

Norway removed VAT on all EVs to promote their adoption.

India reduced GST on EVs to just 5%. On the other hand, ICE vehicles that compete with Teslas have a GST of ~50%. The tax benefit for EVs vs ICEs is much higher in India than in Norway. Not just EVs, India also reduced GST on charging equipment to just 5%.

China removed the requirement for a local joint venture to encourage Tesla's factory.

In India, you don't need to partner with any local company at all.

Germany accelerated their permit approval process to let Tesla's factory open sooner.

India also can accelerate the permit approvals for Tesla or any other company. Kia was able to complete the construction of the factory from foundation to mass production in less than 2 years which is about the same time Tesla took for the German factory. Kia factory location was rocky area and the local state government leveled and handover the land in a very quick time which even surprised the Kia officials.
[/quote]

The US offered a $7500 tax credit on EVs (up to 200k units per manufacturer).
Almost every European country offers some tax benefit and some perks to EV drivers.

While US and European countries offer some subsidies, they also charge huge VAT (~20%) which is reduced to just 5% by India as I mentioned above.

Elon Musk and Tesla should stop bickering over taxation in India. It is the same for every company and will be the same in the future as well. Don't expect the govt to change the policy which helped generate thousands of jobs over the last 2 decades. That too for some luxury (price-wise) car manufacturer to import a few hundred vehicles per year.

But who is stopping Tesla to import and sell cars in India even with current taxation? If BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Hyundai, and Kia can import EVs as CBUs and sell here, what is stopping Tesla from doing the same?

Tesla can also set up a small assembly unit as they had in the Netherlands long back, they can reduce the import taxes by a huge amount (from 100% to as low as just 15%). Total taxes on imported CKD EVs are lesser than locally made ICE vehicles.

[venom_op]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

India reduced GST on EVs to just 5%. On the other hand, ICE vehicles that compete with Teslas have a GST of ~50%. The tax benefit for EVs vs ICEs is much higher in India than in Norway. Not just EVs, India also reduced GST on charging equipment to just 5%.

I don't understand how 5% is more than 0%. Also the import duty in Norway and US for EVs is 0% as opposed to our 100% customs duty.

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

While US and European countries offer some subsidies, they also charge huge
VAT (~20%) which is reduced to just 5% by India as I mentioned above.

I don't know where you got the 20% vat. The US gives $7500 of federal tax credit. And California registration charges for EVs over $60k is $175.







I've never seen a VAT charge for an EV purchase. I dont' see it on their websites either.

Also that 5% tax is on 100% customs duty when imported, as I mentioned above, and again on the purchase of the vehicle.

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by venom_op

I don't understand how 5% is more than 0%. Also the import duty in Norway and US for EVs is 0% as opposed to our 100% customs duty.

Well, my point was there is a huge benefit of lower taxes for EVs in India compared to ICE vehicles that are being sold here. Norway does not have any import duty because its car market is very small and no one is going to set up a factory. By the way, Norway already started charging VAT and in future they will remove all the tax waivers for EVs.

I don't know where you got the 20% vat. The US gives $7500 of federal tax credit. And California registration charges for EVs over $60k is $175.

I've never seen a VAT charge for an EV purchase. I dont' see it on their websites either.

Also that 5% tax is on 100% customs duty when imported, as I mentioned above, and again on the purchase of the vehicle.

VAT of 20% is mostly in European countries. I combined the US and European in my quotes by mistake. But in the US also many states have sales tax. Also, many states do not allow Tesla to open its own showrooms either. $7,5000 tax benefit expired for Tesla long back and that is actually a negative for them as the competition still gets those.

As I said earlier, Tesla should stop bickering over taxation. If they want to sell cars, then import and sell. No one is stopping Tesla to sell and service its cars in India. It's just a blatant lie. If he doesn't see a huge market in India for Tesla cars with import taxes, then announce the same.

[GForceEnjoyer]

The lower tax idea can technically be implemented but it has to be carefully planned to avoid it turning into an inherent bureaucratic nightmare. Giving only one manufacturer these benefits is a no-go. What can be done however, is provide benefits only to manufacturers who make EVs.

To close the "compliance car" loophole, the amount of benefits a manufacturer receives can be tied to the percentage of EVs in their lineup. CAFE norms work in a similar way.

However import duties in India are honestly atrocious; lowering them to some extent can help improve choice in the market in the short run, but still not take away incentive to manufacture locally in the long run.

[volkman10]

Tesla India policy executive quits after company puts entry plan on hold.


Link

[payeng]

Dear Tesla: TATA (Pun Intended)

[volkman10]

Audi joins Tesla, says cut duty on EVs



Audi has said that import duty for environmentally clean electrics should be fixed at 5%, in line with what is reserved for those making locally, instead of the over 200% cumulative taxes reserved for the general gamut of imported cars, including sports and petrol/diesel vehicles.


Tesla had made a similar relaxation demand on greens, but later decided to go slow on its India plans after the government refused to play ball.


Link

[man_and_machine]

Apple after many years had to bite the bullet. Same philosophy of 'India as the second rung of countries' where the launches a staggered. There is a cost of R&D and there is the faster iteration cycle when its a relatively new tech. But, you will have to figure both out. No one is asking for the R&D to be in India. Even Enfield has their design studio outside india.
The commitment to manufacture, is what is needed. Even existing players who have been here don't want to commit to it. Ford, could have converted their factories for churn out EVs, but that did not happen.
Manufacturing ICs are different, and manufacturing EVs are different. We are can't locally source battery and electronics. Tesla China is different here. The EU is also different, as its a high margin (in dollar terms) market.
But, this is got more to do with the thinking from the auto companies, where they are using decades old playbook to look at the Indian market, but the Govt. sees is differently.
What can change the philosophy is what the EU is doing. Create a no new IC beyond a particular date (some 2035, 2040 etc). That will ensure policy direction, commitment to open the market for EVs and create a possibility for a predictable investment. We are a large market, not like Norway or any other country and there will be a much large denominator to work with, which is an advantage for manufacturers.

[abhijet.sen]

It is same like Tesla, they won't provide firm commitments/plans to manufacture the cars but want subsidy for profiteering. For R&D purpose as gentleman is trying to make the case, Audi will not need even hundreds of car. Even more than 10 is too much. They can import select few and start testing them in different terrains and weather conditions in India and start fine tuning.

I don't think ethically they can get data from consumer cars unless it is agreed between customer and Audi. Thousands of consumer car will yield no result if customer is not willing. But then they can always extract it during servicing of the car or even OTA. India privacy laws are not that mature yet and they can happily exploit the loopholes to get all the data.

Barring 1-2 outliers, all the successful manufacturers in India seems to have excellent localisation. Despite that most of the foreign manufacturers will try avoiding it and bring it from as import. This in itself causes prices to get inflated and people lose interest apart from few enthusiast.