[myavu]

What Tesla did is better for their business model.

I don't understand why people compare Tesla to (Fossil fueled) MB, BMW, AUDI, Lexus, etc. manufactured in India.

Tesla's business model revolves around their unique and efficient charging network system and the efficient battery manufacturing process. This is a huge investment and they can't simply push billions for selling merely 1000 cars per month. Tesla needs to price their Model 3 LFP single motor standard 370 KMs range close to 30 Lakhs. The current import tax structure won't allow that. Tesla has been already successful with Global Exports from Shanghai GF and they are already in the process to double the output with a new factory next to the existing one. So they don't require a GF in India for any exports.

I completely agree with @Turbanator We can live comfortably with the TATAs importing BMS Modules and Batteries or even Electric Motors from China, but Tesla cannot, that too a proper fast EV with all aluminium body.

Our Government missed a golden chance Tesla would have created their pan India charging infrastructure, showrooms and service centers, solar farms, megapack battery farms, wind turbines, etc. which would have generated huge employment.

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Mixed reactions but I'll run with the Atmanirbhar theme. What is the staggering difference between MB, VAG, BMW & Tesla? Why should Tesla suddenly get the benefit of lower duties especially when the entire value creation is carried out in China?

MoRTH under Gadkari is doing good work, and I'm sure we would not have turned down a practical, reasonable but committed proposal from Tesla.

Exactly my thoughts, people think Musk is a genious. If he is, then let him import his cars as CBUs and pay the taxes until he is sure of the market. Who is stopping him? Each market is different. The EU, UK and US economy has hit it's peak and is now crawling (compared to GDP growth nos. with India and other Asian economies). Musk may be a good negotiator but when you are at the table, there is give and take.

[Shresth_EV]

My sole takeaway from the event is that lack of competition is only a loss for consumers, Tesla has nothing to lose since they had not much to gain much anyway — at best 4 digit sales an year. As rightly mentioned by a fellow BHPian, they can sell more in a week in China than an year in India.

But, always remember, more competition is a win-win for both, but lack of it is only a loss for consumer. (When talking about new tech)

This is probably smartphone 2.0 all over again, we squandered various smartphone manufacturing opportunities, when we need to be grabbing the all the ones we get. Not because India needs it, but Indians (consumers) need it, because the law will always put imported items at a cost disadvantage — for the Indian.

The loss to country in terms of export opportunity et al is secondary. We already use several products knowingly and unknowingly which aren’t made locally. But what we do see the effect of, directly, is the prices and the competing products’ features.

And sour grapes won’t help with it.
Don’t say we don’t need Tesla for XYZ reason, Many said we don’t need iPhone factory back when we lost the deal in 2015. Now the same people post how “iPhone 13 is made in India now” on their timeline. (Assemebled* , but headlines say otherwise, you know media, don’t you?)

Many users mentioned how India doesn’t need Tesla, that’s true, consumers need Tesla. Look at it from perspective of a consumer.

The fact that they give Germans a run for their money could promote them to make better EVs in EU/USA. Do you think the EQS would exist if not for Model S?

If nothing, at least supercharger network (however expensive to charge for non Teslas) will promote EV transition.

Other threads mention how the 30L-90L bracket has dearth of EV options. Well, that thread alone makes it clear people want EVs in that price range. And that’s the vocal enthusiasts here.

Many non BHPians would think alike, too. If not Tesla, at least the presence of Tesla will promote Stellantis, Nissan, and other global EV brands to come.

Think about it, Tesla is the iPhone of EVs. Some or other brand would’ve eventually pioneered the smartphone if not for iPhone. But it would’ve taken, god knows how long. I agree with the govt decision on this though, but not with those who say that “India doesn’t need Tesla”.

India doesn’t need Tesla because it’s a cool car with gizmos that youtubers can show off or because it’s the best electric car so we ought to have it made here. Indians need Tesla so that Tata, Mahindra, and other foreign brands work harder.

[yashg]

India is just too small a market for Tesla to bother with right now. India is a long term play. Only Japanese and Koreans are patient enough to play it. When Suzuki and Hyundai entered India, it was a miniscule market. But they waited and are now finally reaping the benefits. Tesla could have done that but American car makers just don't have it in their DNA. India may be a small market as compared to their home markets but Indians are now moving up the value chain. People are now buying their 3rd or 4th cars and are ready to shell out 30L for a safe and sturdy car which comes loaded with features. Tesla could have gotten a piece of that pie. But they want preferential treatment and there is no reason to treat them any different. Eventual beneficiaries of this are going to be Chinese manufacturers. They'll bring components from China and assemble locally. MG is already ahead in the game. More will follow.

[PreludeSH]

Even non-Tesla premium car makers are not looking at end to end manufacturing of EVs. So Tesla also would only be interested in selling its cars and not fostering the complete ecosystem. The latter is what we want them to do but given the numbers its not sustainable for them.

Since they are at the higher end, not a big loss for normal consumers. Really good to see Tata growing day to day looking at Nexon EVs on road. Time for both India and Tesla to forget each other until we reach 5 or 7 trillion dollar economy

[fiat_tarun]

This was always going to be a non-starter since the govt. can't create special policy for 1 player while the others have invested in the country years ago, that too for a niche luxury EV player.

On the Tesla side, setting up a plant for such low volume was also never going to make sense.

The fact is that parts / component ecosystem for EV's in India is also just about starting and it will be a while before we can lower our dependence on China.

Credit to the government for the PLI schemes to encourage investments into advanced technologies and for OEM's to build more vehicles. I hope this is successful and more OEM's look to export from India, because let's face it, we are not going to be able to compete with the US & China. With our taxation policies on vehicles and overall infrastructure, we will probably grow till about 5-6 million cars a year and hover around that.

[srini1785]

I don't know what "demands" Tesla made for India entry but the other great American company, Apple wanted a 15 year relief from import duty among many other concessions for making iPhones in India. Such were the other "Demands" that the normally reticent Govt Babus smirked at such concessions.

Samsung filled in the void and set up its biggest smartphone factory near Delhi. Probably Tesla will come to India through the CBU route and cost upwards of 50L.

[carmayogi]

I think the majority here are missing the point.

Norway removed VAT on all EVs to promote their adoption.
China removed the requirement for a local joint venture to encourage Tesla's factory.
Germany accelerated their permit approval process to let Tesla's factory open sooner.
The US offered a $7500 tax credit on EVs (up to 200k units per manufacturer).
Almost every European country offers some tax benefit and some perks to EV drivers.

The question is not about nationalism or chest thumping or whatever. It is about a technological and fundamental change in the industry and logic dictates that you move forward quickly or be left behind.

Allowing Tesla to import CBUs with low or no tax would lead to investment in a charging network. Note that now Tesla is opening their network in EU to all cars, so it is creating fertile ground for the death of ICE engines in Europe. Norway is already over 60% EVs in their new car sales.

The knock on effects of bringing a brand that is pushing the EV transition would be immense but we have failed to grasp it.

Finally, the lack of support from BMW, Mercedes etc is because Tesla would eat their lunch. I only say this based on evidence from sales patterns everywhere especially in the US & China. The German brands are scared, only VW group stands a chance currently because they invested in EVs early as a settlement for the dieselgate scandal.

[raghupro]

Average cost of cars sold in Germany - EUR 37500 (source -https://www.statista.com/statistics/425095/eu-car-sales-average-prices-in-by-country/)
Cost of Tesla model 3 in Germany - EUR 50000 (source - https://www.electrive.com/2021/01/21...ces-in-europe/)
% more than average cost - 33.3%

Average cost of cars sold in India - INR 7,70,000 (source - https://gaadiwaadi.com/average-price...2%B9-7-7-lakh/)
Cost of Tesla model 3 in India with 0 import duty (expected) - Rs. 30,00,000 (read online, please correct me if I am wrong)
% more than average cost - 389%

Wasn’t sure where to deduce how many cars are sold in India that cost above Rs. 30,00,000 lakhs but here are two sources found.
1. In march 2022, premium category cars sold in India accounted to 0.1% overall and if you include D2 segment as well it accounted to 1.34%. Source - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-analysis.html (March 2022 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis)
2. In year 2021, around 23k premium cars were sold in India (source - https://www.rushlane.com/india-luxur...-12423413.html)

What scope does Tesla have in India, even with a complete waiver of import duties?
Why does the nation have to provide special incentives to support the elite society who are the ones who can afford a Tesla in India?
Will Tesla still be able to generate enough sales to set up a robust charging infra in a country as large as India with such minimal sales? Do note, our nation is many folds larger than what European nations are. Even in the US, Tesla still doesn’t have a widespread charging infra on many routes.

Irrespective of reasons for low sales of MG ZS EV and brushing aside the country of origin sentiment. Tata Nexon accounting to almost 90% sales in EV 4 wheeler space as opposed to MG ZS EV barely accounting to 5% might shed some light on how well an EV with price close to Rs. 30,00,000 lakh might perform as compared to an EV that costs around Rs. 20,00,000.

Even after all the expected incentives demanded by Tesla, I personally feel our nation doesn’t have the spending capacity to generate massive sales for Teslas in India to an extent that we can expect the company to revolutionise EV segment. On the contrary, the sub 20L segment is where we can expect an impact to be created and potentially turn into mass cars.

Be it late to the market or not being as advanced as Tesla, Tata Motors has been doing a decent job at expanding the charging infra in our country and so are many third party players. Unless the likes of Mahindra, Suzuki, Tata Motors, Hyundai and Kia go for indigenous manufacturing and churn out mass market EVs costing sub 20L, we can’t expect a revolution in EV space in India.

Purely my thoughts duly considering the Indian context.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by raghupro

--- we can’t expect a revolution in EV space in India.

--

Two main criteria for success of EV scene in India(for ~INR 20lakh car). Until then it will be a niche segment.

1. Range (bare minimum need of 600km)
2. Charging infrastructure

[venom_op]

Originally Posted by carmayogi

I think the majority here are missing the point.
.

Thank you, sir! Finally, someone who sees what I see. We lost a huge opportunity to actually promote EV adoption. Tesla may get a tax break for their cars but in turn, they would set up world-class charging facilities across the country which would do a lot.

Also, it's sometimes good to be a little selfish. Why wouldn't you want a technologically advanced car for cheaper?

Originally Posted by MMV

Tesla will have to (and should also) abide by the rules of a country if they want to do business there, and that too of a nation with huge market potential like ours.

Sadly our potential is miniscule next to most major markets. India sold 17k EVs last year. China sold 1.14 million and EU sold 1.06 million and US sold 297 million in only H1 2021.

Potential, yes. in the current scenario, not very likely.

Wishful thinking of Tesla coming to India (either by diluting their ask or GoI modifying the rules) and benefiting the consumers may not become a reality soon (unless back channel negotiations give an interesting proposition to all parties). Having said that if Tesla chooses to ignore India (considering it is a small market - considering the selling price of their cars) it is more likely to benefit the competitors of Tesla in the long run. These players can offer their cars and improve them, based on market feedback and road (also climate) conditions. This market space (and some luxury of time) may not be available when a company which is superior in technology is breathing down their neck.

3-5 years down the line we all can see the results (then it would make for an interesting analysis)

But the point is that these manufacturers aren't even competing with local players.

They are playing in a completely different price bracket. The point is that there SHOULD be incentives for EV buyers for adopting them. Whether that goes to the companies who can then price their products better, or directly to the consumer who is making the effort to reduce carbon emissions. Currently, you pay the same tax on a gas-guzzling Fortuner that you do on a Camry Hybrid or even the imported EVs.

[itwasntme]

News like this makes it even more unlikely that the GoI will cut deals with luxury EV makers .

If Hyundai can take such a step, why not Tesla? They should do a soft launch with EU-made CBU cars and put out a clear gameplan on this mythical plan they have to install their superchargers across India. One is not dependent on the other.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...n-india-424520

[venom_op]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

News like this makes it even more unlikely that the GoI will cut deals with luxury EV makers .

If Hyundai can take such a step, why not Tesla? They should do a soft launch with EU-made CBU cars and put out a clear gameplan on this mythical plan they have to install their superchargers across India. One is not dependent on the other.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...n-india-424520

Off the top of my head, big difference here is that Hyundai already has factories here which make cars other than EVs. So all they have to do is allocate a portion of the space. As opposed to Tesla who has to start at ground Zero and won’t be able to reallocate space to other cars if it doesn’t work out because all they have are EVs.

Also AFAIK, Hyundai and Kia were both supportive of Tesla’s idea for incentives for EV imports.

I always say this, if cars get cheaper the biggest beneficiary is always the consumer which is us.

[tanbeamer]

Originally Posted by officer416

Tesla will be fit for India once they sort out their customer service. People here can't bear the customer service experience from Tata and Mahindra, wait till you experience Tesla's customer service. I mean non existent customer support, keep sending emails and you might get response if Tesla gods are looking upon you that day.

Tesla's customer service works only till the time you book a car from them. If you by mistake ever show an interest, they will keep bugging you with emails and phone calls. But then the moment you book, they will ghost you.

[volkman10]

TESLA makes it clear:

Will not manufacture in India unless allowed first to sell & service cars (presume it's all about import duties)







On Starlink project: