[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

2. With the current BMS people are scared to do slow charging in the always plugged in mode. This has to change from the design perspective of the EV platform

.

What is BMS? I thought that plugging in overnight is safe?

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by DustyWanderer

Before starting my Wishlist for an EV, these are my opinions about some concerning matters.
1. India should cope with the massive electricity demand due to the EV purchases at each home in the future. Else each and every EV will be a burden on our country.

Yes but not much more burden than the ever increasing oil bills. Solar power is currently the cheapest source of power and can solve our balance of payment issues. Providing slow charging (payed) at offices can ensure that one can use this solar power directly at day time.

2. India still produces 75% of its electricity through coal, so it is impossible for a 100% EV transition. Hence the Government should look for a parallel solution, one such is the Hybrid.

The time for hybrid is already gone. Hybrid is equivalent to BEV with 100% unclean grid
(may be even worse). BEV with 75% clean grid is a significant improvement. Together with ubiquitous slow charging can lead to better utilisation of green electricity.

3. Clean and proper process for battery recycling.

This will come up because of the huge business possibilities it offers.

4. If India does not manufacture batteries, then we will still be fully dependent on China and other countries. We are already slaves to other countries for our oil purchases, I don't want my India to be a slave again for purchasing battery as well.

Problem with China exists but this is overstated. The battery for an EV is for its life time
unlike oil which is for every run of the car. Makes a lot of difference. Also setting up a battery manufacturing is not as difficult as getting oil (pure luck/misfortune).

5. I know that EV is not our future and is just a temporary fix for the pollution issue until we find a more compatible solution. I am looking forward for the Hydrogen engine transition.

Hydrogen FCEV is a bad idea, Hydrogen ICE is not even an idea. So the only viable option for using Hydrogen cars is lucid dreaming.

https://youtu.be/JlOCS95Jvjc?si=-ekxNIyR5xMwNeuJ

https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=v2nsFT1JbgDJscvt

My one and only Wishlist for an EV is that it should have Battery Swap Technology Subscription model where I can quickly swap for a charged battery under 5minutes and gain another 200 to 300km of range.

When charging become ubiquitous then this is not needed at all particularly if you practice "always plugged in when parked" charging.

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by nidhikapoor

What is BMS?

Battery Management System, the software/hardware that deals with charging discharging of your battery and its cooling system.

I thought that plugging in overnight is safe?

Yes it is safe but the general recommentation for longer life (in terms of time not in terms of cycles) is that you discharge till say about 20%SoC and charge till 100%. Normally the battery life is measured in charging cycles (typically for LFP batteries it is like 3000+ cycles). Nexon EV also recommends once in a while discharging below 10% SoC and then charging.

In any case unless you are a battery expert, which most of us here are not, it is best to follow what your manual says and not go by random advice on the internet.

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by DustyWanderer

Before starting my Wishlist for an EV, these are my opinions about some concerning matters.
1. India should cope with the massive electricity demand due to the EV purchases at each home in the future. Else each and every EV will be a burden on our country.
2. India still produces 75% of its electricity through coal, so it is impossible for a 100% EV transition. Hence the Government should look for a parallel solution, one such is the Hybrid.
3. Clean and proper process for battery recycling.
4. If India does not manufacture batteries, then we will still be fully dependent on China and other countries. We are already slaves to other countries for our oil purchases, I don't want my India to be a slave again for purchasing battery as well.
5. I know that EV is not our future and is just a temporary fix for the pollution issue until we find a more compatible solution. I am looking forward for the Hydrogen engine transition.


My one and only Wishlist for an EV is that it should have Battery Swap Technology Subscription model where I can quickly swap for a charged battery under 5minutes and gain another 200 to 300km of range.

To reply to your points one by one

1. Power generation will keep up. Especially if we encourage local renewable sources all adding to the grid. Differential pricing can help encourage EV charging during off peak hours.

2. Even from coal sourced power, EVs are far less polluting, AND the pollution is 'outsourced', for want of a better word, and our cities will be more breathable.

3. Battery recycling is already being done.

4. We sadly lack so many natural resources we have no option.

5. Hydrogen is FAR less efficient than electricity but will likely be used where currently diesel is used like big ships etc.

Battery swap for cars will never happen. Batteries are built in to the chassis so as to add structural rigidity and also the weight precludes the possibility of swapping.

[DustyWanderer]

Originally Posted by nidhikapoor

To reply to your points one by one

1. Power generation will keep up. Especially if we encourage local renewable sources all adding to the grid. Differential pricing can help encourage EV charging during off peak hours.

2. Even from coal sourced power, EVs are far less polluting, AND the pollution is 'outsourced', for want of a better word, and our cities will be more breathable.

3. Battery recycling is already being done.

4. We sadly lack so many natural resources we have no option.

5. Hydrogen is FAR less efficient than electricity but will likely be used where currently diesel is used like big ships etc.

Battery swap for cars will never happen. Batteries are built in to the chassis so as to add structural rigidity and also the weight precludes the possibility of swapping.

We do have the battery swapping technology in place by "Ample".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOsy_EvtHr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5BPL4Nm1q0

[wocanak]

I will keep my wish list to the minimum.

Infrastructure

1) Common payment system for sure, but there is no need for an RFID card or new method. The CCS2 standard supports identifying a car, simply plugging in your car should start charging (assuming you have non-zero balance). This is already the case with a few charging point providers like Zeon, just make it work across all chargers and have common wallet which you can recharge (like FastTag). While credit card or other payment option at the charger would be nice, there is no need for that.

2) Common app to show availability and status of chargers across providers. Right now you need a savvy co-passenger to juggle across the various apps to find out which charger is working and available.

Vehicle

3) Minimum range of 350 Kms at realistic highway speeds, for comparison the Nexon Max/LR minimum is ~200 Kms (or bit above) at realistic highway speeds.

Common

4) Car and charger should support 250 Kms range addition with 20 mins of charging. This will roughly need 120 KW charging support by charger and car.

Only (1) and (2) need to be developed, (3) and (4) are already available and just need to be more widespread.

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by DustyWanderer

We do have the battery swapping technology in place by "Ample".

Not practical and will never become main stream.

[DustyWanderer]

Originally Posted by nidhikapoor

Not practical and will never become main stream.

But just imagine, if more than 70% of the cars gets powered by electric, then we do not have enough space to park these cars and scooters for charging. Another issue is that the self centered humans will always put the car for charging and go to some eatery and never bother to come back and check.
What if on very hot summer day, an Oley Scooter (Name changed) decides to fast charge in the middle where several other vehicles are being charged?

Battery Swap Technology for cars is the way to go forward to avoid any unnecessary congestions, security & risks risks and pile up of vehicles at any favorite spots.

[Chrome6Boy]

Originally Posted by DustyWanderer

But just imagine, if more than 70% of the cars gets powered by electric, then we do not have enough space to park these cars and scooters for charging. Another issue is that the self centered humans will always put the car for charging and go to some eatery and never bother to come back and check.
What if on very hot summer day, an Oley Scooter (Name changed) decides to fast charge in the middle where several other vehicles are being charged?

Battery Swap Technology for cars is the way to go forward to avoid any unnecessary congestions, security & risks risks and pile up of vehicles at any favorite spots.

I think in the next few decades, the number of chargers and also charging speeds will increase drastically. You may be right in the short term however. I don't see battery swap becoming mainstream for cars.

Our first smart phones required overnight charges, now budget phones can charge within an hour or two. Technology will improve drastically.

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by Chrome6Boy

I think in the next few decades, the number of chargers and also charging speeds will increase drastically. You may be right in the short term however. I don't see battery swap becoming mainstream for cars.

Our first smart phones required overnight charges, now budget phones can charge within an hour or two. Technology will improve drastically.

We dont need to look into the future. 350kw chargers and charging tech is already available. That is plenty fast.

[UD17]

Only 3 Wishlist items for me:

1. Safety
2. Charge anxiety
3. Affordability

[EeshanChatterje]

Originally Posted by DustyWanderer

But just imagine, if more than 70% of the cars gets powered by electric, then we do not have enough space to park these cars and scooters for charging. Another issue is that the self centered humans will always put the car for charging and go to some eatery and never bother to come back and check.

Battery Swap Technology for cars is the way to go forward to avoid any unnecessary congestions, security & risks risks and pile up of vehicles at any favorite spots.

These are valid concerns but we see solutions coming up in China, The Nordic countries, Canada and the US.
Many nordic countries have almost a 1:1 charger to car ratio, with most of the chargers being level 2 chargers installed in public parking.
Between home charging (despite the issues apartment complexes place today, my bet is that in 2-3 years time, anyone wanting to install a home charger will be legally allowed to, regardless of where they live), slow public charging (see nexus malls in bangalore, chennai and other cities) and fast charging with charging limits (80-85% limit) and idle charges (tesla has this already, some in India are bringing it for popular chargers) - charging will be the way to go.

Battery swap is interesting, but the economics don't work out for 4 wheelers. NIO's financials are proof of that.
Swappable batteries in 4 wheelers increase costs considerably for the vehicle, esp because the pressurized cooling system becomes a lot more complex.
Further, the number of battery packs required is estimated to be anywhere between 3:1 to 7:1 depending on density and expected usage patterns. At peak, (think holidays) this number can shoot up to 9:1 as well. With the battery costing 20-40% of the cost of the car for most sub $50000 EVs, this battery investment isn't economical. The alternative, where each battery can be put in a car and sold, is much more economical for companies (and therefore for customers).

[privin]

Originally Posted by DustyWanderer

But just imagine, if more than 70% of the cars gets powered by electric, then we do not have enough space to park these cars and scooters for charging.

This will not be a problem at all. We should assume that most charging will happen at homes or offices.

How many will use public chargers?
- Long distance highway travellers - About 3-4 for most in a year.
- Frequent travellers between nearby cities, such as Pune-Mumbai. Mainly business travel.
- Those who don't have own parking space at home.

So if we assume that load on petrol pumps (converted to EV charging stations) will be only 20% of current load, but each vehicle will consume 1 hour instead of 10 min, then roughly it matches, so no change needed..

More important considerations:
- Anyone with some parking can out up charging station. Shops, restaurents etc.
- Renting overnight parking for charging is already feasible. 7kw chargers are hardly Rs. 25k.
- Cost of all kinds of chargers will reduce in price as deployments increase.
- If govt can incentivize solar rooftop and achieve Rs. 4 to 5 per unit (as opposed to commercial Rs. 15 today), it will be a big boost.