[NomadSK]

Volvo Cars India's preliminary official statement on the matter;

"We are aware of an incident on Saturday involving a fire on a C40 while being driven. The embedded safety features informed the driver to take the car aside and step out of the car. There were no injuries & all occupants were safe. Our Customer Care call center was online to guide the customer on requisite safety measures. At Volvo Cars we pride ourselves on the safety of our cars and have taken this incident very seriously. The said vehicle will be minutely examined by our technical experts to ascertain the cause. We are in touch with and continue to support the customer."

[Prado]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Just a question out of academic interest. Is there any mention under "Caution/Warning" in EV manuals that suggest the owners NOT to drive the car at very high speed/it's top speed for longer durations.

I'm not speculating but just want to know if there's any mention of cautious steps to follow during high speed runs, in the car's manual. EV owners may be able to chip in.

Every car would have a top speed limit set by the manufacturer considering various criteria including the capability of the powertrain (ICE/battery), vehicle dynamics, mechanicals, etc. All vehicles (including EVs) will have fall back solutions as well like "limp home" mode in case an overheating is detected. So if the BMS (battery management system) algorithms in conjunction with other vehicle ECUs are running fine, there is no concern of a mishap due to overcharging or continuous high speed operations or aggressive accelerations. However, OEM would definitely prescribe the charging related protocol (AC and DC charging) and any deviation from that could cause unwarranted results.

Thermal runaway/propagation is a different scenario and often occurs very fast. There could be tell-tale warnings before an event and it differs from OEM to OEM how much of it could be detected. Even for battery fires, there are very few regulations as such globally. Some of the present regulations call for giving at least 5 minutes for the driver to get out of the vehicle safely. For this, many OEMs are providing multiple layers of thermal insulation to delay the propagation of fire outside the battery.

[TopLiveCentre]

I have this niggling doubt: when we return our storage battery for a new one we get some amount for the used one, if not wrong, not a paltry sum relatively. Why do we hear nothing about returning the used batteries and their possible value when it comes to EVs? Can anyone throw some light on this one?

[antony5279]

Not a fan of EV and this is one of the reasons. Recently at the Dubai air show I saw a Tesla go up in flames. And it was parked in the parking lot. Not even being driver. Temperatures were quite moderate.

[Prado]

Originally Posted by TopLiveCentre

I have this niggling doubt: when we return our storage battery for a new one we get some amount for the used one, if not wrong, not a paltry sum relatively. Why do we hear nothing about returning the used batteries and their possible value when it comes to EVs? Can anyone throw some light on this one?

An EV battery is said to have reached End of Life (EOL) when the capacity has deteriorated to such a level that the effective range (km) of the battery pack is much less than the new pack. Usually 70 - 80% of the original capacity is considered as EOL for EV.

However, the battery still has enough juice for other applications. If it could be modified appropriately, it could be used as a whole or in pieces for other stationary applications.

When the battery is beyond use for all applications, it is time to recycle the battery. This new business has already started - Battery recycling. More than 90% of the battery pack could be recycled back to its original raw materials including the minerals in the cells.

To answer your question of the financials involved, it cannot be generalised and said that EV is a higher depreciating commodity than an ICE vehicle. At this point of time, the OEMs would need to work out on the various possibilities like battery pack buyback, recycling, etc. As an example, Tesla assists its customers for decommissioning and recycling of battery packs.
https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling

[Kols]

Volvo in my mind was the least probable brand to see this fate.
Conspiracy theorists may say that Geely ownership and the Chinese supply chain connection for Volvo EV modes are to blame but I have a different perspective.

EV, being a new technology, is at a disadvantage of getting more publicity as compared to it's ICE counterparts.

A research done by a US/Aussie insurance aggregator supports this belief; see excerpt from the report below.
That being said, EV fires when caused by the battery, are a much difficult to control with a kiddo extinguisher that we all carry in our cars. Till the time the battery technology gets stable, I think putting EV-suitable safety measures in place would be prudent. If what Volvo says is true, that early-warning-signal-to-the-driver before fire broke out has in fact saved some precious lives in typical Volvo fashion.

Image source - https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-...ric-car-fires/

[Kevinrevvz]

Originally Posted by Redex

Yet another EV fire !!! I don't own a BEV and never will. What frightens me is the severity, intensity and speed of the fires. Diesel and petrol cars never burst into flames as rapidly as a BEV when being driven or just parked up.
It also worries me how easy it would be to get stuck inside with complete electronic failure. Petrol and diesel ICE cars give the occupant longer to get out in the event of a fire. Usually allowing sufficient time to smash a side window if the electronics don't work.
I will never travel in a BEV.
Right from the outset we have been misled by manufacturers. Battery life, range, charging times, service costs, reliability, tyre wear, service frequency etc etc. I don't trust BEVs, and I certainly wouldn't buy a BEV made in China, or a vehicle with a battery made in China.
Phones, toys, household items, 2 wheelers, cars, trucks, buses and boats with battery power have all caught fire. Even a battery prototype electric aircraft and train have caught fire.
The battery pack stores an enormous amount of energy that can all be released in a matter of seconds during a run away event and you can do nothing to stop it or put it out !!!
I think BEVs have been rushed onto the market without adequate time or effort being spent on safety of the battery pack.
Surely the battery and vehicle manufacturers must make the batteries safer and include measures to prevent or control a serious failure like a run away

Where was the Volvo C40 made ?

It's understandable to have concerns about BEV safety. However, statistically, EVs are less likely to catch fire than traditional vehicles and media has a tendency to blow up these EV fires as much as possible while completely ignoring several ICE fires that occur on a daily basis. EVs are designed with emergency procedures and manual release mechanisms to address electronic failure concerns. China is the leader in EV innovation and apprehension against them is uncalled for as they make some of the best EVs and EV components in the world. BYD's blade cells are tested to be the safest in the world and majority of EVs in the world use Chinese batteries including some Teslas. EV tech is ever evolving but the concept of an EV is anything but new since EVs were quite popular back in the early 1900s and battery tech has evolved considerably since then with the current crop of high voltage EVs been in development for the better part of a couple decades. While apprehensions are valid, one can't outright ignore the actual facts. The Volvo C40 in question is assembled in India with kits from Sweden and a Korean battery from LG. Its also the first reported case in the world of a Volvo EV fire.

[ohaak]

I don't understand why manufacturers don't license and use the blade technology for batteries from BYD. Those pass the nail puncture test without resulting in a fire. Tesla uses these for cars manufactured in Berlin Giga factory. https://www.hotcars.com/byds-blade-b...ium-ion-packs/

[DarthVeda]

Suspicion is on the battery pack used here, it is the NMC Pouch cell manufactured by LG Chem. It's the same one which was used before and started catching fire, Hyundai recalled many Kona earlier on, even in India, and replaced with Cylinderical or Prismatic ones.

I read that the pouch has an inherent design flaw in separating cathode and anode, which causes short and thus the fire.

There are few folks who have said "I am not buying EV for this reason etc.", I ask them what is their reaction when an ICE vehicle explodes or rapidly catches fire, burning the occupants inside them? At least in an EV, you can get out and quickly gather your belongings as well.

[enj0y_ride]

Last year, there was a fire incident with Nexon EV ( I guess parked vehicle ) and Tata Motors was supposed to share details post their investigation. Has anyone got any news on that?

[ds.raikkonen]

I am not an expert on EV fires but had read a Jalopnik article sometime back regarding a Tesla which had caught fire which was put out by fire fighters subsequently, consumed 6,000 gallons of water in the process. Also, the dash showed warning to exit the car but the owner could not due to power doors

When asked if fire foam would have been more effective, Metro Fire of Sacramento said “Unfortunately not. Fire foam works to smother oxygen, which breaks the fire triangle of the traditional combustion process. When lithium batteries burn, the cathode material breaks down and releases its own oxygen, so it will continue to burn through the foam.”

However, a day later, the car re-caught fire due to a hot spot somewhere deep in the battery system. THIS aspect disturbed me more than the fire itself, that you don't know for sure whether an EV fire has been put out or not.

Not only does the water cause lithium-ion batteries to combust, the minerals left behind after the battery packs dry out can spark fires days or weeks later. While it is much more likely an internal combustion engine will catch fire than an EV, such battery fires can be particularly difficult to fight. Despite years of development, fire departments are still shaky on how to handle EV fires. The usual move is to deny the fire oxygen, but that doesn’t work with lithium-ion, which can happily burn away without oxygen.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-c...day-1831228348

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-x-r...end-1850998617

[Raghuwire]

Originally Posted by ohaak

I don't understand why manufacturers don't license and use the blade technology for batteries from BYD. Those pass the nail puncture test without resulting in a fire. Tesla uses these for cars manufactured in Berlin Giga factory.

Fire can be caused by multiple reasons and not just nail penetration. Blade batteries use LFP chemistry which is inherently safer and have higher thermal runaway temperatures. High performance, high density applications typically use NMC chemistry.

Originally Posted by ottocycle

This is concerning. We need a thread that lists battery chemistry being used in all cars along with their variants in India.

Here you go:

NMC chemistry
Hyundai Ioniq
Hyundai Kona
BMW iX
Audi e-tron
Mercedes EQ series
Ola S1 & pro
Ather 450x
Volvo C40
Mahindra XUV400 (due to Korean lineage?)
Tesla (Not in India)

LFP chemistry

BYD Atto 3
Tata Nexon.ev
Tata Tiago/Tigor EV
Tata Punch.ev
MG Comet
MG ZS EV
Eicher Pro 2059(commercial)
Ashok Leyland Boss EV (Commercial, upcoming)
Montra EV( Commercial vehicles from Murugappa group)
BYD Q6 (Commercial Vehicle)
Altigreen NeeV(your e-com deliveries)
Switch EV buses/Tata EV buses/Olectra buses

Few other chemistries are available, for example Log 9 a Bangalore based company is working with Lithium Titanate, but not at full commercial scale.

I have tried to make this as exhaustive as I could. If you see the above most fires have been concentrated in one type of chemistry. Teslas blowing up during a hurricane in the US (Florida?). Worldwide recalls for Kona EV, Ola scooter fires and now the Volvo C40 (one off case?) Ther than this, there are tens of thousands of forklifts and other material handling equipments across the nation have been using LFP from past few years.

PS: If I have erred by mistake, request members to correct my understanding.

[RM Motorsports]

Volvo India’s Official Statement on this incident.

[TopLiveCentre]

Why do we see most of the luxury brands using one type of batteries? Can we read anything into it?

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by TopLiveCentre

Why do we see most of the luxury brands using one type of batteries? Can we read anything into it?

The only thing to read into it is that NMC batteries support higher pack density so you have more KWH in lesser space. Also, NMC batteries can be charged and discharged at a much higher rate than LFP batteries. Hence marquee brands which are performance oriented want to use NMC batteries. Only BYD has been able to achieve the same efficiencies with their LFP blade batteries.