[carboy]

So privacy is not important to you. But it's important to the country & democracy. A journalist who is breaking an anti-establishment story can be controlled if the Govt knows he was searching for escorts. Can be controlled by Govt knowing he was having an affair. Don't you think that's important?

Originally Posted by navin

I think India's shift towards a digital economy is beneficial. At some level (granted that this does not apply to the big fish) this shift has widened the tax net.

Has it really? I don't see it in the data. That aside, what I said above is more important to me.

Originally Posted by navin

It depends on the country. Each country has its own understanding of personal privacy. You have Estonia and Iceland at one end and North Korea and China at the other.
By your logic, Saudi Arabia should have the same permissibility for alcohol as France.

So what would be the line for you? At what point would you get upset? Saudi Arabia & North Korea's line? (This is not particularly about "you" - I am asking in general.

[navin]

Originally Posted by carboy

So privacy is not important to you. But it's important to the country & democracy.

Has it really? I don't see it in the data. That aside, what I said above is more important to me.

So what would be the line for you?

India is not a true democracy, and neither is the US. Most polls put the Scandinavian countries at the top.
https://wisevoter.com/country-rankin...tic-countries/
https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking

What data do you need? GST collections for example have improved. The leakages in our public distribution system have been reduced by most accounts.

Each of us has a different understanding of the "line." My sister, who has no opinion on politics, is happy to live in Singapore. Someone like me, who is always critical of the Government, might not be.

[Thad E Ginathom]

In a way it's all much of a muchness.

How does Instagram know to show me adverts of stuff I've looked at on Amazon? Two entirely separate companies.

If commercial entities can, governments, any government, can

[carboy]

Originally Posted by navin

India is not a true democracy, and neither is the US.

So you should be worried about this surveillance by Govt unless democracy is not important to you since it makes it worse for a country which is already not a democracy as per.

Originally Posted by navin

GST collections for example have improved.

Don't all taxes collections increase every year - Income Tax, Sales Tax every other tax. I have seen this all my adult life. Other than that, tax rates have also increased.

Originally Posted by navin

The leakages in our public distribution system have been reduced by most accounts.

Based on what do you say this?

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

How does Instagram know to show me adverts of stuff I've looked at on Amazon? Two entirely separate companies.
If commercial entities can, governments, any government, can

I can opt out of Instagram on any day. I can choose not to use instagram. It's not as easy to avoid Govt. Conflating Govt with a private company doesn't really add value to the argument.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by carboy

I can opt out of Instagram on any day. I can choose not to use instagram. It's not as easy to avoid Govt. Conflating Govt with a private company doesn't really add value to the argument.

Ah... Good point. Very true.

[binand]

Originally Posted by navin

On the face of it, once you sign into the internet you surrender your right to privacy.

That is a very defeatist view. On one side there are worldwide efforts to make both privacy (derived from right to life) and Internet access (derived from freedom of speech) as inviolable human rights. Here you are, willing to give away one of them without recompense.

Originally Posted by navin

For example, if I use Spotify to listen to music, I implicitly agree that Spotify and, by extension, everyone on the internet will know what music I listen to. If I do not want to share that information, I can stick to listening to albums and CDs, and no one will be the wiser (especially since in my specific case, most of my albums and CDs were purchased before the internet existed).

You don't. Since you took the Spotify example - they explicitly ask you to agree to this (and hopefully, as a reputable business, honour their users' choice).



(Also I presume you are not aware that most software players have the functionality to contact 3rd-party services to download things like album art, lyrics, subtitles etc. that all necessarily involve telling these services what is playing currently.)

Originally Posted by navin

If Google has your data, expect it to be shared with the US Government (FBI, CIA, NSA, etc) and, by extension, with the Governments of the UK, Germany, France, and all Governments that agree to share data...

This is probably a conspiracy theory. We know how this "sharing" has worked in Twitter thanks to Musk; which is basically not at all unless the appropriate paperwork was produced.

But I will give it to you that the resistance from Google/Apple will weaken over time, and by then we would have allowed these companies to know so much about us that we have to be very afraid starting now.

Originally Posted by navin

If you have nothing to hide, why worry so much?

This is the biggest fallacy. The Wikipedia article summarises the quick refutations readily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument

I would add these two:

1. "I have nothing to hide today" does not mean I won't have anything to hide tomorrow. I might learn something I've done in the past is actually wrong. Something benign today could become illegal in the future. And so on.
2. Everyone has something to hide. It might not be jail-worthy - could be something that might embarass them in their social groups, have monetary consequences, affect their relationships with their near and dear, negatively impact their careers and so on.

I defined privacy earlier as "our right to control who gets to observe and process our interactions and opinions". Each individual must be able to draw that control line where they wish. If your line is far to the right ("I don't need to control this"), that is totally fine - but you need to be aware that there would be others who'd draw that line further and further to the left of yours.

[airguitar]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/citie...740910877.html

I'm utterly dismayed. I was happy that someone actually took them to the court, but the verdict is not what I hoped for. Court rules that Trucaller cannot be banned. Can someone tell me why Trucaller s crowdsourcing of personal information is not a violation of privacy ? Amazingly, my privacy is violated even when I'm not a trucaller user, but some idiotic acquaintance of me happened to use it, my information is compromised too...

[binand]

Originally Posted by airguitar

Amazingly, my privacy is violated even when I'm not a trucaller user, but some idiotic acquaintance of me happened to use it, my information is compromised too...

You can unlist your phone number in Truecaller: https://www.truecaller.com/unlisting - it is one of the first things I do, along with full DND, whenever I (or anyone else in my family) get a new number.

Originally Posted by airguitar

Can someone tell me why Trucaller s crowdsourcing of personal information is not a violation of privacy?

The person who uploaded your contact information to Truecaller - how did they get access to it? Chances are that you provided it to them. Did you specify any restrictions on what all they could do with your info, at that time? If not then there is no case here.

[airguitar]

Originally Posted by binand

You can unlist your phone number in Truecaller: https://www.truecaller.com/unlisting - it is one of the first things I do, along with full DND, whenever I (or anyone else in my family) get a new number.



The person who uploaded your contact information to Truecaller - how did they get access to it? Chances are that you provided it to them. Did you specify any restrictions on what all they could do with your info, at that time? If not then there is no case here.

I get your point. But I think it's a bit too unfair for a user's info to go public - not everyone might realize the impact of just giving a phone number to one's near and dear ones. Such things should not be based on technicalities like what we described, but rather based on explicit consent to use.

How many people even know in our country that there is something called Trucaller and that they have saved your info into their databases without even asking you?

Also, I have never used TC - do they sell your info to marketeers and potential scammers?

[binand]

Originally Posted by airguitar

I get your point. But I think it's a bit too unfair for a user's info to go public - not everyone might realize the impact of just giving a phone number to one's near and dear ones. Such things should not be based on technicalities like what we described, but rather based on explicit consent to use.

My phone number is a means of getting in touch with me - and it is in my interest that those who have it share it with those who don't. Sometimes such sharing is not in my best interest, but by and large I prefer dealing with these exceptions case-by-case rather than vice versa.

Take an example. Often in WhatsApp groups I see messages like "does anyone have a contact in company XYZ?" and someone would respond with a contact card, "this is my friend/classmate/neighbour/whatever who works there". Now some of these people might have checked with the person if it is OK to do so, and some wouldn't have. The person concerned cannot control these interactions or mandate explicit permission.

Originally Posted by airguitar

Also, I have never used TC - do they sell your info to marketeers and potential scammers?

As far as I can tell - they don't. They derive revenue in two ways: (a) by selling premium plans and business services, and (b) advertising to their registered users (eg: on the incoming call/end of call screens, in the call log etc.).

It is actually an invaluable service given the lax governance of telemarketing in India. I don't sign up for it only because unlisting wasn't an option for registered users last I checked.