[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

I wish they don't succeed.

Can a phone have user replaceable battery and still maintain IP68 water/dust proofing. I think smartphone makers ditched user replaceable batteries and headphone jacks to achieve good water ingress protection

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Can a phone have user replaceable battery and still maintain IP68 water/dust proofing. I think smartphone makers ditched user replaceable batteries and headphone jacks to achieve good water ingress protection

Yes, it has been done in the past when the weather sealing was far more robust and reliable than today's sandwich design where you never know when the so called iP68 rating has been compromised due to the fading glue.

One of my relative bought Motorola Defy on my suggestion, it was kind of a weapon that time. It was small, handy and equally slim compared to that times Samsung Galaxy or iPhone. I had opened it few times where back-panel was lockable. Battery was easy to replace like old Nokias. Back-panel had very soft rubber gasket which I will call automobile grade because it retained the softness until the phone was retired.

All the exterior holes were also covered with gaskets. That phone had always been point of talk in our family. We used to do lot of water experiments on it, my relative used to wash it, will you do it today's IP68 rated phones? I won't. It survived lot of hard drops.

Gorilla Glass got famous after Defy proven it's war-front worthy robustness.

https://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_de...tures-3514.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc4nbsPJm5w

Motorola tried to cash the reputation of Defy with Defy 2 but it wasn't as successful, maybe due to Mediatek chipset or mediocre specs compared to other options. Later in the era of sandwich design phones when glass sued to break a lot, they introduced a tough phone with shatter proof glass when some videos circulated where phone was under the wheels of vehicles.

Something better than it is easily achievable today in even more slimmer bodies. It lasted very long and refused to die, finally we had to find another replacement for it due to degrading software performance over the years.

Pixels or Apples which are wide accepted despite double the thickness compared to the slim Moto Edge 50 which comes with much more robust MIL-STD-810 rating at far lesser price point. If that is possible then Motorola, the grandfather of the mobile industry can make bullet proof phone in equal housing of an Apple or Pixel.

If Defy comes in same size with today's midrange specs and same robustness, I will prefer it over rest of the e-garbage. It was so handy, literary disappears in the hand.

Its foolish to buy arguments of the companies at the cost of our hard earned money.

[meerkat]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

....

Culprit turned out the swollen battery. But why when I updated the firmware? Because Exynos based Pixels heat up too much. And it was a long session of update since I prefer to format-update-reformat while updating the OS. So phone had to go through lot of heat during the process.
....

There is reason why even Samsung buyers prefer Snapdragon variants over Exynos. Same is the case with Mediateks, both these processors just kill the batteries and other components prematurely.
.....

Expecting anything over 2-3 years is way too much with these Exynos based Pixels.

I am not sure such blanket statements about the Exynos (or other) processors are warranted. It greatly depends on the particular version of the processor, the implementation in a particular phone model, the various use cases, and so on.

If anecdotal "evidences" have any value, here I present my personal experiences:

* My still-running 2017 Samsung midranger has an Exynos processor. The battery (with ~60% capacity left after > 7 years) still lasts ~one day on a full charge (used to run > 2 days when new). I have never experienced any heating problem. The battery still looks as good as new.

Of course, I am just a moderate user, with hours of video streaming, watching videos, listening to music and reading e-books, among other things. I am no gamer, and have never had a long update routine like you do.

I have been quite happy with my phone, so didn't balk at another Exynos-driven Samsung as a replacement. Of course, I don't know how long this one will last, but haven't experienced any heating problem in several months of ownership. It is also much too early to predict how the much-larger battery from a different supplier would perform over the years I expect to have the phone.

* In contrast, a newer Snapdragon-driven Redmi in the family heats up like an iron, and the battery has bulged now.

If you are also a person who prefers to keep the device for long term then wait for 2027, courtesy this:

European Union : Smartphones Must Have User-Replaceable Batteries by 2027
..

Hope the EU's regulations about the user replaceable batteries come to reality without any obstacle put by the greedy mobile manufacturers.

Frankly, I don't see what purpose this is supposed to serve, when the root cause has apparently not been addressed, purposely or otherwise!

As I've mentioned above, My ~7.5 year old Samsung still runs just fine, and I've been happy with it, -- it didn't need a replacement with a new phone, -- only needed a new battery (which happens to be user-replaceable). But I could not source a new battery from any reliable source!

The root cause, in my view, is no standardization of the ubiquitous Lithium batteries, unlike the good old rechargeable AA, AAA, C, D etc. cells .... The manufacturers of various devices design in as many different kinds with different dimensions and pin-outs and so on, as there are different devices, --of course, with only a view to make a profit at whatever cost to the environment and to the customers. -- So I couldn't just go out and buy a new battery from a reliable manufacturer that fits my old phone!

Just think, wouldn't it make sense to standardize just a few different sizes of Lithium batteries that would fit all the various devices? --- But noooo...., that would come in the way of the manufactures reaping ill-gotten gains at the expense of the customers, -- to say nothing of the immeasurable damage to the environment as a consequence.

Don't you think the EU (or whoever have you) should have addressed such real issues first, if they were really serious about saving the environment, if not the consumers?!


I'll end with just another example: my old Canon and Olympus digital cameras run on AAs, while another Nikon bridge camera runs on a Lithium battery that is identical in every respect to the batteries that went in the good old indestructible Nokia feature phones, --- except for one important respect, -- the pin-outs are different! So one is forced to buy a proprietary battery at 3-4x the price!
.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by meerkat

I am not sure such blanket statements about the Exynos (or other) processors are warranted.

Team-BHP Exynos Vs Snapdragon thread:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...ur-choice.html (Snapdragon Vs Exynos processor | Your choice?)

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by meerkat

Just think, wouldn't it make sense to standardize just a few different sizes of Lithium batteries that would fit all the various devices? --- But noooo...., that would come in the way of the manufactures reaping ill-gotten gains at the expense of the customers, -- to say nothing of the immeasurable damage to the environment as a consequence.

I have shared my views in detail multiple times on this topic:

Re-quoting few of them here since the topic has got active now:

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

A mobile phone doesn't deserve to be called a 'mobile' if mobility factors is missing from it. My brother's profession relies mostly on his mobile but he and his mediocre mobile phone are mostly found in search of charging ports through out the day, I always see his mobile charger in his hand. I hate to be in such situation.

I don't consider a mobile phone as a good one if it is not able to deliver atleast 2 days of gap in between 20-80% charge cycles during average use case. I am not happy with my current Pixel 6 (mostly Samsung hardware including SOC) in this regards which barely manages to surpass 1.5 day mark occasionally, mostly I have to charge it every day.

Seems like I am spoiled by my previous experience with Motorolas, especially the last one which used to deliver 2-3 days of battery backup. Few recent Motorola midrangers bought in the family are even better with the newer hardware.

Chipset efficiency and battery tech has grown upto a point that even my Ryzen 5600 based ultrabook can easily last for 8-12 hours during usage, better than most mobile phones out there which are supposed to fare better in this regard.

So this can not be an excuse for mobile companies if they are still claiming just one day of battery backup as a scoring marketing point with all the technology available at spare. Culprits are not only the hardware combinations, but software as well. Android is turning out into a most inefficient OS of its time.

Even a stock Android phone like Pixel occupies around 5 GB of RAM on the first boot, illogical and indigestible if you ask me. I will call it a decade of inefficient evolution. Even a full fledged Linux distro needs 1.5-2 GB of RAM which runs on much more powerful machines and offers far more productivity.

I know there are logics thrown in favor of Android stating so much services running in the background, but its still illogical, you need to be effcient, if you are not then its a fault, accept it and rectify it. I ditched Windows OS long time back on my work computer due to it's nature of being a hurdle in productivity. I run Linux distro on my workhorse desktop with 64GB where the OS occupies barely 2GB of RAM. But When I work on large projects, all the RAM and other resources are available for me to use in my project instead of large amount occupied by the bloated OS.

Another example of efficiency is I keep few open source services like KDE-Connect and Syncthing running in the background all the time in my Android phone. They occupy negligible amount of RAM or other resources despite running all the time. But other inefficient background services by the Google and the OS itself occupy far more resources than they deserve. Things are worst in the bloated devices sold by Samsung and most Chinese manufacturers.

Bigger irony is the battery policy of all the Android phone manufactures where they ensure making it impossible to find a replacement battery matching the performance of factory fitted one after few years when users actually need them. So a perfectly working phones has to be thrown away just because of the battery.

I am sure automobile companies will also do the same with the EVs stating reasons that the car or the battery model has changed for 'better' so replace the car since replacement battery is not available.

All this garbage is being throw in the name of saving environment and people are buying it.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

The Pixel 3 you are considering is refurbished, we don't know if the battery is new or not? If its new then what about the quality? Its a bitter fact that smartphones render useless once battery is gone, replacement batteries are not reliable most of the times. Sadly the battery and software update policy of the tech-giants is one of the biggest factor in day by day piling up of e-garbage.

I am worried about the situation of the environment once the e-cars will replace the conventional cars. The e-car manufacturers will also have the same battery policy to maximize their profits.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

One thing which frustrates me is the whole world is being forced to move onto battery powered products and all the companies have made a policy of turning their products useless once the factory fitted batteries are dead. And aftermarket replacement batteries are kind of garbage in most cases. So the consumers are forced to buy new products just because of the kaput battery which is hard to replace.

The battery (with ~60% capacity left after > 7 years) still lasts ~one day on a full charge (used to run > 2 days when new). I have never experienced any heating problem. The battery still looks as good as new.

I also have one such example with Motorola One Power, the phone was bought in 2019 is still alive along with its battery, really missing those days:

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

How much more battery backup you want?
is it enough?

Attachment 1878995

Attachment 1878996

Now the question is, the advocates of EVs and batteries keep claiming that battery tech has evolved a lot in past few years, does that mean the tech is evolved to ensure bigger profits for the companies due to reduced life or what?

Where are the increased charging cycles? We already had acceptable batteries but now its hard to squeeze charging cycles of 500, my Pixel 6 reported 444 cycles at the time swelling noticed.

I never faced battery bulging issue in the past, this is even more hazardous than the lower battery life. I don't know when it started swelling, I only could know when screen got popped out.

How people know one of the cell in their EV has swelled up? After the blast?

[dragonfire]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Can a phone have user replaceable battery and still maintain IP68 water/dust proofing. I think smartphone makers ditched user replaceable batteries and headphone jacks to achieve good water ingress protection

Non user replaceable batteries was in vogue even before waterproof phones, although sealing the phone using glue provides much higher water proofing than using gaskets. Gaskets can help, but after a few open/close it will start to lose it's efficaccy.

Originally Posted by meerkat

I am not sure such blanket statements about the Exynos (or other) processors are warranted. It greatly depends on the particular version of the processor, the implementation in a particular phone model, the various use cases, and so on.

I think the lean OS (Pure Android) in the Pixels would be able to survive longer than the regular ones with heavy skins. My Motorola edge 20 with a Snapdragon 778 is still fast and fluid after 3 years. It slowed down only when it was running work apps. I think 7 years might be overkill, but the Exynos should be able to hold up for half a decade. Tensor G4 benchmarks are very close to SD 8 gen 2, which is still flagship material. I only see it lagging in Gaming performance, and that too not by a lot.

[Vikash Kumawat]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Are there any decently specced compact Androids that DON'T have a glass back?

I bought a S23 last month in BBD sale, currently its selling for 38k for 128 GB, its a small and compact beast, comes with Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 and 6.1 inches display, it has matte glass back with the protection of Cornring Gorilla Glass Victus 2, its better than Google's Pixel devices, their Tensor chipsets are not worth it

[GoBabyGo]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Thanks for the responses gentlemen. But I should've probably highlighted COMPACT, a deal-breaker requirement. I switched from a OnePlus 7T to the Pixel 4a specifically for the size. Not going back.

I am using Samsung Galaxy S23 from 25th February 2023. Since last 7 years I have never used my phone with back cover. Only thing I do is to have skin at the back to protect from minor scratches. However, due to matt finish in Samsung Galaxy S23, back skin is not possible, I tried but it was removed within a week.

Galaxy S23 is a solid phone and will not break easily on drops. However, I am not satisfied with it battery life. In my typical normal usage its battery come down from 100% to 40%, from 8.30am to 5.30pm. I am not a heavy user of my phone between 10am to 6pm. I mostly use my laptop during this period for everything, including WhatsApp, Twitter and reading Team-BHP forum and I watch YouTube after reaching home.

[rohityadav6ae47]

Google Pixel 8a should be a good option, as you're used to compact dimensions.

[jerk_free]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

I think I'm going to squeeze the remaining life out of my 4a and then get one of the 'smaller' newer Pixels to replace it. 6.3 inches/~180 grams seems to be the new 'compact' nowadays, up from 5.8-6 inches/~150 grams of yesteryear.

I tried a bunch of phones in-store, and I admit I can't deal with the skins and other add-ons on top of stock Android anymore. Flagship Samsungs down to the cheap Chinese stuff, they're all annoying.

Another Pixel at some point it will have to be, I suppose.

Yes - the definition of compacts is now changed. The lightest and compact-est android you can get in India is the S24 (at 167 gms, 70.6 mm width). Have dropped it countless times (I use it with a cheap silicone case) and still going strong. Edge 50 neo is similar 171 gms

If you want to go even smaller, head over to iOS. iPhone SE is super small (140 gms I think) and is due for a refresh in the next 3 months. Wait for that. The new one is expected to be in the 170 gms territory though.

Use this tool to narrow down your options. Great tool - https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?

I've already put in some filters - https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php...Max=175&s5Gs=0 there are like just 10 phones launched in the last two years

[ads295]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Thanks for the responses gentlemen. But I should've probably highlighted COMPACT, a deal-breaker requirement. I switched from a OnePlus 7T to the Pixel 4a specifically for the size. Not going back.

My brother! I feel exactly the same way. For a very long time I compromised on specs just because all smaller devices were available only at the lower end. I used a Redmi 2 Prime many years ago (4.7" screen - bliss). Then I bought a Samsung Galaxy S7 for 28k during Flipkart's 2017 sale.

Your options in India are rather limited, I'm afraid. I didn't upgrade from my Galaxy S7 for years because I couldn't find something similarly sized. I did use a Samsung Galaxy M01 briefly owing to the size. That was another compact device - below ₹10k price point, not-bad camera, large battery and very good battery life. I wrote an honest review for that, and even won a Level 1 U2 neckband from Samsung for it (they were running a competition at the time I bought it). It was my secondary device (business use only) and the S7 was my primary. Unfortunately though, it was stolen from my office (long story), and I was forced to retire the S7 to secondary duties.

Eventually, after much research, I bought a Sony Xperia 10 Mark IV through a friend in the UK. The Mark V was just launched, so these were available for GBP 250 from eBay UK. I ordered 2 cases and screen guards with it.

The 10 series should fit your bill:
+ Insane battery life. The 5000mAh battery coupled with the small size means I usually charge every alternate day (and this is after capping the max charge to 80% to protect the battery. I also don't discharge below 15%)
+ Superb AMOLED display. I really wish it had 90/120Hz refresh rate, given the rather excess battery life!
+ Rugged - I've dropped it several times (albeit with the case on) and there's no damage on the phone. It's also IP65 AND IP68 rated. No glass back.
+ Stock Android experience - Sony has kept their involvement on the backend, like with the battery protection features, audio features such as the equaliser, etc.
+ 3.5mm headphone jack, expandable storage, notifications LED light. 'Nuff said.

- The cellular reception can be low sometimes, since this phone was never homologated for Indian networks specifically. It's a small compromise.
- It's slow to charge since Sony doesn't believe in fast charging. Personally I don't think this is a con since a 2hr charge every 2 days isn't a big deal. The increase in battery longevity is worth it (battery health stands at 97% after 1yr and 3 months of usage)
- The camera is mediocre, I still use the S7 for pictures when its around. I've heard Sony messed up only the software though, as people who've rooted the phone and installed Google Camera have gotten much better results
- People seem to have a hard time hearing me sometimes. Did some research and it's seems common amongst these phones.
- The Snapdragon 695 chipset isn't the best for 5G, or gaming. I don't use either so this isn't a con for me either. I've turned off 5G entirely from the settings.

All said and done, I'm very happy with my purchase since I needed a compact device with exemplary battery life and a reasonable price (I paid ₹28k all-in after exchange rates). My pain point is the camera, but if I could go back in time, I think I would still purchase this device again because it has no competition. Check out if you can get a modern iteration from the 10 series.
Cheers

[Aluminium]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

6.3 inches/~180 grams seems to be the new 'compact' nowadays, up from 5.8-6 inches/~150 grams of yesteryear.

With the reduction in the size of bezels, the 6.3 inch phone could very well be smaller than the 5.8 inch phone from a few years ago. The height, width, thickness data given in some websites give a better idea as to the actual size of the phone.
The weight also makes a substantial impact as to how good the phone feels to hold in your hand. Best bet is to go and try out a few phones from some showroom.
I would recommend the FE models from samsung (only if you can get the snapdragon version)

[ManasN95]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

I don't put phones in cases, and while I'm not the drops-it-often kind, I don't want a delicate darling device.

My reference phone is a Pixel 4a.

I will whole-heartedly suggest the Samsung S23 or S24 depending on your budget. It's absolutely perfect size in hands, and moreover, it's Corning Gorilla Victus 2 and IP68, hence rugged.

Please avoid the Pixels. They're overrated (except for the cameras) overheated and overpriced.

My friends has a bill of 21k because he dropped his phone from 3 feet and the screen went dead.

Samsung is your safest bet. Happy hunting!

[nova.19_exe]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Are there any decently specced compact Androids that DON'T have a glass back?

I don't put phones in cases, and while I'm not the drops-it-often kind, I don't want a delicate darling device.

My reference phone is a Pixel 4a.

Not a compact, but rugged yes.

CMF by Nothing Phone (1). It's a well specced phone for its price, with the option of either plastic back (Black and Light Green) or leather which I have (Blue and Orange). You can change the back plate if it gets damaged or so!

PS : Review coming by today hopefully!

[yedukrishnan199]

The Pixel 4a had dimensions of 144 x 69.4 x 8.2 mm (5.67 x 2.73 x 0.32 in) with a 5.81-inch screen, weighing just 143g with a Plastic frame and plastic back and a tiny (by today's standards) 3140 mAh battery, so it was compact and easy to hold, both in terms of size and weight

Fast forward to 2024 and the most compact phones you can get are:

1. Samsung Galaxy S24
Perhaps the best compact phone you can get until the S25 arrives in January 2025, At 147 x 70.6 x 7.6 mm (5.79 x 2.78 x 0.30 in) with a 6.2-inch screen and weighing in at just 167g, it is the definition of compact in today's market. However, it does have a glass back, albeit perhaps the strongest one out there with Gorilla Glass Victus 2

2. Apple iPhone 16
It is pretty out of place in the Android thread, but it is the most compact iPhone of 2024, At 147.6 x 71.6 x 7.8 mm (5.81 x 2.82 x 0.31 in) with a 6.1-inch screen and weighing just 170g, it is what the iPhone lovers who crave compact go for, it too has a glass back.

Now for the most compact phones of 2024 that do not have a glass back.

1. Sony Xperia 10 VI
At 155 x 68 x 8.3 mm (6.10 x 2.68 x 0.33 in) with a 6.1-inch display and weighing just 164g, it is quite a compact phone, but sadly it isn't available in India

2. Motorola Edge 50 Neo
At 154.1 x 71.2 x 8.1 mm (6.07 x 2.80 x 0.32 in) with a 6.4-inch display and weighing 171g with an eco-leather back or plastic back according to the colour chosen, the Edge 50 Neo is a competent device, it comes with MIL-STD-810H compliance and ensues it can withstand quite a few drops as well. A good choice in the mid-range segment.

3. Xiaomi 14 Civi
Certainly one of the bigger smartphones in this list, but a well-specced one, the phone measures 157.2 x 72.8 x 7.5 mm or 7.8 mm weighing 177.6g but packs in a rather large 6.55-inch display, it comes with an eco-leather back and offers good specs for the price.

4. Google Pixel 8a
What better phone to replace a Pixel 4a than its successor 4 years apart, the Pixel 8a, the Pixel is still one of the most compact phones, but it has grown in size over the years with it being 152.1 x 72.7 x 8.9 mm (5.99 x 2.86 x 0.35 in) in dimensions with a 6.1-inch screen while weighing 188g, it still does come with a plastic back.