[santosh.s]

Originally Posted by roms

By the way,has the Baleno really lost its zing after the relevant changes made for Bharat3 norms?Sadly,have'nt driven either eu2 or eu3 balenos to come to a conclusion.

I have no experience with EUII, but as per "on paper" numbers, the change is-

132N-m@3k to 130.5N-m@3k (-1.14%)
94bhp@6k to 91bhp@5.5k (-3.19% max @5.5k, could be more beyond that)

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

Valid point,

A little but let me explain a few of my views (rather concerns) regarding relying too much on NCAP ratings, because our discussion is so much revolving around safety-

1. Test speeds:
when a car crashes, its kinetic energy gets absorbed in the form of deformation of car and injuries to its occupants. While total amount of energy will decide overall damage, only the portion which reaches cabin decides injuries to occupants. It is well known in physics/mechanics that the amount of energy is equal to "(mass/2) x velocity^2". So as you double your velocity, the impact becomes 4 times worser. If you look at various speeds used by NCAP, it is 64km/h (the highest among all tests) for frontal crash test, which according to above formula should be equivalent to two cars travelling at around 45km/h each if the collision was head on. (Does anybody know as to why NCAP says that it is equivalent to 55km/h for each car?) So if two cars travel at 80kmph, the impact should be 3 times worser and if it is 90kmph & 100kmph, it becomes 4 & 5 times as bad. I am not trying to say that the car which had lesser rating at their test speed could become better at higher speeds. What I feel is both of them will become fatal irrespective of whether its a single star or all 5 stars. BTW, an another note, a car hitting any stationary object at 90kmph is double as bad as two similar cars colliding head on at 45kmph each! Though relative speed between two is same in both cases, total energy to be dessipated is more in former case... surprizing as it may seem.

Apart from the kinetic energy, all of us also carry petrol-bombs everyday in the form of fuel tanks. No NCAP rating can save the car if it explodes. Recently heard that happening to a palio which has automatic fuel cut off feature. (how does it matter when tank itself ruptures )

2. Test impact:
Tests are based on the car crashing with a certain object in a certain position/direction. But in real life, what exactly the car collide with and where the impact happens (over the car body) can make a huge difference to your safety. For example, banging against a wall, a rock, a tree or thin/sharp metal goods (steel rods for example) protruding outside trucks or parts of their structure are all very very different things. Similarly getting hit at bumpers, bonnet, doors, wind shields or window glasses makes a whole lot of difference.

3. "other" vehicles:
There is a great risk that all car owners have to take because we drive on roads along with other heavy buses, lorries etc which may be 10-20 times heavier or more than the car. No car can be saved if such vehicles ram into your car. NCAP ratings do not reflect safety under such conditions. Stronger cars will do little better as long as the impact is within what they can withstand, beyond that does strong or weak really matter? We need "car" rating for trucks and buses, just like pedestrian ratings

I am not implying NCAP is all rubbish. Just that I find their test conditions to be a small subset of what all can go wrong in reality. In conclusion what I can say is this-

- NCAP ratings are an indication of safety (of course) but in limited sense, one should not get carried away too much by that.

- NCAP has advised not to judge two cars from different categories based on their respective ratings, so the meaning of 2 stars versus 4 stars for baleno and swift is unclear. It is definitely not "swift is twice as safe as baleno". The same applies to lancer, aveo.

Please don't consider me as mere pro-baleno. I do wish it had an option of airbags, fuel cut-off etc. (and yes... better NCAP rating too ) It doesn't sell much anyway... actually I feel more pity for the poor Aveo since the car is suffering due to this rating right in its beginning itself!!

Well your text made for a good reading but the thing is that a car with 4-5 NCAP Star rating will be safer (relatively) even at higher speeds in a collision coz though you might not come out unscathed, may be with some injuries but ALIVE which will not be the case with a car with 1-2 star rating suffering chasis deformations at test speeds itself!

[0-100]

For Baleno I have got just one line to say - "TRY IT TO BELIEVE IT" ...

[roms]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

I have no experience with EUII, but as per "on paper" numbers, the change is-

132N-m@3k to 130.5N-m@3k (-1.14%)
94bhp@6k to 91bhp@5.5k (-3.19% max @5.5k, could be more beyond that)

Thanks Santosh for that info,though i have read those figures before.Only a true road test can reveal the true difference between eu2 and eu3 balenos.Ok so a lot has been discussed on safety,performance,VFM of both the cars from the Maruti stable.Its upto Microhit,the person who started this thread to take a decision.
Baleno-Good performance,VFM,can hold its own against more expensive competition,though not that safe or stable at very high speeds,fantastic a/c and very good FE for a 1600 cc engine,but its dated.
Swift- Very safe car(compared to Indian standards),more stable and good road holding at high speeds,steering isn't all that communicative,performance isn't great either,niggling issues,slightly cramped,will have good resale value.
If you have a budget of 6 lacs,i'd recommend Baleno.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

I have no experience with EUII, but as per "on paper" numbers, the change is-

132N-m@3k to 130.5N-m@3k (-1.14%)
94bhp@6k to 91bhp@5.5k (-3.19% max @5.5k, could be more beyond that)

Well having driven both the cars extensively , i would say that though the E-III cars are down on power they certainly dont seem far behind the E-II by any comparison .. The difference in 0-100 timings could be not more than 0.2-0.4 of a second .. So unless one is really into racing its hard to make out the difference .. Also , all those who complain about the drop in performance , i would like to ask how many times do we even think about redlining the car in the 1st 3 gears .. While the peak power is produced at 5.5k rpms , im still wondering how many of us even get there ??

Also , the E-III ECU's are far better than the E-II ECU's ..

Also what one needs to understand is that , baleno was launched as just a family sedan and not as a performance car unlike the OHC VTEC or the Lancer Cedia (sporty version).. So its but natural for MUL to cut down on the performance and make it more FE for logical reasons to make it sell better .. Getting such performance from a car intended to be a family sedan is only an additional bonus ..

Originally Posted by roms

though not that safe or stable at very high speeds

This i would not agree upon .. Just back from a drive to nandi hills , where at one empty stretch i could take the car upto 170(could have gone further but ran out of road) and it held up really well around a curve even on my pathetic stock 13's with 5 people in the car .. Fatter and better rubber will only make it handle like a gem .. Also we have tested the baleno on the Sri.Perambadur race track and found the high speed stability to be wonderful.. Dont go by hearsay , however a few of us did experience some problems with levitation on a few particular sections of the national highways with heavy cross winds ..

IF there is something to complain about the baleno , then it would be the following :-
1. Outdated looks , though i seem to love them .. Call me biased, not because i own one but because i have weird taste ..
2. Lack of safety features .. Until that day when importance is given to safety features , dream on ..

[theMAG]

Originally Posted by microhit

I may be interested in either Baleno or Swift

I understand that Baleno is an old design - but what are the advantages over Swift?

which may be more reliable?

pleae advice.

thanks

Both cars being in different segments, I would suggest you actually go in for the Fiesta 1.6 notwitshstanding its sedate looks - if your driving is mainly on highways. This car is future proof and that 1.6 L Ford Rocam engine is to die for.

If its a bias towards city usage, go in for the Swift.

Even tho the Baleno is a VFM option now, remember that Maruti is phasing out both Esteem and Baleno in a year's time. At that point of time, the Baleno will cease to be a VFM proposition.

[prince85]

Originally Posted by theMAG

Even tho the Baleno is a VFM option now, remember that Maruti is phasing out both Esteem and Baleno in a year's time. At that point of time, the Baleno will cease to be a VFM proposition.

Whats to confirm that Esteem and Baleno would be phased out in a years time????? Rumours have been doing the rounds for more than 3 years now. I agree both are quite dated but then both have their strengths in their categories which is quite unmatched by the competetion(period). And as it is Maruti is not renowned for phasing out its cars which is quite sad actually

[microhit]

Guys,

I have made up my mind and going with the Swift

Baleno may be big/power but since I am single bachelor and Swift has more younger look to it, so dont need a family sedan like baleno etc.

LX is out of question.
ZX is a bit heavy for my taste + more complications

Going for VX, only thing i need is bigger wheels.

Anyone knows where I can get these Suzuki Factory wheels?



Thanks a lot

[jkdas]

Good choice microhit; so teh winner is the Swift. The color?,

ZXi was better bet with automatic climate control + alloys + abs + airbags?

OE alloys tend to be costly.

[microhit]

Originally Posted by jkdas

The color?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/iipcache/31733.jpg



So do you think they actually sell those wheels here?

By the way I asked the dealer about any upcoming improvements over Swift.
Expect only - a diesel in future, do not expect bigger engine on swift.

And my belief is that lets just leave Diesel for Trucks, not cars + keep environment clean.
OK lets not start another debate here hehe.

[jkdas]

Found this link here at tbhp

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/241813-post170.html

Looks like the one you asked.

[talk2anand]

Good choice. Just last week I got my Silky Silver VXi (ABS). As soon as I got the car, the first thing I did was to go and get the tyres changed to Bridgestone GIII potenza 185/70 R14.

I used my experiences with mobiles in buying the car. I changed 5 mobile in first 2 years, and I realized that the most important things in a mobile phone are (in decreasing order of importance):
1. Connectivity
2. Looks
3. Features (after some time you find that you dont end up using lot of features).

In case of car, decision points were:
1. Problem free - Now that maruti Swift. Some minor issues with rattling which have been almost fixed in recent models.
2. Looks - Awesome
3. Good resale value

The other car I liked was at other extreme. It was Fiat Adventure. That car just rocks and thats where my heart lies. Superb handling. Really good engine. Really-really good looks (better than almost anything under 10 lakh). The reason I did not go for it is that I am planning to use my current car just for a few years. After that will give it to parents/siblings and go for a big car (CR-V/Tuscon/Merc or something like that). Ppl who would have driven the car after me would not have shared the same passion, and fiat service could be a big pain outside of a big city.

Once again congrats on your decision.

And better use the money saved from ZXi on accessories.

Originally Posted by microhit

Guys,

I have made up my mind and going with the Swift

Baleno may be big/power but since I am single bachelor and Swift has more younger look to it, so dont need a family sedan like baleno etc.

LX is out of question.
ZX is a bit heavy for my taste + more complications

Going for VX, only thing i need is bigger wheels.

Anyone knows where I can get these Suzuki Factory wheels?



Thanks a lot

[microhit]

thanks, i am in similar situation

The reason i took Swift is because it has wider support base all over the world. The platform is new and in future there is going to be lot of developments based on this platform.

I am more of an enthusiast. I learned a lot about Honda's when I had an Integra while ago.

My plans are - after 1 year, I would like to put a VVT engine.
I have already started doing research on this topic.

check this video of swift and you will know what i mean - i want to hear that engine sound!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=suzuki++swift

The only problem is that i will have to find a decent garage who will be willing to help me - so this project will take time.



Also do advice me from where I can upgrade the wheels and tyres.
What shop? I am new in bangalore - never driven in india before

Did you just changed the tyres or also the Rims?

I really want these suzuki rims
http://www.marutiswift.com/html/images/Colors01.jpg

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by microhit

My plans are - after 1 year, I would like to put a VVT engine.
I have already started doing research on this topic.

check this video of swift and you will know what i mean - i want to hear that engine sound!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=suzuki++swift

The only problem is that i will have to find a decent garage who will be willing to help me - so this project will take time.

Well there is nothing new specially in bangalore seeing honda engines being transplanted into suzi bodies .. However this has been done extensively with only the zens running OHC VTEC engines .. No one has tried it with the swifts as yet apart from a few Turbo installs.. There are some really good suzi engines capable of matching a few hondas too lying with tuners in bangalore ..

If ur serious about this i suggest u contact psycho for further performance details .. He will help u in ur research ..

PS : Sorry for going OT ..

[microhit]

I am not talking about putting Honda VTEC engines in a Suzuki.en

Suzuki makes their own VTEC ( known as VVT) which is already available in Swift in other markets. That is the right way to do it. - will have to import some parts, that is all.
Will have to study engine mounts on 1.5L swift, if there is any different.

While swapping in a Honda engine may be possible - it will be a nightmare i dont want to go through.