[kaushik_s]

Hi friends,
A friend on mine is looking for a 2nd hand car which he is planning to keep for max 2.5yrs. He wants some good space and don't want to spend more then 1.75Lakhs. At that price only thing we could think of is a Palio. He doesn't like the Santro or WAgon-R(tall boys). Zen doesn't have space. Is it worth going for a used Palio 1.2? Or shall we look for Indica also?
And what about GTX 1.6? to my knowledge the mileage is very poor. Haven't found one though, but just incase we can find one is it advisible to go for a GTX? My friend is a new driver, so is it ok to go for a powerful car like the GTX?
BTW, one Palio we've seen looked good but the clutch padel was very hard to press. Can this be a major problem or can easily be rectified? Pickup seemed to be ok actually. But the hard clutch was a pain to drive.
Regards,

[bottle]

I have the same problem of a hard clutch with my 1.2 palio.Its long due for service so will have to check if it can be rectified then. Would recommend that you stick to a 1.2 for a new driver, its certainly no slouch either

[dipen]

the FE difference between the 1.2 and 1.6 is not more than 1 kmpl. The price difference between the two in used car market will not be more than 10k. So its very very much worth going the 1.6. Besides you get aluminum finished dash, sporty pedals, better seat fabric, alloys, spoiler, some interior leather wraps, and few small extras.

It shouldn't be a problem with your friend being a first time driver. Its not difficult to handle the power of 100 horses for any driver. Its not like on gentle touch of the accelerator the car would just leap like a leopard. Only problem could be poor visibility due to the thick pillars, but again that applies to the 1.2 too.

Remember finding decent 1.6 is going to be a task. But we have many happy Bhpians who have bought a used one and I dont see anyone repenting.

One true fact that has been mentioned a zillion times on this site "Its the best built VFM hatch money can buy in the Indian market".

[CtrlAltDel]

since your friend wants to keep the car for max 2.5 yrs, it is better to go for something that would fetch a good resale value at that time.
used palios command poor resale and when he tries to sell it as a second owner it would fetch peanuts.

Palio is good VFM if you want to keep it for at least 5 years, if not more.

i would advice him to go for something like a used santro or swift but since he wants good space he can look at pre-owned sedans like OHC, Accent, Esteem etc. they are spacious and have better resale value than a used palio.

[srikant]

But for that price i think you can look for a diesel Fiat Siena pre 2000 model. It will be economical to drive to and has loads of space too. Try it out. Its a Turbo diesel engine.

[architect]

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel

since your friend wants to keep the car for max 2.5 yrs, it is better to go for something that would fetch a good resale value at that time.
used palios command poor resale and when he tries to sell it as a second owner it would fetch peanuts.

Palio is good VFM if you want to keep it for at least 5 years, if not more.

i would advice him to go for something like a used santro or swift but since he wants good space he can look at pre-owned sedans like OHC, Accent, Esteem etc. they are spacious and have better resale value than a used palio.

I tend to disagree with the reasoning about losing money on resale in this case. It's only the first owner who bears the brunt of poor resale value of a Palio, not the second owner.

E.g. Our man buys a Palio 1.6 GTX for 1.2 lakhs in decent conditions (Delhi prices) which has done, say 60,000 kms in 5 years. He drives the car for two years and 25,000 kms and still manages to sell it for 80,000. Do you think he has lost money? And, would he lose less than 40,000 bucks if he bought a used Santro / Wagon R / Zen and sold it after 3 years?

There are other factors on owning a used Palio which might affect his decision but not this. And it is still the cheapest, fastest (OK, thirstiest, too, but not so much) best built hatch to own at that price. As long as you can live with A.S.S.

[speedzak]

For the mentioned price, he'll be able to pickup a decent 1.6.
Don't worry about being a new driver and all. It's a good car to drive and it's not hard to keep it under control.

In the 2nd hand market, Palio is a good VFM option. Cheap prices and built (and weighs) like a tanki.

Don't expect any amazing numbers in the fuel efficiency. It's thirstier than many others due to it's weight/engine character. Expect close to 10 in reality without much floor to metal driving.
Spare parts are going to be a problem. It's the most expensive in the segment and takes months to come from the factory.

Stay away from the Siena. Speaking from my experience, They're a bit cumbersome to live with. Spares of it hardly exist! The turbo problems (1.7 litre engine) have been popping up now and then in those. Better to avoid it.
Petra is a better option than the Siena.

[CtrlAltDel]

Originally Posted by architect

Our man buys a Palio 1.6 GTX for 1.2 lakhs in decent conditions (Delhi prices) which has done, say 60,000 kms in 5 years. He drives the car for two years and 25,000 kms and still manages to sell it for 80,000. Do you think he has lost money?

the question is whether will he get even 80000/- for a very thirsty, seven and half year old, not so popular, out of production car, that too as a second owner?

he has to go hunting for some palio fanboys (kaushik's friend doesnt seem like one) who desparately want that machine to rip thru the treacle thick traffic (maybe he can hunt in this forum ).

even in the 2.5 years he would be owning it, he might regret his decision every time he refills the tank or, god forbid, if ever he wants an important spare part.

Q: Would you buy this car for 80000/- 2.5 yrs from now?

Disclaimer: this question is not applicable to the said fanboys.

respecting a great machine is one thing, blind worship is another. be practical.

[architect]

My dear friend, Ctrl-Alt-Del, Please read the last sentence (quoted below for your convenience) in my post before advising me to be practical or accusing me of blind worship.

Originally Posted by architect

There are other factors on owning a used Palio which might affect his decision but not this. And it is still the cheapest, fastest (OK, thirstiest, too, but not so much) best built hatch to own at that price. As long as you can live with A.S.S.

Also, just to add, since I enjoy my right of free speech as much as you....

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel

respecting a great machine is one thing, blind worship is another. be practical.

Sticking to the issue is one thing, not reading the entire content of any post is another. Be objective. Be comprehensive.

[Sidz]

Architect has hit the nail on the head.

Frankly, how can anyone expect a good resale value for a car which is already bought as resale.

I do not think people buy resale cars because they want good value for the car when they plan to sell it again.

There could be several reasons for going in for a resale car:
1) Buyer is not willing to invest a greater sum of money in a new car because of other financial commitments
2) Buyer is new to driving & hence is worried that he/she may bang the new car & mitigate the risk by going in for a resale car
3) Buyer already has a car but needs another one due to other functional needs

etc etc

The above points cut across all brands of cars. When one looks at an investment of 1.75 lacs in a car, the resale value will always be lesser than that amount after a few years since this is not a mutual fund that we are talking about.

I think the 1.6 will be a better option if FE is not one of the primary requirements. Else, it is better to go for a 1.2 since it is no slow mover by any means either.

[CtrlAltDel]

Originally Posted by architect

Sticking to the issue is one thing, not reading the entire content of any post is another. Be objective. Be comprehensive.

exactly...the very first post mentioned that the guy is looking for a used car he can keep for 2.5 years max. that implies that he would sell it after 2.5 years. why should he be stuck with somethign that he cant sell easily and that too at a decent price?

Originally Posted by sidz

Frankly, how can anyone expect a good resale value for a car which is already bought as resale.

I do not think people buy resale cars because they want good value for the car when they plan to sell it again

if given an option, who would pass up a chance to make better money from resale of a 7.5 yr old car? for instance an well maintained 7 yr old esteem might sell for around 80000-100000, but a well maintained seven yr old Palio GTX/1.6 (with the "tank like build", "doors closing with a thud" yadda yadda) would go for around maybe 50000. which one would give him more satisfaction at that time?

thats why i had said in an earlier post that Palio 1.6 might be VFM for a longer period but not for a short 2.5 yrs.

price of petrol is not exactly low and might be around 75 to 80/- per litre in 2.5 yrs from now. would the old GTX make sense in this scenario, even for a future third owner?

from the initial post what I saw was a person who wants to used car for 2.5 years. he did not seem like a palio fan but rather seemed to have zero'ed in on it due to the space and price. Suggesting GTX or 1.6 for him is not correct, IMO. If he is bent upon a Palio, NV/1.2 would be somewhat better.

[kaushik_s]

Hi guys,
After going through all these posts left me bit confused. But my friend seems to like the Palio more then a Santro (and that too only the older model will be available for that price). Swift is out question as it simply won't be available. Zen is cramped although it's a lovely car to drive (I had one so I know it)and same for Alto. The sedans will be very old models even if we get one for that price. So what else we are left with is a Palio [or may be an Indica, but..].
Now a important part and I need you people's feedback very urgently here. We checked one yesterday again, an ELX sports (1.2ltr engine) 2003, 40k run and the car seems to be in good condition except again the same issue of Hard clutch pedal. Is this a common problem with Palio? Seen it with all Palio's that we've checked. And actually while movine the clutch seems to get harder. Can this be a potential problem? The pickup and all seems good but couldn't push her as it was the rush hour. [I'm actually comparing with my Baleno's pedal so hence may be it's looking bit too hard].
Another thing I found that the tires are of Aug 02 make but there is decent amount of tread left in it(sure it can run for another 8-10k). But being 6 year old is it advisible to change them. As of now the car won't go for Highway driving and mostly will be confined in the City. It's a 2003 car and they are not willing to budge lesser then 1.75L, is this price reasonable? I felt we should've got it for around 1.6L [Bangalore price always being on the higher side then other parts in the country]. Also I can see water droplets/moist inside one of the headlamps(strangely seen this issue in 2 other Palios). Can this be rectified easily?
I've got to know from other people who have Palio's here that nowadays the service is not a big problem as Tata has taken over that part. So keeping our fingers crossed. And if there is not nagging issues like non-availability of essential spare parts and if my friend like the car then he said he may keep it for around 3 years also. And he would be quite happy with 10kmpl mileage.

[CtrlAltDel]

the ELX 1.2 is a good car. Tho A*A*S would be decent now, enquire about the spares situation.

i dont know about the price, but strictly IMO 1.75 seems somewhat high - try haggling to 1.5

[iceman7]

@ kaushik - 1.75 is on a higher side. For a 2003, 1.2 ELX, 1.4 should be a good price.

[Sidz]

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel

for instance an well maintained 7 yr old esteem might sell for around 80000-100000, but a well maintained seven yr old Palio GTX/1.6 (with the "tank like build", "doors closing with a thud" yadda yadda)

Dude - Why do you sound so sarcastic about a particular brand? Atleast your last two posts seem to indicate this.

I did not talk about the Palio but I clearly stated that this would apply to all the cars. Let's try helping Kaushik with something which will help him make a decision. We can get into one-upmanship offline.

Kaushik - I do think that you can get the price down further by 15 k. The hard clutch issue that you reported is not a standard Palio observation.I have used a Zen in the past & can vouch for this. Also, see if your friend has a service station in his vicinity which will take care of the clutch issue(if at all it is very hard as you say but if it is a relative comparison to the Baleno then you will not be able to match the same level of clutch-feeling exactly).