[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by F150

Well, you have every right to be careful at your end and you have to get most of conditions in writing , but your terms and conditions don't have to be so water tight. Observe the body language of your sales advisor when he is making commitments, and if you sense a lack of seriousness, you should walk away. In any case , I somehow get a sense that things won't work out well for you at this dealership, and, I think you should restart negotiations at a different dealership.

Dealerships get everything in writing like price prevailing at the time of delivery prevails. Full payment to be realized before delivery of car. There is not even one pro-customer fact. All dare dealer friendly pacts. In fact i walked away and am booking with another dealer who is offering approval on these written conditions.

Originally Posted by mudhasir

If I have to think on neutral grounds
What if system is down? Give me a reasonable time of 24 hours and I will provide.
Ok. As a dealer, my business is to sell car and not insurance and I am happy as long as I am able to sell what I am supposed to
More reasonable wording would be to "communicate VIN number as soon as dealer has the information"
Control is with the customer. Don't instruct bank to release full payment until you communicate. Dealer can't take car for registration until full payment is received. You perform PDI and then instruct bank and give 2 days to dealer to complete registration. Problem solved
This is a reasonable expectation. Ideally, I would be hopeful of no damages during registration transit but such cases needs to be dealt by escalations and can't have predefined commitments.
Again, your PDI before registration can be covered but post registration has to be dealt on actual case
OK, if you make payment

1) Logical things like system down is acceptable. If an earthquake hits chennai even two/three weeks is acceptable. But if everything is normal, entering into the system after four days isnt acceptable as faced by BHPians who booked the XUV500 at launch.

2) The make a 16K profit if i buy insurance in-house. They were reluctant at the fact i am ready to buy from outside at 20K.

3) Dealer said they get the VIN #, colors & trim & the container truck details, as soon as the truck leaves the factory gate. I dont see a reason to with-hold information on VIN. It is completely logical to share when available. On another note, Dealer said it takes 15 days from Pune to chennai as they drive only at night and that too at 40 kmph. Pune to Chennai is ~ 1000 kms. 15 days for 1000 kms if approx 66kms per day and driving for only 1+ hours. Highly unlikely. It should take 3-4 days at the max. Something is fishy.

4) I have mentioned that already telling i will push the bank to release payment at the earliest. Even one day, if there is pre approval and waiting for the word go. Hoever, the final word lies with the bank.

5) I will very well accept a damaged / repainted car provided, the deal / compensation is a real sweetner and not a take it or leave it 4-5K free accessories. I will aceept 40K cash as a compensation on a 13 lac car incl accessories.

6) What you see is what you get. What if they conveniently show pictures / photos and sell it out to other nexon owners / politicians / say it is not working and we are returning to Tata for replacement? I pay money and br a sitting duck in this case. I will pay them "Before" fitting once all accessories are placed on the table in person. Sounds logical - doesnt it? I might even wait for 5 hrs there to ensure it doesnt go to the local politician or goon or police's influence. I will have to run from pillar to post, escalate and wait for justice. Its a waste of my time.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

You are completely justified in making your checklist and trying to avoid any risk associated with the purchase. However, when I look at the list with an outsider's perspective, it seems that all obligations lie with the dealer and none with you (for example, payment). It is valid that the dealer will follow up for payment if it is overdue. As stated by other bhpians, you give some you take some..
While I see the merits of documenting these topics, please also try to consider whom you are dealing with. Also, at the end of the day you may need to consider what value this document (even if signed or approved via email) would hold in any court; if the matter comes to that stage. In other words, where would you intend to use it?

3-4 is bank standard and there is nothing that a customer can do to speed it up. However i have mentioned that I will push for immediate disbursement by going for those pre-approvals etc.

Escalation Matrix would be Dealer principal --> Tata Customer care --> Suraj Subbarao --> mayank Parekh --> Guenter Butschek --> Social Media --> court.

Originally Posted by Thilak29

I am surprised that this august forum members found your terms & conditions rigid, despite reading multiple accounts of cheating by dealers and in some cases manufacturers themselves. I laud your efforts to safeguard your interests as a customer. I work in IT service industry and I know how customer words contracts (SOW) carefully since they pump funds to projects per my employer's pricing chart, fair industry practice. I will be very glad if more forum members follow this precedent of seeking written assurances at each checkpoint of purchase process.

I am so happy that at least one person supports me from a customer perspective.

Originally Posted by mac187

I feel you are coming from the right place but the approach may be wrong. If you have another dealer willing to work with your conditions, just go ahead. Not all dealers approach to business the same way. If you have only one dealer, remember this is a business deal. It should be a win-win for the dealer and you. Use accessories, insurance etc, as points to negotiate. Ex. If they are willing to give you the CRM# or VIN# you will buy the accessories, else you will not buy it from them. etc.
I agree that you need the discount etc, to be documented. The re-paint part is harsh, the only way to avoid this is buying a car in stock, not sure if its possible with Nexon.

Nexon has a 1.5 - 2 month waiting period. Even if i cheat, dealer holds my 1.25 lac. He is at upper hand. I sm already buying 1.7 lacs worth accessories in single go. It is a huge amount and not many customers buying a 9.5 lac nexon would spend 1.7 lac on accessories. Again, I will buy a repainted car but at the price i say. I want to a 40K discount, an apology letter from the dealer and not 4K worth accessories free.

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

Honestly Im amazed at people siding with the dealership here. when you book a car, their booking forms have terms and conditions that are one sided, including "price on delivery will be applicable". Ive not seen anyone question this despite the fact that under contract law, this clause is illegal. The moment there is an offer and acceptance, the contract is valid and binding, and this clause creates whats called a "contingent contract".
IMHO the OP is well justified in what he planned to do. Its his hard earned money and he has every right to protect it by all legal means possible.
As a lawyer, I can tell you that if he got the dealership to acknowledge all that he was asking for, and then the dealer reneged on his commitment, the customer would have a very strong case in the consumer forum.
Given how most car dealers are "paragons of virtue", basing such a large ticket item on trust is not the wisest thing to do IMHO. every time Ive bought a car, Ive got all commercial items committed on paper with the dealer stamp and if the dealer was unwilling then I walk away.
Why would you trust a dealer who is not even willing to stand by his own word? you are the one putting your money down, not the dealer, so you have every right to get EXACTLY what you are paying for, period.

You have echoed my thoughts perfectly. Cant find a better way of expressing my joy.

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

While I understand that written documentation gives clear leverage, too much insistence on having everything written down may hurt the mutual trust which might cause a long-term damage.

Kudos that that honest and trustowrth dealer but sorry - i dont want to take that risk.

Overall - This fuss seems to be for car purchase only. When i bought an AC, everything was documented at payment. Exchange price for old AC / Installation free / Delivery free / product price - discounts and final price to be paid. I got the proforma before payment. What is different in a car purchase to honor the commitment made. In an straightforward way, It is ethical to make whatever commitment is honorable in written. If one cannot stand by the commitment, better not make one, either verbal or written on whatever.

[Tapish]

A couple of things Bharath:
1. You have mentioned more than a couple of times that you need 40k as compensation in case anything goes wrong - Why 40k?
2. We are absolutely with you in your right to have a good transaction. The only point is that most of these transactions have a lot of moving pieces - what car, when, where, transport, registration etc. very few people will be able to give you a watertight agreement. For example: the VIN is allotted to you but the car doesn't pass your PDI. Or the vehicle is registered to you, but doesn't cross your final PDI - what is the dealer supposed to do in this case?

Friendly advice- it is good to factor in the risk, but if you believe everything will go wrong with your booking, its probably not the best approach. God forbid, but if your car gets a scratch after you leave the dealership - then who do you go to?

Buying a car is a major decision, enjoy the process and the car. Smaller things will happen, you can't let that affect you.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Hello all - I am hunting for a Nexon and as a normal customer, I visited all showrooms in Chennai and finally Tafe access pallikaranai gave the best deal.

Below are the points that I sent for approval and all the points were verbally agreed upon by sales person. I was also offered a counter discount of 12% on accessories, as my purchase value of accessories is 1.7 lacs. Also, please note that none of the below points are illegal or unethical.

Conditions for car booking:
...
Accessories Conditions:

I agree with most of your points, but let me share with you the other side of the story. Dealerships will consider deviating from their set procedures and make an exception for you only in 2 cases - 1. You are related to the owners or close friends or 2. You are a bulk purchaser.

PDI after registration - What if some errant driver brushes your car while on the way back from registration? Despite all care being taken, what can the dealer do? Since the car is registered, he can't even claim from his insurance on inventory. He has to bear the expense from his pockets. In such a case, its best to maintain transparency and let the dealer repair the car and give it to you in factory condition.

All of us here might know that no dealer will release cars without full payment. But this is not true. If you are selling to government departments, PSUs, Army etc., following are the conditions applied. All these can be found here.




Imagine a contract of a large number of cars sent over without payment. Even in case of defect, the cars would have been registered and there is no way to undo that. What happens then? But most of these is done in good faith. Couple of years ago before I joined the dealership, one govt. department had placed orders for a large number of Dzires. A bunch of dealers sent across the cars, but the payment is still pending. Lame excuses given every time - the Dept. Head got transferred, Accounts guy is on leave, etc. etc. But now, no one deals with that department without upfront payment. So unless you have a lot of business to generate, its best to approach some other dealer to get your car. After all, its a free world, and neither is the dealer bound to sell to you nor are you forced to buy from only that dealer.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I am so happy that at least one person supports me from a customer perspective

Bharath; just one point to add here. Most of the posts I see on this thread are trying to ask more questions or show you another perspective. If someone does not agree with you, it does not necessarily mean they are against you or not supporting you.

We all need critics/ opposers to make our argument stronger. None of us here is looking out for the interests of the dealer; far from it. I would say even where someone is pointing out a pitfall, they are also looking out for you.
Bhpians interest first

Of course there is the option of taking the existing procedure or trying to improve it. Whatever option you choose, I am sure you can count on this forum for support

[vishal9999]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Of course there is the option of taking the existing procedure or trying to improve it. Whatever option you choose, I am sure you can count on this forum for support

If I were the dealer ,i would have never accepted any of your conditions even verbally simply bcoz there is no trust in the relationship and i can clearly sense that this transaction would remain sour for the entire lifetime of the car. ( service, after sales, etc)

Since your demands are typical of a western customer where law prevails, in Indian scenario many things are outside the control of businesses.

I operate business on below principal and have mostly not failed with my expectations---
If the person is good --no need of a contract but if a person is bad no good contract can save you
My suggestion --have a good relationship with top person with dealership, discuss your concerns and close the transaction with mutually accepted solution.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by theexperthand

I echo the general sentiments of the thread that while we should take all reasonable measures to safeguard our interested,
I find many conditions not necessary and not contusive to build mutual trust and rapport.
--Anoop

Dear Anoop -

1) I too am flexible to accomodate payment thru DD/Cheque/RTGS/NEFT/Online booking on tata site.
2) Yes as per multiple dealers of Tata at chennai. Load is dispatched from the factory depending on number of CRM Bookings in a FIFO basis. Entry in the CRM tool confirms your wait list and nothing else.
3) They weren't comfortable, by their body language, due to the fact they are loosing a profit of 16K. I dont have any issues taking from dealer, if they are matching the price that i get online.
4) Why wouldn't i be happy with a factory car. I am sure if there is damage at factory, Tata wont ship it to dealers and secondly, it should catch the eye of the dealer PDI. If iam not happy, due to damage (the only reason),I will escalate to tata customer care / officials and get one on the double.
5) They arent agreeing for visual inspection before payment even at their yard outside city limits.
6) Why on earth would i reject a registered car unless its repainted like the Compass Fiasco? Even if damaged, I say that i will take it jolly-well & smiling but at my price. I need a 40K discount and not peanuts of 4K accessories. You (dealer) made a mistake - pay for it. Dont make customer pay for your mistake.

Originally Posted by Tapish

A couple of things Bharath:
1. You have mentioned more than a couple of times that you need 40k as compensation in case anything goes wrong - Why 40k?

40K is what will cool me down and make me take a repainted or damaged car due to dealer driver error. maybe 10K will cool some, maybe 60K will cool some. Since my car is damaged, compensation should be what i want.

If initial PDI doesnt pass, let them allocate the next car in line and let them sell this one to an unsuspecting customer. Nexon anyway has a 2 month waiting. Moreover, it should fail only if damaged in transit. If post-registration, pre-delivery PDI fails, let them compensate me by paying 40k and not show a take it or leave it attitude. This attitude was shown to me when my Friend took delivery of his paint-damaged punto thru Ramkay Velachery.

Originally Posted by blackwasp

I agree with most of your points, but let me share with you the other side of the story. Dealerships will consider deviating from their set procedures and make an exception for you only in 2 cases - 1. You are related to the owners or close friends or 2. You are a bulk purchaser.
Imagine a contract of a large number of cars sent over without payment. Even in case of defect, the cars would have been registered and there is no way to undo that. What happens then? But most of these is done in good faith. Couple of years ago before I joined the dealership, one govt. department had placed orders for a large number of Dzires. A bunch of dealers sent across the cars, but the payment is still pending. Lame excuses given every time - the Dept. Head got transferred, Accounts guy is on leave, etc. etc. But now, no one deals with that department without upfront payment. So unless you have a lot of business to generate, its best to approach some other dealer to get your car. After all, its a free world, and neither is the dealer bound to sell to you nor are you forced to buy from only that dealer.

Dealer cant survive by just selling to people with contacts with dealership. I am not loosing here. The dealer is loosing his commission on sale and his profit on 1.7 lacs of accessories and not to mention the income through service & accident repairs. If i plan a Hexa in future, he misses that one too.

I am buying from a dealer, who is ready to agree to my terms. The motto of this thread is just to warn people. Anyone willing to trust mutually and go by verbal is anyday free to buy from Tafe. In my thread, i never bad mouthed Tafe. All I am saying is to be careful.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Bharath; just one point to add here. Most of the posts I see on this thread are trying to ask more questions or show you another perspective. If someone does not agree with you, it does not necessarily mean they are against you or not supporting you.
We all need critics/ opposers to make our argument stronger. None of us here is looking out for the interests of the dealer; far from it. I would say even where someone is pointing out a pitfall, they are also looking out for you.
Bhpians interest first

Of course there is the option of taking the existing procedure or trying to improve it. Whatever option you choose, I am sure you can count on this forum for support

Absolutely - i know - I trust every BHPian in our forum. I just want to know if i go by the word or mouth and trust how to safeguard me. I am sharing it in the best interest of other BHPians.

[kiku007]

Hypothetically speaking, if a Dealer agrees to the conditions and breaks some of them, do you intend to take them to court and fight it out? Or sham them in the social media and hope for a miracle?

Do you have the time and resources to face such a situation?

Back in 2010 when I did PDI for a Chevy Spark, I found that the key had a strange note, "A/C not working". It was TVS Chevrolet, Chennai. The sales rep gave a funny reason stating that cars come that from the factory with A/C gas not filled and they are filled at the dealerships. I just smiled and asked for a different car. They were happy to oblige and got me another car from the factory. I had to wait for a couple of weeks but no dramas whatsoever.

Since the OP spoke about IT, you should also know about the deal sizes and margins of an IT project and a SINGLE Tata Nexon sale

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Hypothetically speaking, if a Dealer agrees to the conditions and breaks some of them, do you intend to take them to court and fight it out? Or sham them in the social media and hope for a miracle?

Do you have the time and resources to face such a situation?

Back in 2010 when I did PDI for a Chevy Spark, I found that the key had a strange note, "A/C not working". It was TVS Chevrolet, Chennai. The sales rep gave a funny reason stating that cars come that from the factory with A/C gas not filled and they are filled at the dealerships. I just smiled and asked for a different car. They were happy to oblige and got me another car from the factory. I had to wait for a couple of weeks but no dramas whatsoever.

Since the OP spoke about IT, you should also know about the deal sizes and margins of an IT project and a SINGLE Tata Nexon sale

Neither. Look at it this way, if they do a good delivery experience, I'll write a good review and recommend them to all friends and bhpians. They are benefit. If they don't, I'll at least spoil their name on social media and escalate to Mayank.

Simple funda - I pay the money they are asking. All i demand is a factory nexon and a fair straight deal to honor their commitment.

Coming to deal sizes, are you saying it's okay to cheat on nexon deals as margin is low but shouldn't cheat in IT software business deals as margin is high? Is it not ethical to be straight and be customer friendly irrespective of the monetary side?


I just have one simple funda. I have cash in hand. I am entitled to a factory nexon. There are Four dealers in Chennai. I played one on the other and choose one as they give the best deal. All I ask is write it on mail.

As GTO said verbal commitment holds no good in India. It's only written communication that is honored.

Concluding - i am moving to book nexon from a dealer who has agreed to give the terms on mail. I am benefit. It's TAFE who lost business at the end of the day.

[petrolhead_chn]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

.Concluding - i am moving to book nexon from a dealer who has agreed to give the terms on mail. I am benefit. It's TAFE who lost business at the end of the day.

On mail?? Sure?? Just ensue it is from a common mailbox of dealer or the sales manager or due recipients in email. What if the sales guy quits midway? The dealer would simply wash off their hands stating that is the reason they fired him and crap. Hope you get it!!!

While I do share your views and agree, would suggest you to not take even the written comms from the dealer and ease off. You just have to be at their back with a wand shamelessly if you want all your bullet points to be fired properly.

Trust me, their vocabulary/grammar in written communications will make one gag or worse it may not help you at all when in need due to inability to comprehend/paraphrase their statements.

Good luck mate!!

[rdst_1]

Not to sound rude, but I see everyone trying to bring the OP down and carry on with the 'chalta hai' attitude despite us being witness to so many horror stories on this very forum.

I, however, would like to voice my support for this initiative taken by the OP. I am pretty sure most of you guys have undertaken agreements when it comes to purchase of houses or pieces of lands. Hell, a bank will make you sign an agreement for even a small scale loan of 1L. So, I don't understand why do you guys find it difficult to comprehend that someone would like to enter into an agreement when purchasing a high ticket item like a car. The terms laid down by the OP could have very easily been negotiated by the dealer to mitigate his risks while giving enough confidence to the OP to continue with the purchase at the same dealership.
Yes, the OP might have been turned down by a dealership, but his money is at least safe till he finds a dealer willing to sell at fair terms, instead of having to run about filing cases to recover his 15L like the poor chap is having to do who paid for his Isuzu Vcross that never arrived.

At least we the people at TeamBHP should give our full support to such endeavours. Many of us would never have thought about doing detailed PDI until we read about it over here. So why can't we give a general template as well on what to get in written from a dealership so as to cover one's bases from a legal standpoint which could lead to a quick decision if a legal battle were to arise. If enough people start doing it, dealerships will have no choice but to start negotiating and signing fair agreements. In a country with weak consumer laws and a dismal track record of ethical treatment of genuine consumer issues provided proactively by companies, I think we as consumers need to become smarter and start covering our legal bases so that even the thought of cheating doesn't cross the mind of a seller.

Kudos to the OP for taking this step and I would definitely be taking a leaf out of your book when I am buying my next vehicle.

P. S. - I don't see why a proforma invoice couldn't be generated mentioning the terms of sale as agreed upon by the two parties. I have been buying stuff from sellers on Indiamart from all over India and make payment against such invoices mentioning clear details of the sale for items ranging from 1k to 1L.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Concluding - i am moving to book nexon from a dealer who has agreed to give the terms on mail. I am benefit. It's TAFE who lost business at the end of the day.

Glad to know that you got a dealer to accept your terms over an e-mail.

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Neither. Look at it this way, if they do a good delivery experience, I'll write a good review and recommend them to all friends and bhpians. They are benefit. If they don't, I'll at least spoil their name on social media and escalate to Mayank.

Great plan

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Coming to deal sizes, are you saying it's okay to cheat on nexon deals as margin is low but shouldn't cheat in IT software business deals as margin is high? Is it not ethical to be straight and be customer friendly irrespective of the monetary side?

It's called business sense. Your terms and conditions are too far-reaching and some of them are not entirely under the control of the dealer. IMHO the profit margin doesn't justify the risk (In monetary value, brand image, legal hassles etc.) being taken.

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

As GTO said verbal commitment holds no good in India. It's only written communication that is honored.

A written communication may give you some leverage in case of a dispute. Assuming that only written communication is honoured is something that I would politely disagree with based on what I've seen. Ask lenders if you will.

Originally Posted by vishal9999

I operate business on below principal and have mostly not failed with my expectations---
If the person is good --no need of a contract but if a person is bad no good contract can save you
My suggestion --have a good relationship with top person with dealership, discuss your concerns and close the transaction with mutually accepted solution.

Reality.

[scopriobharath]

All finally we got written confirmation from Concorde Guindy Chennai and booked a nexon with them.

[arunramaswamy]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

All finally we got written confirmation from Concorde Guindy Chennai and booked a nexon with them.

Awesome bharath. Glad to know that someone is willing to do business with you on your terms. How was the experience with them? Is this the one on the velacherry main road? Please do let me know your thoughts. Probably will go to them for my own car purchase. I am totally sold on Tigor, especially the upcoming sport one.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by arunramaswamy

Awesome bharath. Glad to know that someone is willing to do business with you on your terms. How was the experience with them? Is this the one on the velacherry main road? Please do let me know your thoughts. Probably will go to them for my own car purchase. I am totally sold on Tigor, especially the upcoming sport one.

Yes Arun it's the one on Velachery road behind Hyatt hotel opposite arsha vidhya mandir school.

I intetacted with Mr Arun A. He is a sales advisor for all Tata passenger vehicles. Please go to him for the best service and straight deal.

Concorde happens to be Tata's own showroom and the plant would have better control on them. The TSM team comprising of mr Shanmugam and mr Suraj advocate buying from Concorde preferably.

TAFE wasted my time and because of them my booking was delayed 15 days. Eveyday they were telling me we will get approval tonight tomorrow afternoon etc etc and finally they said we can't give in writing. If they were candid enough to tell the same on the first day, it would have dav d me 15 days booking and Tata would have got my money earlier.

[arunramaswamy]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Yes Arun it's the one on Velachery road behind Hyatt hotel opposite arsha vidhya mandir school.

I intetacted with Mr Arun A. He is a sales advisor for all Tata passenger vehicles. Please go to him for the best service and straight deal.

Concorde happens to be Tata's own showroom and the plant would have better control on them. The TSM team comprising of mr Shanmugam and mr Suraj advocate buying from Concorde preferably.

TAFE wasted my time and because of them my booking was delayed 15 days. Eveyday they were telling me we will get approval tonight tomorrow afternoon etc etc and finally they said we can't give in writing. If they were candid enough to tell the same on the first day, it would have dav d me 15 days booking and Tata would have got my money earlier.

Yes Bharath. I read not so good reviews over the internet about Tafe. But I thought it may vary on individual basis. But looks like it is the norm for Tafe. Nobody had much experience with Concorde. Thank you very much for your feedback Bharath. One big advantage for me is that Velacherry Concorde is very close to me. I stay in Adambakkam.